Alflives Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, Fred65 said: You're aware ( I assume of the many additions hemade to the roster in cluding adding some muscle for the play-offs ) so If you're unwwillingto accept the likes of Erhoff and the huge role he played sorry to say but that's on you Erhoff, Hamhuis, Malholtra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, The Lock said: It's a question. What does someone being both President and GM have to do with whether someone's good at being a GM? Are you going to answer? Do you even have an answer? None that will satisfy you for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fred65 said: You're aware ( I assume of the many additions hemade to the roster in cluding adding some muscle for the play-offs ) so If you're unwwillingto accept the likes of Erhoff and the huge role he played sorry to say but that's on you I already addressed Ehrhoff in a previous post here. That was Gillis' one big move before 2011. So then do we put trading for Miller as the same thing for Benning? Do we put trading for Luongo the same thing for the Nonis? Do we then put Burke drafting the Sedins the same thing for Burke? Does 1 trade make Gillis better than everyone else? Edited to fix an error Edited February 20, 2023 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Erhoff, Hamhuis, Malholtra. Not bad eh??? add in LaPierre Rome Tanev and heck he even aquired Markstrom and of course drafted Horvat. Not bad for the fooll you make him out to be. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Fred65 said: None that will satisfy you for sure I'd be satisfied if you actually gave me a legitimate full on analysis of Gillis' time here as to why he's a genius while telling me why he's better than everyone else. Don't cherry pick facts stating just things like Ehrhoff, give me an actually solid reasoning behind all of this. Picture me as someone who is on the fence. What puts trading Ehrhoff above trading for Luongo, or drafting the Sedins or Edler, or trading for Miller? Also, keep in mind we already had a good team before Ehrhoff. I want reasoning, not cherry picking ideas while ignoring situations. Edited February 20, 2023 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Fred65 said: Not bad eh??? add in LaPierre Rome Tanev and heck he even aquired Markstrom and of course drafted Horvat. Not bad for the fooll you make him out to be. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink LOL Yup. After 2012 Gillis wanted to rebuild and our owner said no. Then the mess followed in 2013 and the decade of Benning after. Gillis could have kept his trap shut (publicly) and he’d be working as a GM fast after that. But he spoke out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said: A top d man is IDEALLY acquired in the draft vs the expensive route of FA or trades. Any method is a gamble but in the draft, it is only costing the team a lottery ticket, instead of asset(s) and cap space. LE 2.0 still has the skill and experience to be a decent player but his mental make up, seems to be too fragile to work through things and the hiring of Tocchet just adds to the drama. I really hope they can trade him, even if it means they retain a good chunk of his retirement deal. Instead of buying him out and keeping him in the books for a lot longer. Just like LE, he knows his salary makes him target and he should had realized it when he signed that deal. Good point on the Sedins vouching for OEL cause I still remember that interview on the radio with one of the Sedins, trying really hard to sell the trade. The OEL trade was OBVIOUSLY A BAD TRADE FROM THE START - VERY MUCH LIKE THE LE SIGNING cause both carried too much terms at a high cost for two players that are aging and mentally soft. Also, both transactions had something to do with the Sedins and I really hope they would stop putting their names on any player in the future, unless one of them becomes the GM. As for JB, Francesco should had hired a PoHO that can work with JB cause JB seems to be the type that functions better as an assistant; and I do wonder how much of the blame or credit should be given to AGM Weisbrod ? Anyways, the blame for everything goes back to Francesco for handcuffing his FO's to constantly chase the MEDIOCRE middle - FOR SHORT TERM PROFITS. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255 This was probably the biggest issue all along... He needed someone better than Linden as a PoHo... He was left to swim with way too many rookies in all positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Timråfan said: In what way? Signed Boeser to an immovable contract Signed Miller to and anchor contract traded away the 2023 second rebuilt the 4th line but forgot to add snarl came up negative in coaching suspect 1st round pick ( I don't write guys off in year 1, but not looking great) Edited February 20, 2023 by lmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, AnthonyG said: Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, McCann, Virtanen, Hoglander and Podz in the minors. You happy now? Your prospect pool doesnt look like sh*t but your NHL team is absolute wet dog sh*t Demko and maybe Silovs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, lmm said: Signed Boeser to an immovable contract Signed Miller to and anchor contract traded away the 2023 second rebuilt the 4th line but forgot to add snarl came up negative in coaching I don't know. I'm up in the air at this point as things could turn around over time as well. It's funny actually because I don't really feel attachments to former GMs at this point and I think it helps me to compare GM's better. However, when it comes to current GM's, I tend to lean on the side of caution with my emotions. That being said JR and PA have certainly haven't given me reason to have faith but, like I said, that could change, so I'm just going to see what happens at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, AnthonyG said: That is 10 years of work minimum to rebuild the state of this franchise in 2014 and without a generational talent like a McDavid or Matthews, you’re hoping it only takes 10 years. What should have happen in 2014=2015ish was a total clear of the decks, and sink to the bottom for a couple of years at least... A McD, Draiseitl or Matthews would have looked good in a Canucks Uniform. