Miller Interview on Delia Incident

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, chon derry said:

There’s a place for constructive criticism for sure. But if your not pullin your own weight then your not in a position to attempt giving it 

Here we agree.  Who on our club is “pulling their own weight” that has the character (personality) to be vocal?  After the horrible Benning offseason where he let Tanev, Marky, and Tofu walk, which of our core guys spoke up?  It was JTM with his “shocking reset” comment.  Petey and Hughes aren’t really vocal guys.  I am still thinking on what Bo is.  But we seem to have only JTM (in our core) who speaks up.  

[Steamer4GM]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:53 PM, -DLC- said:

You give him FAR too much credit. He was a lazy floater cashing in a pay cheque here....nothing more.

Very prophetic of you to describe Messier the same way you'll be describing Miller when the dust settles on his tenure here

[Steamer4GM]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:49 PM, -DLC- said:

OMG, seriously?

 

What a big fuss over nothing. This is ridiculous...he's a competitor who wants to win. He cares about his teammates and has made that clear. Good God, no one'll ever want to sign here if this is the kind of stuff we blow up.

 

The coach DID make the call but admits it was somewhat confusing. Holy hell, this is such a non story and it's kind of embarrassing that our fan base runs with it. We're always wanting to create a stir and this soap opera mentality is really too much.

 

From people tracking down GM's in supermarkets to flying planes overhead to screaming over a guy who, in the dying seconds of a close game, reacted with urgency. It's always something.

If it were just a problem with us fans being pissed about this then how does it make the panel chat on HNIC the next game as Miller further sours himself by failing to show up and contribute in any meaningful way other than sewering the team's efforts yet again?

[chon derry]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Here we agree.  Who on our club is “pulling their own weight” that has the character (personality) to be vocal?  After the horrible Benning offseason where he let Tanev, Marky, and Tofu walk, which of our core guys spoke up?  It was JTM with his “shocking reset” comment.  Petey and Hughes aren’t really vocal guys.  I am still thinking on what Bo is.  But we seem to have only JTM (in our core) who speaks up.  

Jt has all the right tools and qualifications to be That guy and I think he wants that too. But he needs to channel his anger maybe some self awareness. And a little more maturity. It looks like he’s a player that’s hard to give direction or instruction to because of his I know everything/entitlement           attitude  ,in that regard he’s his own worst enemy 

[higgyfan]

12 minutes ago, Steamer4GM said:

If it were just a problem with us fans being pissed about this then how does it make the panel chat on HNIC the next game as Miller further sours himself by failing to show up and contribute in any meaningful way other than sewering the team's efforts yet again?

That's show biz son.  HNIC rarely has something as exciting to discuss between games.  Most of the time there

panel chat is sleep inducing, so it was a great day in the life of that bunch.

[Ballisticsports.]

Hmmm,

I wonder if Delia yelled at Miller to quit dragging his ass so slow back to the bench and let a player skate for his teammates like he claims that  only matters to him 

 

[Toews]

Haven't posted in quite sometime, so please bear with me this is going to be a long one. It frankly amazes me how people can get so high/low on our players. This time last year Miller was receiving most of the praise while Petey was getting skewered just about every game for getting a significant raise and underperforming. People seemed to just forget that Petey had vastly outperformed his ELC, giving us significant value on a rookie contract. The fact that this organization could not take advantage of that value was not on Petey but our management/ownership. I think the same applies with Miller, people forget that he is still on his old contract and the extension hasn't kicked in just yet. We should give our  best players more of a grace period rather than have a 'what have you done for me lately' mentality.

But that's hard to do when the team on the ice is vastly underachieving and the die hard fans who tune in on a nightly basis have sky high expectations after nearly a decade of building. Maybe I have a different perspective because I was disenchanted with this team much earlier, right after the off-season where we lost Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom and got back nothing of value in return. I can honestly say I haven't watched nearly as many games as I did in the past because I knew that this team was just spinning its wheels, wallowing in mediocrity. But most of all I was tired of supporting an organization that did not care about putting together a team worthy of competing for a Stanley Cup. I confess that I stopped posting here because I knew that my thoughts on this team and its direction would only cause aggravation to a few posters on here who think that anyone that doesn't share their opinions isn't a "real fan". 

