[PGT] New Jersey Devils at Vancouver Canucks | Nov. 01, 2022

[vancan2233]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Been saying the same since game 4 or 5 of the season..

I will never stop cheering them on, but I think its becoming evident, that they just don't have it in them...

 

And as you rightly say, sit back and enjoy the ride... wherever it may lead...

NJD was going to be a difficult win no matter how good the team was playing. Demko would of had to recapture his all star form, for any chance of a win. Bear and Stillman in bad position for their first game back. may of been better to put them in the line up for the follow game against another struggling team. 

[EmilyM]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I like Podkolzins game but it’s time to start talking about him as yet another Benning miss.

 

When you consider Boldy, Caufield and even Krebs are looking like much better picks.

 

Brackett was even pushing for Zegras but Benning was unable to move up a spot.

 

Im done with defending Bennings drafting. It was supposed to be his saving grace and it was just as abysmal as the rest of his body of work.

 

He really set this franchise back 10 years. There hasn’t been a GM that has done this much damage to a franchise.

Yeah, highlighting a GMs draft picks that made the NHL as a win is always a weird argument. It assumes another GM would've tripped over the draft stage and forgets to pick any players at all. Sure, someone else may have done worse, but they may have done better too, and that's never mentioned in the argument.

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I agree with everything you've said here.

 

And I'd consider this the "retool" route, which could very well be what management means aswell when they talk.

 

They need to add more good players to the defense, and start getting stronger/faster up front.

 

Mikeyhev & Bear look like decent steps in that direction as middle of the line-up players, but more needs to be done & hopefully we'll have more flexibility to do so this year with the cap going up.

 

And Kuzmenko was a nice add as well. 
‘I actually like the Bear deal just on the back of the Horrible Stillman deal and the Dermott deal it is starting to look like a pattern of pics for borderline NHLers. 

[Smashian Kassian]

11 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

True, never whated Miller resigned. The money saved could have be used down the road, but you lose a huge asset. Even now his contract is tradable to a team looking to add for the playoffs. 

 

16 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

I can see that argument for Boeser, I'll give you that, but they flinched too early on the Miller re-signing. He would've been monumentally easier to move in-season without the extension.

 

Yeah the Miller prioritization is looking like an error.

 

Should've signed Horvat & went into the season with Miller unsigned, but then again no one expected this level of underperformance or Miller to be so bad as a C, he wasn't last year.

 

 

If they can move Miller they should try, but if they can't they can still get use out of him as a point producer moving forward imo. It's not a Eriksson/Vlasic thing that'll sink us in the foreseeable future.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Smashian Kassian

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I like Podkolzins game but it’s time to start talking about him as yet another Benning miss.

 

When you consider Boldy, Caufield and even Krebs are looking like much better picks.

 

Brackett was even pushing for Zegras but Benning was unable to move up a spot.

 

Im done with defending Bennings drafting. It was supposed to be his saving grace and it was just as abysmal as the rest of his body of work.

 

He really set this franchise back 10 years. There hasn’t been a GM that has done this much damage to a franchise.

This is where PA is skewering the rebuild.  It's time to focus on those young guys as the dominant core that's going to take this team to the next phase and that means finding support players that compliment those young players and then letting those young guys get the important mins, for better or worse.  The current coaching staff and management group have completely failed to see that reality, imo

[BureBurrito]

21 minutes ago, stawns said:

you rely on picks and development and that's a 15 year rebuild, if things go well.

we're on year 10 of our 'retool'....and the team is currently dead last in the league.

[EmilyM]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

Yeah the Miller prioritization is looking like an error.

 

Should've signed Horvat & went into the season with Miller unsigned, but then again no one expected this level of underperformance or Miller to be so bad as a C, he wasn't last year.

 

 

If they can move Miller they should try, but if they can't they can still get use out of him as a point producer moving fwd imo. It's not an Eriksson/Vlasic thing that'll sink us in the foreseeable future.

 

True, but then again the Miller extension doesn't align with the management's vision to "build around the young core". Unless that "young core" vision is new, in which case, they went into the last offseason with no plan or a failed plan and are already pivoting.

[AV.]

25 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

1. If your trading Demko & Horvat it makes no sense to hang onto Hughes given he's a UFA at the end of his deal (4 more years). And if your not trading all of them it's not a rebuild. (Besides possibly EP b/c theirs still a possibility of an 8 yr deal) 

 

Simply; if your holding onto Pettersson, Hughes & Demko, it's a re-tool not a rebuild.

 

2. Wrong. They have 12M in capspace going into next year + Myers/Pearson/Garland/Boeser who represent 20M of movable $$$, & then 40M the following season. 

