[PGT] Colorado Avalanche at Vancouver Canucks | Jan. 20, 2023

[Barnstorm]

5 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Rrrrright. After decades in the business, Stanley cups, JR has no clue what he’s doing anymore. Sure. You really actually believe that or is it just impatience taking hold?
 

 

He’s going senile. It happens everyday to people his age. One year and he’s already hated province wide by fans. Players on both team, including our franchise guy, made it clear tonight post game how bad this is . Turf him. 

I’ve been waiting 52 years and will continue waiting. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with my patience.

[Dazzle]

2 minutes ago, Maginator said:

Miller scored 99 points last season. Horvats career high was what? 60?

 

I think fans have a serious case of hindsight 20/20 here. Signing Miller first was a no brainer in my eyes.

 

Besides we've done nothing but lose with Horvat as our leader.

Miller brings nothing else except offense. Horvat does everything else better, EXCEPT the offense.

 

Investing 8M for a guy whose defensive game was suspect, even from last season... was a very poor decision. I had been very much against re-signing Miller last year. It was, as you say, a no-brainer for me to trade Miller.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Just now, Maginator said:

Miller scored 99 points last season. Horvats career high was what? 60?

 

I think fans have a serious case of hindsight 20/20 here. Signing Miller first was a no brainer in my eyes.

Signing Miller was the logical move... unless there was a personality issue there which we outside the organization couldn't see but which is now showing up... and which they should have spotted.

 

Signing Horvat should have been doable this year... except they didn't shed enough CAP from existing players... meanwhile signing Mikheyev.

 

If this management ends up losing both Horvat and Kuzmenko then it will be a major disaster... I am not sure we are going to get back for Horvat what we need... we'll get something... but whether it is what we need.... a young, big tough competent #2 D to play with Hughes, is another question.

[DeNiro]

A good chance to move top 5 tomorrow!

 

Sharks play the Blue Jackets.

 

Keep that tank rolling!

[Mustard Tiger]

35 minutes ago, Zerofaith said:

Yeah it’s tough like you say it’s mental health night and repeated negative environment can be difficult, however he could’ve stepped  up as a supposed leader/vet and say something like  “we just haven’t been good enough this year” instead he says “…tonight it finally showed” 

 

like no buddy the team has been garbage from the start of the season and you have not improved in ANY area. I’m fact maybe gotten worse everywhere. 
 

zero leadership 

Did you get a chance to watch the interview in full? You can feel the emotion. I get what your saying. We only make bad moves but all that aside I do feel for him and everyone else in that room for the environment they are stuck in. Hard to improve much I'd imagine 

[grandmaster]

I really hope BB stays for another month. A new coach bump could ruin our drafting position. There is no point since playoffs are out of reach. Let this chaotic team continue….

[Barnstorm]

2 minutes ago, RWJC said:

By who?!?!?

You can blame the players for that. 
They were able to play hockey last season when Bruce came in. They have the talent, they just don’t have the combined character as a team. The players will have gotten Bruce fired.

Ummm…goaltending? 
Uhhhhh…aging defence?
Not last years  team at all.

[J-23]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

I really hope BB stays for another month. A new coach bump could ruin our drafting position. There is no point since playoffs are out of reach. Let this chaotic team continue….

Sounds like he is done after tomorrow, win or lose

[FaninMex]

58 minutes ago, Pickly said:

Just like Benning was never the issue. Right?

You all have to get over Benning. A couple of trades instead of re-signing Miller and Boeser and the team would be completely different. Yes, Benning had his problems but this Management, esp JR, talked about all the things the team needed to do and chose to do nothing. The current management has shot themselves in the foot and are in the process of blaming everyone else. I bet this management sinks further into the mire when nobody in the league offers them fair value. The lack of anything has sunk the team for the next 5-10 years.

Edited January 21, 2023 by FaninMex

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Miller's a better player than Horvat. And 8M is a more fair deal for Miller than Horvat. 