What does this have to do with Miller? Well I think the vast amount of the negative sentiment that surrounds him is because of this team underperforming. Its not like Miller's questionable body language, his hot-headedness, his play away from the puck is any different from years past. Its just people's tolerance of it has waned because he is underperforming and so is this team. A big part of the reason for Miller's poor +/- also has to do with our dreadful defense, and lackluster goaltending. Luke Schenn receives so much praise on this forum and he was a #7 on an actual Cup contending roster, averaging 10min a night when playing, while playing a grant total of 11 games one year and 8 games a year later in the playoffs. We have him penciled into our top 4. This team has a lot more problems, Miller is just an easy scapegoat. 

 

I am not going to excuse this incident, it was clearly a terrible look. You don't do that to a teammate especially one that makes 1/10 of what you do in salary. Miller as one of the highest paid players on the team needs to show way better leadership that he did in that moment. The interview a day later just fanned the flames of this "controversy", his response was combative when he could have easily just taken a conciliatory tone. How did he not know he wasn't going to be asked about it? Just say that you had a chat with your teammate, your emotions got the best of you in that moment and let the media know that everyone has moved on from the incident. No need for any apologies or self-flagellation, just put it a rest so that you don't give people any more fodder. Its media training 101...

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, Toews said:

Haven't posted in quite sometime, so please bear with me this is going to be a long one. It frankly amazes me how people can get so high/low on our players. This time last year Miller was receiving most of the praise while Petey was getting skewered just about every game for getting a significant raise and underperforming. People seemed to just forget that Petey had vastly outperformed his ELC, giving us significant value on a rookie contract. The fact that this organization could not take advantage of that value was not on Petey but our management/ownership. I think the same applies with Miller, people forget that he is still on his old contract and the extension hasn't kicked in just yet. We should give our  best players more of a grace period rather than have a 'what have you done for me lately' mentality.

But that's hard to do when the team on the ice is vastly underachieving and the die hard fans who tune in on a nightly basis have sky high expectations after nearly a decade of building. Maybe I have a different perspective because I was disenchanted with this team much earlier, right after the off-season where we lost Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom and got back nothing of value in return. I can honestly say I haven't watched nearly as many games as I did in the past because I knew that this team was just spinning its wheels, wallowing in mediocrity. But most of all I was tired of supporting an organization that did not care about putting together a team worthy of competing for a Stanley Cup. I confess that I stopped posting here because I knew that my thoughts on this team and its direction would only cause aggravation to a few posters on here who think that anyone that doesn't share their opinions isn't a "real fan". 

What does this have to do with Miller? Well I think the vast amount of the negative sentiment that surrounds him is because of this team underperforming. Its not like Miller's questionable body language, his hot-headedness, his play away from the puck is any different from years past. Its just people's tolerance of it has waned because he is underperforming and so is this team. A big part of the reason for Miller's poor +/- also has to do with our dreadful defense, and lackluster goaltending. Luke Schenn receives so much praise on this forum and he was a #7 on an actual Cup contending roster, averaging 10min a night when playing, while playing a grant total of 11 games one year and 8 games a year later in the playoffs. We have him penciled into our top 4. This team has a lot more problems, Miller is just an easy scapegoat. 

 

I am not going to excuse this incident, it was clearly a terrible look. You don't do that to a teammate especially one that makes 1/10 of what you do in salary. Miller as one of the highest paid players on the team needs to show way better leadership that he did in that moment. The interview a day later just fanned the flames of this "controversy", his response was combative when he could have easily just taken a conciliatory tone. How did he not know he wasn't going to be asked about it? Just say that you had a chat with your teammate, your emotions got the best of you in that moment and let the media know that everyone has moved on from the incident. No need for any apologies or self-flagellation, just put it a rest so that you don't give people any more fodder. Its media training 101...

