Jim Benning

[spook007]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Willie Desjardins & Travis Green.

Yep, you can find a lot that could have been a lot better, but that still doesn't change the fact he picked Petey....

 

Big mistake in extending Green and Baumer...

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep, you can find a lot that could have been a lot better, but that still doesn't change the fact he picked Petey....

 

Big mistake in extending Green and Baumer...

 

I should've added even though GM's arent' in the habit of getting involved in later round picks (relying more on the scouting reports given time constraints) but I would think Mike GIllis had to have seen some Vancouver Giants games at Pacific Col.  He has to take some "credit" for this miss imho.

 

Yeah GM's *should* get the credit (or debit heh) for 1st round selections.

Edited February 21, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep, you can find a lot that could have been a lot better, but that still doesn't change the fact he picked Petey....

 

Big mistake in extending Green and Baumer...

 

And just to add to this, any GM could have done things better, whether that's a GM for our team, for another NHL team, or for a team in another sport entirely.

 

Thinking out loud, I was going to say something to the likes of comparing GMs should be about what they started with and where they ended up, but that's probably unfair to GMs as most GMs get fired. lol

[lmm]

5 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep, you can find a lot that could have been a lot better, but that still doesn't change the fact he picked Petey....

 

Big mistake in extending Green and Baumer...

 

still laughing at the "Green will grow with the team" fans

and even funnier are the "Green is a good coach now, while the team is young, but will need to be replaced when the team starts winning" set

I wonder where any of these NHL players would be if they had bad coaching their entire careers?

 

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I should've added even though GM's arent' in the habit of getting involved in later round picks (relying more on the scouting reports given time constraints) but I would think Mike GIllis had to have seen some Vancouver Giants games at Pacific Col.  He has to take some "credit" for this miss imho.

 

Yeah GM's *should* get the credit (or debit heh) for 1st round selections.

I don't know. I feel like different teams seem to do things differently. Some GM's seem to really have their pick while others seem to rely more on scouting? I would imagine a later 1st round pick might also be different than a top 10 pick in how things are done, or even if a team has 2 1st round picks they might each be done differently.

 

Perhaps it's more about the onus being on the GM and what decision they make, whether it's their choice or they rely on the scouts, but perhaps I'm getting too technical as well. Ah lovely midday musings.

[combover]

For how bad we've been we should be near the top of the list.

drafting wasn’t great under Benning hes responsible for the worst top 5 pick in franchise history. 
 

and out side the top 2  rounds he was a miserable failure 

 

out depth and our farm and our prospects are all the proof one should need to see what a total turd he was.

 

it would be very hard to find a GM that could do a worse job than Jb did over the last decade given all  the resources he had.

 

what’s more baffling is that people still try to defend him.
 

[lmm]

6 minutes ago, The Lock said:

And just to add to this, any GM could have done things better, whether that's a GM for our team, for another NHL team, or for a team in another sport entirely.

 

Thinking out loud, I was going to say something to the likes of comparing GMs should be about what they started with and where they ended up, but that's probably unfair to GMs as most GMs get fired. lol

is that statistically true?

I feel like many GMs of winning teams move up the ladder, rather than out the door

[The Lock]

7 minutes ago, lmm said:

is that statistically true?

I feel like many GMs of winning teams move up the ladder, rather than out the door

I'm fairly confident it is without actually going in an looking at the statistics just based on how often GM's come and go. Also, keep in mind, often times the reason a GM goes is because the team isn't doing what is desired, whether that's missing the playoffs, not winning playoff rounds, etc. A GM could also have a winning record, and then have a couple of bad seasons and end up having to leave because of that.

 

As far as "moving up the ladder" goes, I don't know if I quite understand what you mean here. Do you mean internally within the same team or do you mean in terms of reputation and getting jobs elsewhere? Gillis for example hasn't exactly been a GM since being here and he has reportedly tried to become a GM without success despite being the most "winningest GM" when he was with us. This goes to show there's more than just winning that makes a good GM and looks can perhaps be deceiving?

Edited February 21, 2023 by The Lock

[Fred65]

10 hours ago, lmm said:

So what happens if JR quits, like has been rumoured?

then we have another rookie GM working under Aquaman

You are lumping JR and PA as one being

things were different when it was Linden and Benning

Benning's first summer he traded Kesler and Garrison for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd

then promptly wasted the 2nd and 3rd, but did draft McCann, Demko, Tree and Forsling, also wasting his first 1st

It was still his best summer overall

 

now what happens if Jim does quit and Aqua offers PA the presidency with strings attached?

we could be right back where we were when Linden left

It's not that far fetched

Well it seems simple to me, you find a JR replacement. Any number of teams have executives similar to JR

[AnthonyG]

14 minutes ago, combover said:

For how bad we've been we should be near the top of the list.

drafting wasn’t great under Benning hes responsible for the worst top 5 pick in franchise history. 
 

and out side the top 2  rounds he was a miserable failure 

 

out depth and our farm and our prospects are all the proof one should need to see what a total turd he was.