You're kidding me.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-wrong-player-extend-horvat-miller/

Canucks Chose Wrong Player to Extend Between Horvat & Miller

Horvat Brings More to the Team Than Miller

Horvat and Miller have been two of the Canucks top players over the past few seasons. However, Horvat matches his goal-scoring ability and brings a bit more to the club in other parts of the game. Although Miller had an impressive season in points last year, Horvat scored one less goal than him in 10 fewer games. The captain was on pace for 36 goals after heating up near the end of the 2021-22 season. Additionally, Horvat has nine more goals and three more points than Miller this season.

 

Aside from the offensive stats, Horvat has value as a centre. Miller started the season at centre, but he and the team struggled. Although head coach Bruce Boudreau believed Miller should play centre, the forward has proven he can’t take on the defensive responsibilities.

 

Miller’s advanced analytics prove the difference between him and Horvat at the position. At centre and without the captain, the 29-year-old posted a Corsi for % (CF%) of 43.48, an expected goals for % (xGF%) of 27.10 and a goals for % of 25 (GF%). Meanwhile, when Miller is on Horvat’s wing, those numbers spike up to 52.51 CF%, 54.62 xGF% and 56.25 GF%. Therefore, the team struggles with Miller at centre as his line gives up more scoring opportunities than they generate. Meanwhile, when playing on the wing with Horvat, his line creates more scoring opportunities than they give up.

Miller’s numbers take a hit when he plays centre since the position requires players to carry more defensive responsibility, and he tends to struggle in the defensive end. Horvat may not be a Selke Trophy nominee, but the Canucks don’t suffer with him playing in the middle. Additionally, he is the only centre that has taken over 100 draws to post a face-off win percentage above 50% (57.7%).

Additionally, Horvat has an advantage in terms of age as he is two years younger than Miller. Therefore, had the Canucks held off extending Miller and signed Horvat to the same contract, he would be 35 by the end of the contract. Instead, the Canucks will have Miller signed at an AAV of $8 million until he is 37. 

Horvat’s Leadership

Horvat hasn’t been the captain of the Canucks for long but has shown he is a good leader. He was named the 14th captain in organization history at the start of the 2019-20 season. Horvat first stepped up in the 2020 Playoffs, leading the Canucks with 10 goals in 17 games. Additionally, during the team’s playoff push in the final months of the 2021-22 season, he scored nine goals in 12 games before an injury held him out for the season. He was also helpful when the team fired head coach Travis Green and brought in Boudreau last season (from ‘Canucks notebook: Bo Horvat’s hustle, skill, leadership lauded by coach Boudreau,’ The Province, January 11, 2022). 

 

Read that link.

 

It blows my mind that YOU think Miller is more valuable than Horvat. My god.

[DSVII]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Miller brings nothing else except offense. Horvat does everything else better, EXCEPT the offense.

 

Investing 8M for a guy whose defensive game was suspect, even from last season... was a very poor decision. I had been very much against re-signing Miller last year. It was, as you say, a no-brainer for me to trade Miller.

Mhm. I know we disagree on a lot of things. This isn't one of them.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by DSVII

[chon derry]

8 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Miller brings nothing else except offense. Horvat does everything else better, EXCEPT the offense.

 

Investing 8M for a guy whose defensive game was suspect, even from last season... was a very poor decision. I had been very much against re-signing Miller last year. It was, as you say, a no-brainer for me to trade Miller.

Not to mention horvats whole career points is more consistent than millers. Horvats last 3 seasons trajectory went up leading to this season  and it’s something Rutherford overlooked. While the same timeframe miller was all over the map. Buts it’s all for not because he low balled him anyhow. This old f..k messed everything up in 1.5 years. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by chon derry

[Zerofaith]

Just now, Mustard Tiger said:

Did you get a chance to watch the interview in full? You can feel the emotion. I get what your saying. We only make bad moves but all that aside I do feel for him and everyone else in that room for the environment they are stuck in. Hard to improve much I'd imagine 

No I didn’t . In fact I decided not to even watch BB pregame cause I would’ve been fuming even more about the state of things. 
 