In less than half a season he's had verbal altercations, on camera, with two teammates and the last one has a more physical tone with the stick.  I'm shocked that anyone would find that acceptable, under the best circumstances, let along these ones.

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

99 points (fact) says otherwise.  

If Demko hadn't given us Vezina caliber goaltending most games he played last season we wouldn't have been close, Miller would have just been a player reaching a high point on a team that didn't do anything 

 

Oh, wait, he was a player who reached a high point on a team that didn't do anything 

 

Demko covered a lot of warts for this club, he was last season's MVP

Edited January 2, 2023 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Except the poster you quoted would have you know, because he wasn't "Bubble Demko" (despite his active efforts last season to keep us in games that we had no business being in), he's somehow a busteroo bonsai.  

If anything both our start this season and our record since reflects just how reliant we were on Demko playing out of his mind to cover this team's defensive issues 

 

There were several games last season it took the Canucks an entire period or two to wake up, during which Demko held them in it 

 

Goaltenders are members of their team but team's that rely on top notch goaltending more often than not to even have a chance at winning are not good team's

 

We aren't a team that can afford our goaltender to have an off game more often than not, we don't have the horses to stop other teams from scoring most games and we typically win by outscoring our mistakes

 

We are not a good team 

[MikeyD]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

He didn't carry this team last year, Demko did.  And after January bo and Petey did.

Who do you think carried the team for the first half of the year?

 

Come on, are our memories really this short now? He was literally the only player (and thats including Demko) who had a good start to the season. Demko had a third of the year stretch where he was lights out. The rest of the year he was above average but not elite. Had he been elite the whole year he would have been nominated for the Vezina but he fell out of it within the final third of the year.

 

Demko was the best goalie in the league for a considerable portion of the year after a mediocre start with Green and then started hitting stride right before Green got the boot.

 

Miller was good for the majority of the year and put up consistent points the entire year. He had a few games here and there where he phoned it in like he's doing all of this year but let's not pretend like he was anything like this year. He earned his 99 points the hard way and was actually one of our better forwards defensively last year. He was +15 and that only put him behind Garland. Miller was fantastic last year pretty much the whole year and absolutely carried us until Petey and Bo showed up halfway through the season to lessen the load. 

 

[JamesB]

4 hours ago, Coconuts said:

...

 

Demko covered a lot of warts for this club, he was last season's MVP

 

3 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Who do you think carried the team for the first half of the year?

 

....

Miller was good for the majority of the year and put up consistent points the entire year. He had a few games here and there where he phoned it in like he's doing all of this year but let's not pretend like he was anything like this year. He earned his 99 points the hard way and was actually one of our better forwards defensively last year. He was +15 and that only put him behind Garland. Miller was fantastic last year pretty much the whole year and absolutely carried us until Petey and Bo showed up halfway through the season to lessen the load. 

 

Thought I would weigh in on the question of who "carried" the team last season.

 

1. I think the answer is that no one was sufficiently dominant to be called a guy who "carried" the team.

 

2. It is hard to compare goalies with skaters Demko was the top goalie in the NHL in January and was arguably the best goalie in the league for the entire middle third of the season, as suggested by @MikeyD. He wasn't bad the rest of the  time either.  He was voted the team MVP (by fans) for the season, and represented the team at the all-star game. And JR and Allvin and Boudreau and everyone else was very positive about him.  It is hard to say that anyone else was good enough to get more than co-star billing.

 

3. So what about the skaters? Miller was the best skater early but the team had a historically bad start  Looking at the season as a whole I think that best single measure of performance is probably the Evolving Hockey GAR stat (goals above replacement)  as it puts everything together -- scoring, defensive play, drawing and taking penalties, etc.  And it uses regression analysis to assign weights to different aspects of performance so it is not just someone's "best guess" as to what is important. The only real drawback is that it does not adequately adjust for quality of opposition. But I still think it is the best stat going. On this stat there were 5 guys with really good numbers: Garland, Miller, Petey, Hughes, and Horvat.