 

3. You didn't get my point. STL never tore it down, they continued to build their team & retool the mix around their core year over year over year until it came together. Like your arguing against here. 

 

4. Fair point about signing them, but it's still big contracts allocated to older support players. 

 

The Canucks badly managed their cap for years & then ran into the pandemic which crushed them for it. Regardless Hughes signed long term & they could still compete in the future with Petey at 9-10M.

 

And they do have some ELC guys though, Hoglander/Podkolzin/Rathbone are on the roster now they just haven't been impact players. 

1.  We have different definitions of a rebuild.  That's fine.
2.  You overestimate how moveable those guys actually are.  You might find a partner for Garland.  The rest of them, as it stands, would not garner any interest unless salary was moving back the other way.
3.  Again, if you actually read what I've had to say on this matter, you would realize it's not at all the same.  You're comparing a consistent playoff (which was St. Louis was) to a consistent bottom-feeder (which is Vancouver is).  The only comparisons that can be made for Vancouver are teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, and Arziona, who had to rebuild /retool their rebuilds.
4.  Pettersson will command more than 9-10M.  Regardless, that isn't really the point.  The team composition, as it is, is not good enough.  It's been proven for many seasons now.  This means additional pieces must be added, which they cannot do, due to the team being capped out from committing money to players who aren't good enough.

Edited November 2, 2022 by AV.

[Smashian Kassian]

2 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

And Kuzmenko was a nice add as well. 
‘I actually like the Bear deal just on the back of the Horrible Stillman deal and the Dermott deal it is starting to look like a pattern of pics for borderline NHLers. 

 

I actually liked Dermott too, he adds mobility we really need it's just unfortunate he's hurt. If not he'd be an asset for us on the ice & in a trade given his contract, imo.

 

I think they may have been somewhat forced into the Stillman move b/c of the injuries. I haven't minded Stillman's play, he was solid last night. Trading a 2nd sucks but maybe they could get some pick back for him in the future.

 

I get they wanted to be harder to play against but it's odd they prioritized Stillman when Rathbone needs reps. That or maybe it's all Chicago would agree too.

 

[Rackdawg]

20 minutes ago, stawns said:

Yet from the draft they have

 

Horvat

Petey

Hughes

Hogz

Podz

Demjo

Boeser

Rathbone

 

Is it really that bad? 

Yet their I last place..ya it's that bad. Lol

[Fanuck]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

I dunno, I think having that many drafted players as the core of your team is pretty good.  

It's not the amount of drafted  players we have on the roster that's my issue, it's the positions - or lackthereof. 

 

Our biggest organizational weakness is defence and we have ZERO 'blue chip' defense prospects (heck, we don't even have any 'b' level imo) coming up through the organization.  These are the most difficult players to acquire and, other than elite goaltending, likely the most important for a club at our stage of overall development. 

Even if Allvin addresses this at the next draft (and hopefully he does), any young defenceman acquired in the draft could potentially take years to fully develop (not banking on finding another 'Huggy' who could make an impact immediately) and contribute meaningful minutes to the team. 

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

NJD was going to be a difficult win no matter how good the team was playing. Demko would of had to recapture his all star form, for any chance of a win. Bear and Stillman in bad position for their first game back. may of been better to put them in the line up for the follow game against another struggling team. 

Yes I think that was discussed in another thread as well...

Agree, that they were thrown in at the deep end, and maybe slightly unfair. Especially for Baer, who really hasn't had much time with the team, and comes with his butt full of splinters...

 

The team may turn it around, and give us egg on our faces... nothing would make me happier, but if its a continuation of ending between 18-26 in the league, we are just treading water, and not really improving... 

 

Can I just say, I've been an anti tanker my entire time on these boards, and believed in retooling (or whatever its called) together with Santa, fairy godmother and the seven dwarves... I think, it's down to the lack of interest or joy of watching a tanking team. I also thought the fans going to the games would be against tanking...but it looks like was wrong.

 

Now Its NJD then its Panthers, Then it was the Oilers etc etc etc... There just seem to always be a new kid on the block taking over, and even though they may not win a cup (only 1 team each year), at least their fans has a lot more hope, than we seem to atm...

 

In the end it is, what it is.... where have I heard that before....

[Wolfgang Durst]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

It's not the amount of drafted  players we have on the roster that's my issue, it's the positions - or lackthereof. 

 

Our biggest organizational weakness is defence and we have ZERO 'blue chip' defense prospects (heck, we don't even have any 'b' level imo) coming up through the organization.  These are the most difficult players to acquire and, other than elite goaltending, likely the most important for a club at our stage of overall development. 