Believe me I get what you’re saying, but TM is going home still a millionaire I’m sure he won’t be losing any sleep 

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, chon derry said:

If it were an actual deliberate management tank scheme I’d agree with you  but it’s not. Jr has mishandled the team starting with miller and ending with losing horvat because of it.  Publicly throwing the team under the bus accomplished what?  Devalued any potential tradable players worth?  Your right though change is needed. Rutherford has to go.!!!

What did JR say when he first came in about this club. He targeted its culture and leadership, remember?

 

Why the f**k is this all on him. The players’ play is what values/devalues them. BB6 has been given ample chance. You gonna blame the coaches for his performance. What about Bo…contract year, somehow eclipses the top talent in the league and shows what he can…when money counts.

 

wake up guys. The accountability is on the players. They aren’t getting it done. Again, JR has given a year to a roster to prove something and they failed collectively. This bullshit now is because this team can’t play hockey to save themselves. Had we be going into the New Year with a winning record and at the pace of last season with a legit, non wildcard playoff spot in our clutches, you think Bruce is still on the hot seat? 
I don’t.
 

This roster of professionals, yes some of it compiled by JR/PA, has not proven they belong together any further. No need to candy coat what every other GM sees with this club and why we can’t trade players…because we have a truly mid roster with only a few key pieces that we need to keep for the future.

and no one wants our junk.

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

[BC_Hawk]

1 minute ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Signing Miller was the logical move... unless there was a personality issue there which we outside the organization couldn't see but which is now showing up... and which they should have spotted.

 

Signing Horvat should have been doable this year... except they didn't shed enough CAP from existing players... meanwhile signing Mikheyev.

 

If this management ends up losing both Horvat and Kuzmenko then it will be a major disaster... I am not sure we are going to get back for Horvat what we need... we'll get something... but whether it is what we need.... a young, big tough competent #2 D to play with Hughes, is another question.

Why would Kuz want to sign here? Traded or not, he can hit FA, cash in, and go to a competent winning team.

 

I have no problem with the rebuild versus retool, but have some class and do things right. If rebuild was the plan, they should have started jettisoning players for value and acquiring draft capital, prospects, and cap space last year. All JR/PA have managed to do is lock in players to untradable contracts, blow available cap, and erode any moral/ethical respect the the team had. Listen to Cogliano’s interview; that is how the organization is perceived by players league wide. Good luck signing FAs or convincing your “core” to stick around.

[Quint]

Dunno what you guys are on about but Horvat has 49 points this season and Miller has 40 in the same number of games. Seems Horvat does everything better, including offense.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Quint
stupid autocorrect

[RWJC]

8 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

He’s going senile. It happens everyday to people his age. One year and he’s already hated province wide by fans. Players on both team, including our franchise guy, made it clear tonight post game how bad this is . Turf him. 

I’ve been waiting 52 years and will continue waiting. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with my patience.

Well let’s just see what this team looks like next preseason, yeah? Could be vastly improved and set up with a future. I think a little more time is needed to see what comes of all this.

[Dazzle]

3 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Mhm. I know we disagree on a lot of things. This isn't one of them.

 

Yes, we do disagree on many things.

 

To be clear, I love the Canucks. I want them to succeed, regardless of who is in charge of management. I want to see a Stanley Cup very badly just as much as anyone. We deserve one. We just have crappy people in charge of running this team.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

6 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

He’s going senile. It happens everyday to people his age. One year and he’s already hated province wide by fans. Players on both team, including our franchise guy, made it clear tonight post game how bad this is . Turf him. 

I’ve been waiting 52 years and will continue waiting. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with my patience.

People forget what was said when he was first hired on. If you listened, the team had good pieces. Was too reliant on goaltending and needed to get structured play, defensively responsible coaching. It was said creating cap flexibility was needed.

 

JR wasn't wrong. He's said the same thing throughout and now more changes are coming.

 

Most people last offseason wanted Miller signed and also thought Bo would get done at a much lower cap number then is talked about here.