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Fred65 said: No, Gillis moved to academia, teaching Law at U Vic. This man was no ones fool, only the fans that thought they new better. A gifted hockey player, agent, Prof of Law and currently worrking for the NHLPA. I refuse to list all his accomplishment they're too many but seemingly beyond the grasp of detractors. Well doesn't look like he was offered another gig, so something obviously wasn't right. He did almost bring us the holy grail, and one can only wonder if FA had said ok, when both Gillis and Torts said they needed a clear out, where we would have been today... The problem seems to be laying with the owners... squarely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, spook007 said: What should have happen in 2014=2015ish was a total clear of the decks, and sink to the bottom for a couple of years at least... A McD, Draiseitl or Matthews would have looked good in a Canucks Uniform. Yes I think we can all agree that would have been best. However, out of respect for the Sedins, who was facing their last few years at hoping to win a cup and staring down their inevitable retirement, they did not put them through a full on rebuild to end their careers. Benning and OWNERSHIP gave every last bit of hope to the Sedins to try and win a cup through free agency. It wasnt until they Sedins retired that ownership was forced to accept losing years ahead, however thankfully we had already been accumulating talent in the meantime to soften the blow of losing the twins. We had Boeser, Virtanen (who had been showing progression each year) Demko developing, Horvat, Pettersson killing it in the SEL etc. Imagine if we had to start with nothing the day the twins retired. We would be another 3-4 years behind where we currently are right now. It would be so much uglier. This management group has had far more trade chips to work with to accelerate any kind of rebuild or retool than Benning ever had the entire time he was here. He built everything and put everything in place, it was on this current group to do something with the valuable trade chips they had. So far its been a f***ing nightmare 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, AnthonyG said: Yes I think we can all agree that would have been best. However, out of respect for the Sedins, who was facing their last few years at hoping to win a cup and staring down their inevitable retirement, they did not put them through a full on rebuild to end their careers. Benning and OWNERSHIP gave every last bit of hope to the Sedins to try and win a cup through free agency. It wasnt until they Sedins retired that ownership was forced to accept losing years ahead, however thankfully we had already been accumulating talent in the meantime to soften the blow of losing the twins. We had Boeser, Virtanen (who had been showing progression each year) Demko developing, Horvat, Pettersson killing it in the SEL etc. Imagine if we had to start with nothing the day the twins retired. We would be another 3-4 years behind where we currently are right now. It would be so much uglier. This management group has had far more trade chips to work with to accelerate any kind of rebuild or retool than Benning ever had the entire time he was here. He built everything and put everything in place, it was on this current group to do something with the valuable trade chips they had. So far its been a f***ing nightmare Yes I know and agree... The club was loyal to the Sedins, and understandably so, but it would have been in the clubs best interest to get rid of everyone around them... Benning was given a rough hand to start with, and with the owners not really wanting a rebuild, we stayed in the mushy middle going one step forward and two back... A shame really as Benning did well with his drafting, despite was some think... One can only imagine how the team would have looked if he had been the go ahead to rebuild 7-8 years ago... or Gilles for that matter, although his drafting was poor into the extreme, which he even agreed to himself afterwards... Problem is we have always had 1 or two good players, to keep us good enough too not entirely sink to the bottom... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey God Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 He was a better player than a GM, and that's not saying much ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Shayster007 said: Get my head out of my ass? Grow up Anthony. Zero need to start acting like a child because someone disagrees with you. I think you're wrong, it's as simple as that. Dude its not that I think Benning should have stayed employed indefinitely, its your clueless and completely ignorant reasoning towards him that I do not agree with him. I can stomach him getting let go based on time, thats fine. However your lack of appreciation, your lack of understanding and your unrealistic expectations of a top 5 prospect pool AND and NHL team in under 7 years is absolutely batsh*t crazy to expect. In 7 years, with no real true assets like a JT Miller, Horvat's value now, or any other good solid in their prime pieces to move, he drafted 10 NHL players to play over 100 games. That is outstanding. Without the help of MULTIPLE top 3 picks or assets to gain top 15 picks. You think I'm wrong, I know you are wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, spook007 said: Yes I know and agree... The club was loyal to the Sedins, and understandably so, but it would have been in the clubs best interest to get rid of everyone around them... Benning was given a rough hand to start with, and with the owners not really wanting a rebuild, we stayed in the mushy middle going one step forward and two back... A shame really as Benning did well with his drafting, despite was some think... One can only imagine how the team would have looked if he had been the go ahead to rebuild 7-8 years ago... or Gilles for that matter, although his drafting was poor into the extreme, which he even agreed to himself afterwards... Problem is we have always had 1 or two good players, to keep us good enough too not entirely sink to the bottom... Benning did part ways with everyone around the twins as best he could, problem was, no one really had value. There would be more of an argument if Benning didnt have to deal with Kesler's NTC and if he could freely trade Kesler anywhere like JT or Bo. It would have netted us the return we needed/wanted and not given the player the say as to where they are going and what kind of scraps you have to pick through from that organizations pile. I feel like we are a lot closer to competing than people truly understand or realize. These are KIDS still for the most part, none of them have even hit their athletic prime and when they do, this league will be doing a flip. The top teams now, will be at the bottom, Vancouver will be on the rise and in their prime or just entering it. Now that we have a young roster filled out, this allows us so much more time with prospect development, to insert youth into the lineup on cheap deals, when they are ready. We have the major pieces you need to compete, a #1 goalie, #1C and #1D. Its just a matter of time, before the rest of the pieces fall in place and we find a perfect trade to pull the trigger on and put this team over the top in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, lmm said: Signed Boeser to an immovable contract Signed Miller to and anchor contract traded away the 2023 second rebuilt the 4th line but forgot to add snarl came up negative in coaching suspect 1st round pick ( I don't write guys off in year 1, but not looking great) Well, Boesers contract is short and he is still young… Why bother? Millers contract is not an anchor contract yet. Come back in five years and we can discuss further. If you want to hold the second against them you should hold Islanders first for them. Lekkerimäki has been sick/injured so let’s see in a few years. The fourth line, hmm, one small point but since this is a middle year for evaluation the cheap players are mostle there to fill up the roster. Let’s see wich players stay a couple years. The Horvat trade, Tocchet, Abbotsford etc is way above the futile problems you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, spook007 said: Problem is we have always had 1 or two good players, to keep us good enough too not entirely sink to the bottom... This right here isnt necessarily a bad thing either though. You look at the teams that have won the #1 consensus player... How far ahead is TOR or EDM? Looks like TOR if they do not win the cup this year, is going to be headed into the dark ages again. EDM is a sh*t show and a nightmare of a cap situation. Those monster contracts limit teams abilities to sign players or build around them. I'd rather have 10 solid players than 2 generational players. Seattle is a prime example of just a very good team, that doesnt have anything out of this world, but also doesnt have anything that really sucks like the liabilities on TOR and EDM. Its a gift and a curse to have such highly talented players, they command so much money and leave so little behind for the rest. Its a huge problem. Just wait until Draisaitl needs new ink on the paper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Dude its not that I think Benning should have stayed employed indefinitely, its your clueless and completely ignorant reasoning towards him that I do not agree with him. I can stomach him getting let go based on time, thats fine. However your lack of appreciation, your lack of understanding and your unrealistic expectations of a top 5 prospect pool AND and NHL team in under 7 years is absolutely batsh*t crazy to expect. In 7 years, with no real true assets like a JT Miller, Horvat's value now, or any other good solid in their prime pieces to move, he drafted 10 NHL players to play over 100 games. That is outstanding. Without the help of MULTIPLE top 3 picks or assets to gain top 15 picks. You think I'm wrong, I know you are wrong. You're also the guy who can't hold a 3 post conversation without blowing your top and making personal attacks. I couldn't care less about what you think you know, because that last sentence is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read. Edited February 20, 2023 by Shayster007 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now