The current team is awful, but lets talk about something else awful!

[Ghostsof1915]

Look on the bright side.

We don't have Huberdeau for 5 years at $10.5 million.

[You Mad Bro?]

3 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Look on the bright side.

We don't have Huberdeau for 5 years at $10.5 million.

Neither does Calgary. They have him for 8. 
 

[jyu]

3 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

DRAFTING

 

Of the past 7 (SEVEN!) years, we only have 2 (TWO!) players that have made any sort of significant impact. 

 

1. Petterson

2. Hughes

 

I'm not including Podkolzin or Hoglander. From what I have seen both are low hockey IQ players whom I do not have faith in at all at becoming strong contributors to an NHL team, which as resulted in assignment to the AHL. 

 

Two players. 7 drafts. 46 players drafted. 

 

To me, this is an absolute travesty and is another major factor as to why we are in such a catastrophic position right now. But maybe this is normal when you compare it to the entire NHL, I don't know the stats. But it doesn't look good. 

 

Draft better?

 

 

Past 7 years starting from 2022?

 

So 2016, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22?

 

20 and 21, we didn't have a first.

22 is too soon.

 

So 2 impact players from 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.

 

2019 had Podz and Hogs, who are still bit of an unknown. Going to the AHL doesn't mean they won't become impact players. Mark Stone didn't become an impact player with the Sens until his draft + 5 season.

 

So really, 2 impact players in 3 drafts.

 

lol this thread is a joke right?

 

Well, I guess we should draft better in the later rounds. And don't give up 1sts in two consecutive years.

 

 

[Westcoasting]

4 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

DRAFTING

 

Of the past 7 (SEVEN!) years, we only have 2 (TWO!) players that have made any sort of significant impact. 

 

1. Petterson

2. Hughes

 

I'm not including Podkolzin or Hoglander. From what I have seen both are low hockey IQ players whom I do not have faith in at all at becoming strong contributors to an NHL team, which as resulted in assignment to the AHL. 

 

Two players. 7 drafts. 46 players drafted. 

 

To me, this is an absolute travesty and is another major factor as to why we are in such a catastrophic position right now. But maybe this is normal when you compare it to the entire NHL, I don't know the stats. But it doesn't look good. 

 

Draft better?

 

 

You know what else is awful? Women! Me and my wife walked down Robson Street on Saturday and I ended up packing four shoe boxes full of expensive things that she found…well they are shoes but holy crap she has a bunch already, ugh what to do

 

[mordekai]

I can play this stupid game as well.

Let’s pick Carolina…

Last 7 years 2 significant impact 

Necas, Svech 

maybe Jarvis who is at best average this year.

In 7 years they have 6 first rounder, 12 2nd rounders and 65 total picks

 draft better Canes or you will be good… o wait

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

3 hours ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Neither does Calgary. They have him for 8. 
 

It's honestly too terrible to believe...

[Guest]

What's with the fans writing off Hogs and Podz because they're getting sent down on this god awful team that doesn't play for each other.  We're declaring them busts now?  

[dr.naughtypants]

why is anyone still taking about Bennings drafts? it's been done to death. 

[Crimson-JH]

4 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I distinctly remember people here claiming Benning was an extremely good drafter.  They were 100% wrong then, and 100% wrong now.

Pettersson, Boeser, Demko, and Hughes… Those are good drafts by Benning

[iinatcc]

43 minutes ago, Crimson-JH said:

Pettersson, Boeser, Demko, and Hughes… Those are good drafts by Benning

4 picks in 8 years doesn't really make you a good drafter. Better than Gillis era sure and maybe decent one but that's not saying much

Though to be fair we could add McCann and Forsling in the list but then it also exposed Benning's poor evaluation of his own prospects. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by iinatcc

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

Are you saying you are fine with our last 7 years of drafting and what we have to show for it?

People need to temper expectations around picks.    The odds are available.   Also the caveat is impact players from the first round, not players we've drafted that play with us or not with us.   JB was an above average drafter based on the main metric scouts are looking for - games played - for his average draft position.   Back then.   That could change though as some of the players no longer play (JV), and aren't working out as well as predicted (Brock).    That said - based on his draft position, Brock was an excellent pick.   Only half those guys play 100 NHL games (22ish - right to the end of the second round).   

 

Where this team truly has underperformed, is finding an impact player in the later rounds.    Edler was the last guy.   And he was a third rounder. 

 

The odds are available.  1990-2010.   Those guys are all done now or mostly done so it's a viable sample size.   There is a great university study available that picks apart the first round, in segments, and does the odds for the second, third and all the rounds after combined.   

12.5% 3rd rounder plays 100 games 

12.5% all the rounds combined one guy plays 100 games.   So basically one guy, on average every 8 years is an Adam Gaudette.   Or Tryamkin.   Or Forsling 

 

Deb makes a good point(s).    Ohlund was drafted in 1994.    When did he play again?   Some of these guys haven't had enough time yet - Hogs and Podz.  

 

Of course we want more in our lineup.   Trading two firsts put OEL, Miller and Garland on the team.   Funny thing ... Miller versus a 22nd blew it out of the water right there.   Garland by himself is going to end up playing more games in five years than the average 9th overall.  

 

There's a reason why you won't find many teams that didn't pick very high in the draft for a considerable period, with a lot of EP / QHs types.   Heck TO has Mathews, Nylander, Marner and O'Reilly so four.   "impact guys" and Nylander and O'Reilly get trashed on this site all the time.  