 

it would be very hard to find a GM that could do a worse job than Jb did over the last decade given all  the resources he had.

 

what’s more baffling is that people still try to defend him.
 

 

educate yourself.

[lmm]

6 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I'm fairly confident it is without actually going in an looking at the statistics just based on how often GM's come and go. Also, keep in mind, often times the reason a GM goes is because the team isn't doing what is desired, whether that's missing the playoffs, not winning playoff rounds, etc. A GM could also have a winning record, and then have a couple of bad seasons and end up having to leave because of that.

 

As far as "moving up the ladder" goes, I don't know if I quite understand what you mean here. Do you mean internally within the same team or do you mean in terms of reputation and getting jobs elsewhere? Gillis for example hasn't exactly been a GM since being here and he has reportedly tried to become a GM without success despite being the most "winningest GM" when he was with us. This goes to show there's more than just winning that makes a good GM and looks can perhaps be deceiving?

I think Vancouver is not the best team to use as the medium

GMs also double as the President in Vancouver

Vancouver has a penchant for sweeping out the whole lot from President down to stick boy, well not stick boy cuz the stick boy is an Aquellini

also bad teams like Arizona, Ottawa, Buffalo sweep out the GM more often than good teams

Slats has never been fired, Steve Y moved from Tampa to Detroit without getting fired, I don't think David Poile has been fired, George MacPhee, technicaslly not fired by Washington, but contract not renewed (splitting hairs) but I believe he moved from GM to president in Vegas

 San Jose had one GM for 19 years and Doug WIlson stepped down for health reasons (not mental health)

Lou Lammoriello has never been fired but is GM of his 3rd team

[lmm]

21 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Well it seems simple to me, you find a JR replacement. Any number of teams have executives similar to JR

I think you are missing my point Fred

 

I am not in a position to find a newer JR

but Aqua might just do what he has done before and promote PA (with the caveat that he, Aqua, gets to pull the string)

or

the new Prez might want to "bring in his own guy"

who wants to "bring in his own guy"

who wants to "bring in his own guy"

 and the whole sad story repeats itself

we could have a whole new staff (except for Ron Delorme, that guy could survive Armageddon) by 2024

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

I think Vancouver is not the best team to use as the medium

GMs also double as the President in Vancouver

Vancouver has a penchant for sweeping out the whole lot from President down to stick boy, well not stick boy cuz the stick boy is an Aquellini

also bad teams like Arizona, Ottawa, Buffalo sweep out the GM more often than good teams

Slats has never been fired, Steve Y moved from Tampa to Detroit without getting fired, I don't think David Poile has been fired, George MacPhee, technicaslly not fired by Washington, but contract not renewed (splitting hairs) but I believe he moved from GM to president in Vegas

 San Jose had one GM for 19 years and Doug WIlson stepped down for health reasons (not mental health)

Lou Lammoriello has never been fired but is GM of his 3rd team

The thing is, you're only really focusing on the GMs that have stayed in power. Poile is very much the exception to the rule. He's literally the only GM Nashville's ever had. To say that's rare when you consider how long that has been is an understatement.

 

If you want examples of GMs winning and not being on that team anymore I can give you examples outside of the Canucks:

Murray (ANA), although there's controversy there but still lol

Maloney (ARI), the only time Arizona has ever made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs

Chiarelli (BOS), won the stanley cup (unfortunately)

Sutter (CAL), was a GM while being a coach, made it to the SCF though

Bowman (CHI), won multiple Stanley cups

 

This is just going through the start of teams in alphabetical order and I bet you almost every team (obviously not Nashville thus almost) has at least one GM with a winning record that was fired later on.

 

Of course, teams like Arizona and Buffalo sweep out GMs more, but that's just more GMs that were fired which really does add to my point and I don't think should be ignored.