Even if Allvin addresses this at the next draft (and hopefully he does), any young defenceman acquired in the draft could potentially take years to fully develop (not banking on finding another 'Huggy' who could make an impact immediately) and contribute meaningful minutes to the team. 

agree 100%.

Only way to get out of jail is to trade Hughes for a top 4 D-Man.

New Jersey is the best example: they traded a left handed D-Man like Ty Smith (1st round pick) to Pittsburgh in exchange for John Marino (right handed d-Man).

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

It's not the amount of drafted  players we have on the roster that's my issue, it's the positions - or lackthereof. 

 

Our biggest organizational weakness is defence and we have ZERO 'blue chip' defense prospects (heck, we don't even have any 'b' level imo) coming up through the organization.  These are the most difficult players to acquire and, other than elite goaltending, likely the most important for a club at our stage of overall development. 

Even if Allvin addresses this at the next draft (and hopefully he does), any young defenceman acquired in the draft could potentially take years to fully develop (not banking on finding another 'Huggy' who could make an impact immediately) and contribute meaningful minutes to the team. 

I think EP2.0 is B level IMHO.  He has been very good this year. I think Myrenberg was close but now is for Boston. 
Jett Woo looks like AHL/Depth D if he continues to develop, somewhere like Breezy and Juulsen are now. 

[Alflives]

59 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

They resigned 2 of JBs core guys; 1 to above level $$ and one to a retirement deal. They then spent 4.75m is FA to pick up a nice, but redundant piece. Thye are all in on the core...they are just cute in their messaging. 

 

A true ballsy move would have been to bring in a coaching staff of their often, and made moves in offseason to make it their team. They are just much of the same, with new cliche quotes.

Would our owner allow a step back though?  Clearly we have the same philosophy across three management groups.  The owner is the one constant.  Of course, he doesn’t make trades, but he sets th3 direction.  And his philosophy is to try and get better right now, regardless of the cost to the future.  

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

It's not the amount of drafted  players we have on the roster that's my issue, it's the positions - or lackthereof. 

 

Our biggest organizational weakness is defence and we have ZERO 'blue chip' defense prospects (heck, we don't even have any 'b' level imo) coming up through the organization.  These are the most difficult players to acquire and, other than elite goaltending, likely the most important for a club at our stage of overall development. 

Even if Allvin addresses this at the next draft (and hopefully he does), any young defenceman acquired in the draft could potentially take years to fully develop (not banking on finding another 'Huggy' who could make an impact immediately) and contribute meaningful minutes to the team. 

This organization is completely brain dead. They refuse to draft RD. Klimovich is alright but that was a brutal pick. Should have been looking at defence and still should be. It's not difficult. Look for a little 'rd', indicator beside the list of draftees, and then say his name out loud in front of your peers. Maybe they can take classes or something?

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

agree 100%.

Only way to get out of jail is to trade Hughes for a top 4 D-Man.

New Jersey is the best example: they traded a left handed D-Man like Ty Smith (1st round pick) to Pittsburgh in exchange for John Marino (right handed d-Man).

Hughes is a PPG (6 in 6) and minus one.  And he plays huge minutes on a team full of guys dash 4 and worse, with a starter stopping pucks at .876 and allowing more than four per.  Oh, and Hughes has been playing sick and injured.  

[Devron]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Hughes is a PPG (6 in 6) and minus one.  And he plays huge minutes on a team full of guys dash 4 and worse, with a starter stopping pucks at .876 and allowing more than four per.  Oh, and Hughes has been playing sick and injured.  

Yup somehow people still pin it Hughes. How about actually giving the kid some support back there 

[Smashian Kassian]

6 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

True, but then again the Miller extension doesn't align with the management's vision to "build around the young core". Unless that "young core" vision is new, in which case, they went into the last offseason with no plan or a failed plan and are already pivoting.

 

Yeah that's fair. I'd think they'd like a do-over perhaps, but obviously they felt Miller could be good through the duration of Hughes/Demkos contract. 

 

I'm not as down on this situation b/c Miller is an elite player, they tend to age differently than your average older player, but it was a missed chance to open up space & get assets. 

 

[Fanuck]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I think EP2.0 is B level IMHO.  He has been very good this year. I think Myrenberg was close but now is for Boston. 
Jett Woo looks like AHL/Depth D if he continues to develop, somewhere like Breezy and Juulsen are now. 

We have very few prospects to be excited about in this organization.  Lekkerimaki maybe, but he's no guarantee at this point.

 

An organization like ours that has been that bad for that long should not have just one player (who plays a position we don't actually need at this point) as the only reinforcement/tradeable asset in the system. 

 

Benning was lauded at one point for his amateur scouting prowess, but I would like to see the actual numbers now that his tenure is done and identify if he was any meaningful level above the 'mean' for amateur scouting at all?