 

We actually drafted around 7th for a four year period but picked like we drafted 3 instead during that time.    Complainers will complain.    This doesn't mean we did the right thing (trading firsts and seconds!).   

Edited December 21, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

For those that are actually interested in our draft history.  Milford was the best drafter we've ever had and it really isn't close.   Quin and Burke were ok but also had their busts.   Stajonov and Antoski, Allen etc.   Nonis had one great draft and a couple real duds.   Well documented MG six drafts were bad, only traded one first.  

 

Every year no matter where you end up in the standings, GMs are looking to add one significant roster player and hope for two.   The average is around 1.5.   As in a guy who will be Mason Raymond level or better.   5-7 year career.    It's rare that you get 3 players.   Very rare.  

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The last GM we had who drafted competently was Burke.  This is unfortunately par for the course here.

Burke had his busts and bad drafts too.   But his mental gymnastics that allowed us to draft both Sedins was every bit as good as Quin drafting Bure.   And he was connected to that draft too as Quins right hand man.   Quin asked him to find proof he'd played enough games ... his hunch played out but it was Burke who did the leg work.   Guess what Burke advised though?  "Don't draft this guy - that's a small, small body and we'd be wasting the pick - there's some good 6'4 " 230lb options we should look at instead"  paraphrased.    Quin ignored Burke's advice and did it anyways.    

 

Nonis came in and like JB, had a boffo draft.   JB lost his above average drafting, by not continuing on that path and poor talent evaluations.  

 

Edit:  I agree Burke was better.   Hands down.   As a GM we were lucky to have him.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, dr.naughtypants said:

why is anyone still taking about Bennings drafts? it's been done to death. 

Well.   It's a debate that probably won't die down soon.   It's polarizing.   Funny thing is he wasn't bad at it.   3 calder finalists in a row kind of added to that.   And really, we won't have a clear picture for another decade.    If we were talking about Burke right now,  almost a year after Nonis arrived ... what would we be saying about his drafting?   Meh probably.   Meh meh meh. 

[EddieVedder]

11 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

DRAFTING

 

Of the past 7 (SEVEN!) years, we only have 2 (TWO!) players that have made any sort of significant impact. 

 

1. Petterson

2. Hughes

 

I'm not including Podkolzin or Hoglander. From what I have seen both are low hockey IQ players whom I do not have faith in at all at becoming strong contributors to an NHL team, which as resulted in assignment to the AHL. 

 

Two players. 7 drafts. 46 players drafted. 

 

To me, this is an absolute travesty and is another major factor as to why we are in such a catastrophic position right now. But maybe this is normal when you compare it to the entire NHL, I don't know the stats. But it doesn't look good. 

 

Draft better?

 

 

Stopped reading after the low iq statement.  You must be new to hockey.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

It's just a level of incompetence that's been allowed to continue forever. It's also a level of incompetence driven by ownership, not so much the drafting but the trading of picks and lack of prospects. They keep

pushing for a retool at a stupid cost for the future. They could have easily said we need to make sure our system is stalked with prospects so when things don't go well we can have players come up and fill roles. We don't have any of that right now. Incompetence from ownership and management but I think a lot of it is on ownership for their persistence to cut corners and trying to make money without doing it properly. They sort of get what they deserve. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Canuckfanforlife82

[Warhippy]

5 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Stopped reading after the low iq statement.  You must be new to hockey.

Instead of being smug about that statement.  Why don't you refute it with facts.  I've invested a fair amount of time trying to dissect the canucks absolutely woeful drafting the last 2 decades and nothing of what that poster said about Hughes and Pettersson being our only drafted impact players is wrong

 

In the past 7 years the Canucks have drafted exactly TWO players who have been impactful.  Those are in fact Hughes and Pettersson.  Hoglander is approaching that territory but still has serious consistency issues.

 

Hell I will go one farther, since 2006; the amount of players drafted by Vancouver who have crossed the 200+ game metric considered to be a successful draft pick is 12.  3 of them were drafted in 2014 with Demko approaching the 200 game mark by next year and Hoglander as well which would bring our total to 14 total players being "successful picks" since 2006 or 17 total years at less than 1 player per draft.  I can even break it down further by reminding you that of those 12 current players 5 were picked in the top 10 with 4 more being picked in the first round meaning 4 total draft picks in 16 years being drafted outside of the first round are considered to be successful picks and that's IF Hoglander/Demko make the 200 game metric in vancouver.

 

To make it even more damning, of those 12 players.  No less than 5 of them in fact hit that 200 game metric on other teams. Those players are Grabner, Hodgson, Connauton, Forsling and McCann

 

So when you claim someone made a low IQ statement, I strongly like STRONGLY suggest you know what you're talking about because the only low iq statement made is the one I am responding to in this matter

 

Yours.

 

But then, maybe you are new to hockey

Edited December 21, 2022 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

I did the math on this in November

 

 

[erkayloomeh]

Being good at drafting doesn't mean your player in the top 10 works out. It means you found gems in the lower rounds.  

[Taphouse Canuck]

12 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

You know what else is awful? Women! Me and my wife walked down Robson Street on Saturday and I ended up packing four shoe boxes full of expensive things that she found…well they are shoes but holy crap she has a bunch already, ugh what to do

 

OMG you're married to my ex-wife!