[Fred65]

3 minutes ago, lmm said:

I think you are missing my point Fred

 

I am not in a position to find a newer JR

but Aqua might just do what he has done before and promote PA (with the caveat that he, Aqua, gets to pull the string)

or

the new Prez might want to "bring in his own guy"

who wants to "bring in his own guy"

who wants to "bring in his own guy"

 and the whole sad story repeats itself

we could have a whole new staff (except for Ron Delorme, that guy could survive Armageddon) by 2024

If Aquaman would promote PA it might well lead to him being  involuntarily committed to a hospital. It would be IMHO the last straw for many fans. Indeed it might result in the movement of the Canucks else where. A catastrophe of epic proportions

[lmm]

3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

If Aquaman would promote PA it might well lead to him being  involuntarily committed to a hospital. It would be IMHO the last straw for many fans. Indeed it might result in the movement of the Canucks else where. A catastrophe of epic proportions

so you are saying there's a chance

(insert jim carey meme here)

[spook007]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

And just to add to this, any GM could have done things better, whether that's a GM for our team, for another NHL team, or for a team in another sport entirely.

 

Thinking out loud, I was going to say something to the likes of comparing GMs should be about what they started with and where they ended up, but that's probably unfair to GMs as most GMs get fired. lol

It well known, its almost as certain as taxes, that GMs gets canned at some stage...

 

Agree, that comparing it very hard, as what did they have to start with, what did they leave at the end, did their players perform to expectation, did draft picks live up expectation etc etc etc.... GMs do NOT have a crystal ball, and while some definitely have a better plan than others, there are lots of unpredictables in play, so even the best can come a cropper.... (not saying JB was the best  ).

And then there is the unknown of, how much does the owner dictate, what happens next... If he is very 'engaged' the GM could end up being a GM only by title....

[The Lock]

Just now, spook007 said:

It well known, its almost as certain as taxes, that GMs gets canned at some stage...

 

Agree, that comparing it very hard, as what did they have to start with, what did they leave at the end, did their players perform to expectation, did draft picks live up expectation etc etc etc.... GMs do NOT have a crystal ball, and while some definitely have a better plan than others, there are lots of unpredictables in play, so even the best can come a cropper.... (not saying JB was the best  ).

And then there is the unknown of, how much does the owner dictate, what happens next... If he is very 'engaged' the GM could end up being a GM only by title....

Agreed. I'm going to tag @lmm to what I'm about to say as well as I think it's relevant to what we've been talking about.

 

This league isn't about "what have you done for me overall". This league is about "what have you done for me the past year or 2". Good GMs and bad GMs both lose their shelf-life eventually. Sure, there are exceptions, but that's the thing: they are exceptions.

 

There's also GMs that will get job after job after job due to reputation which I think does align to what lmm is saying, it just doesn't happen to be with the same team. Usually, it's a team who wants a proven GM to come in rather than a new GM. If these GMs kept their jobs, they wouldn't exactly be available to hire now would they?

[spook007]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

still laughing at the "Green will grow with the team" fans

and even funnier are the "Green is a good coach now, while the team is young, but will need to be replaced when the team starts winning" set

I wonder where any of these NHL players would be if they had bad coaching their entire careers?

 

Yeah it didn't work, withy neither Willie nor Green.

Kind of wonder, if this was all down to bad coaching, or in part down to poor team building. Willie did get the team to the playoffs (poor performance v Flames). The roster the year after was done. Going through the roster makes one realise how poor it really was...

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

The credit for his attention goes to Hammerstrōm, and I don't have an issue with that.

 

However, no mater how you cut or slice it, Benning called out Petey's name at the draft. Its as simple as that....

 

Benning had a lot of faults, but lets not change/forget history, just to make him look worse, than he was...

Well, the Delorme bit was bad and should have been alarming for the rest of the fans.

 

Could Benning really make it worse?  
Do you have any example of worse GM regardin the whole organisation?

Souting is only one bit.

[combover]

 

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

 

educate yourself.

 Hahahaha 

So where are all our picks after the third round from 2013- 2020 ?

should we have atleast ONE  nhl regular drafted by us after the third round on our team.

how bout those prized collage and university ufa  signings nope huh. 

 

we don’t have any home grown  nhl regulars after the third round 

on our roster.geez in fact right now we don’t even have any second rounders playing!!!!
 Guys from 2014-2019 should be filling out depth positions bottom- middle six  and maybe a diamond ( garland 5th round 2015 yotes) 

we currently have 5 drafted players on our roster 

hughes boeser ep podz and silvos (and he won’t be staying) 

educate myself lol and your defending that hahahahahahaha 

8 years in the toilet and that what you’d call “good drafting” 

 

Facts are facts and this list is damming
No matter how you spin it or make excuses for a miserable failure.  It’s like our prospect pool isn’t proof enough of how much Jb sucked. 
 

but but but it was Gillis fault…. Lolololololololololol

Edited February 21, 2023 by combover