 

4. These guys were all good, but none was dominant. Hughes set an all-time franchise records for points by a D. Petey was the best guy on the team in the second half but had a slow start. Horvat was good but was injured late so reduced his ability to contribute. Miller was good all year but he did have quite a lot of good fortune -- like a lot of 2nd assist PP points.

 

Bottom line: saying Miller "carried the team" is a gross exaggeration. He did have a career year. And signing a guy to big contract after a career year is always dangerous and I think it has bitten the Canucks in the rear end this time.

Edited January 2, 2023 by JamesB

[lmm]

8 hours ago, .Naslund said:

It’s hilarious that this is even a conversation. Miller showing some fire and y’all are wishing he acted like a snowflake instead. Typical Vancouver culture. The endless overreaction to every difference in opinion and body language analysis is why we’re laughing stocks of the NHL. You think grown men want to play for a city where we overanalysis their every move? EP40 is as good as gone haha

win games,

nobody cares

lose for 10 years

everything gets magnified

 

bottom line

 

win games

[RU SERIOUS]

On 12/31/2022 at 12:22 PM, EddieVedder said:

Dumb move by miller. No ifs ands or buts about it.  If you cant see that then youre as clueless as he is.

In any non professional sport, you can bet your behind that any coach on the planet would at least suspend maybe even boot a player off a team for something like what Miller did.   That is the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen a hockey player do in decades and reason enough (amongst others) to ensure he is dispossed off this team ASAP before his new contract and NTC kicks in next season.    We've all seen enough of his toxic nature by now to know it is getting worse and worse year after year and just imagine what an cranky and angry old man he'll be at the end of the contract at the begining of the next decade in the 2030's when he's nearly 40 years old.

Edited January 2, 2023 by RU SERIOUS
typo

[RU SERIOUS]

Edited January 2, 2023 by RU SERIOUS

[Gawdzukes]

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Who do you think carried the team for the first half of the year?

 

Come on, are our memories really this short now? He was literally the only player (and thats including Demko) who had a good start to the season. Demko had a third of the year stretch where he was lights out. The rest of the year he was above average but not elite. Had he been elite the whole year he would have been nominated for the Vezina but he fell out of it within the final third of the year.

 

Demko was the best goalie in the league for a considerable portion of the year after a mediocre start with Green and then started hitting stride right before Green got the boot.

 

Miller was good for the majority of the year and put up consistent points the entire year. He had a few games here and there where he phoned it in like he's doing all of this year but let's not pretend like he was anything like this year. He earned his 99 points the hard way and was actually one of our better forwards defensively last year. He was +15 and that only put him behind Garland. Miller was fantastic last year pretty much the whole year and absolutely carried us until Petey and Bo showed up halfway through the season to lessen the load. 

 

You mean while we were having the worst start in history? C'mon now, he scored a bunch of points playing in every situation and doing the same weak ass non responsible crap he does now. Big whoop.

 

He actually visually tightened up the last half to his credit but as we see now that wasn't sustainable for him. This guy is just a huge anchor that will hurt us for 7.5 more years.

[Alflives]

4 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

In any non professional sport, you can bet your behind that any coach on the planet would at least suspend maybe even boot a player off a team for something like what Miller did.   That is the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen a hockey player do in decades and reason enough (amongst others) to ensure he is dispossed off this team ASAP before his new contract and NTC kicks in next season.    We've all seen enough of his toxic nature by now to know it is getting worse and worse year after year and just imagine what an cranky and angry old man he'll be at the end of the contract at the begining of the next decade in the 2030's when he's nearly 40 years old.

Bieksa disagrees with your assessment.  

[chon derry]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Bieksa disagrees with your assessment.  

Albeit partially you keep forgetting to mention how he can’t DEFEND millers lameness 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, chon derry said:

Albeit partially you keep forgetting to mention how he can’t DEFEND millers lameness 

Because that’s not what this thread is about.  

[chon derry]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Because that’s not what this thread is about.  

I disagree  his behind the net crap isn’t warranted given his lame defensive side of his game. The 2 things aren’t separatly exclusive. They are relative. He’s in no position to be critical and doubling down by saying how he doesn’t care At all. That’s pretty apparent. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by chon derry