[PGT] Nashville Predators at Vancouver Canucks | Mar. 06, 2023

[Gawdzukes]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

While I do agree we need a couple more game breakers to be cup contenders, until OEL and Boeser are off the books, we will be a mediocre playoff team. 

 

Peteys line is solid.. And it'll only get better as Petey isn't even in his prime yet

Miller is starting to really own the 2C spot and I see that as good as any second line the the league. 

 

We start falling apart in the bottom 6.

We need Hogz to make the jump and play well. We need either Raty or Karlsson to play well. 

Joshua has been a really good addition. So has Aman. Bottom 6 is close but not there yet. 

 

On defense, Hronek addition was key. We need him to play well. 

One or 2 more signings and moving out Myers and OEL will be the key to the franchise. Hughes much like Petey isn't even in his prime yet. 

Hughes defence is transition/open ice is one of the best on the team. His board play and battle in front of the net is what hurts him and we need a good partner for him. 

 

I see OEL being moved in 2 years when we need the cap space. 

We don't need to that yet but it will happen when we are on the cusp and need to sign a key player. 

 

 

 

I think it will all depend on what they are able to accomplish this summer. While Hronek may be just what we needed I don't think he will improve us by 25 points by himself, nor will Demko being healthy. We still have a porous defence, in the back and up front as it stands. We also have AHLers and unproven players playing in our bottom 6. It remains to be seen just how much Tocchet and co can change this team's attitude in a shot time. That will be a key, do we get the buy in from the start of the season or not?

 

One other issue is the teams around us and above all for the most part have a better ability to improve whether it be through quality prospects making the jump or cap space and assets to improve through trade and free agency. We could challenge for a wildcard or it may be another lean year or two while we shed dead weight.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

It’s about long term goals over short term gratification. He can still coach to win, but do it without riding the top players is all I’m saying.

Like I said if we win with guys like Podkolzin and Kravstov playing a key role great! If Petey and Kuzmenko are single handedly winning us games I don’t see how that’s prepping us for next season. That’s not sustainable in the long run. We gotta develop support players.

 

The players that will make a big difference for us sooner rather than later are in the top 5. Any player past that and you’re typically looking at 5-6 years of development. The same reason we weren’t rebuilding is the same reason those players won’t help our core on their prime. That’s why if we get a 8-12 pick I fully expect them to trade it.

 

 

I think if he weren't new you'd probably see that, but he wants to see how hard he can push his top guts and how well they respond to being pushed.  He has to get ro know his guys and what they can and can't handle.  I do think they should have held on to BB for the year, but that would have been cruel to a coach who doesn't deserve that.

 

With this top 15, I don't see anyway they are dealing that pick, but if they did you can be sure it would be an excellent, young player coming back 

[Goal:thecup]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

It’s about long term goals over short term gratification.

This is not short term gratification.

This is player and team (and coaching) development.

And is at least as important as anything in achieving long term goals.

[BCNate]

People are going to hate to admit that this team is:

1) playing much, much better under Tocchet and his team

2) Have a pretty decent lineup when healthy

3) Have a grossly under rated prospect pool

4) With 2-3 schrewed moves could be a very good team next season.

5) This will be a 2 year re tool wit ha better team coming back next season, and a plan to really compete the following.  

 

I'd expect significant roster changes coming up.  No, the TDL is not an indication of this group ability to move money out, nobody did that at the TDL, and that is not whathat period is for.

 

Beauvillier-EP-Kuz   

Mikheyev-Miller-Boeser

Podkolzin-XXX-Kravtsov

Aman, Dries, Studnicka, Joshua,  combo for 4th line 

 

Hughes-XXX

XXX-Hronek

OEL-Johansson/Bear

 

Getting Shipped out:

-Garland get dealt.  He is putting together a pretty solid season, will be over .5ppg.  He is tradeable without retention, but may not get a huge return.

-Myers will get dealt after the bonus is paid out, with retention.

-Pearson will be traded with retention, or buried in the minors.

-I think Rathbone and Hoglander are going to get dealt for similar level prospects, but different roles.  I see this management group starting to move away from smaller skilled guys and looking for more size and speed.

-Boeser is untradeable right now.  Give him until the TDL to turn things around or deal him.  The longer we wait, the less it will cost.

 

In:

-Every NCAA, European UFA, and any non qualified players of interest

-Solid Defensive RHC who PK's

-Stay at home top 4 Defensive LD, RD.  I don't care if they ever cross the centre line, just defend.

-Karlsson, Raty, Klimovich, McDonaugh all will get a few looks.

-Draft one of Benson, Yager, Smith at 7,8,or 9.

 

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

Yes, really. Leaving the outcome of the game riding on two kids playing on your 4th line is absolutely prioritizing player development over winning. They also played Silovs after two days off.

 

Petey and Hughes are playing a lot and Tocchet recently commented on wanting to bring their minutes down. He also mentioned they also look back at him on the bench, wanting to play, which is a positive sign.  They want to win each game, and are taking their new leadership roles seriously, leading by example.

 

 

 

All good stuff.

 

The coach and management have to balance their want to win and long term goals though.

[Seannnp]

We were never competing for the bottom 4. We simply arent as bad as Columbus, Anaheim, Chicago and Arizona. The goal was to pick between 5-7th which we still have a shot at although its unlikely given we have Demko back and our top players are playing like top players (Petey, Hughes, Miller, Kuz). The draft much like every year is unpredictable. Smith/Benson/Michkov could all fall with some teams going off the board or reaching (Yzerman with Seider/Arizona with Hayton). We still have lottery odds and could pray for a miracle but there is a lot of talent in the top 10 where the Canucks will most likely pick. 

 

Bedard has been a long a shot and that will not change. I am hopeful that we can get Michkov (contract status might push him down a la Podkolzin), Benson, Cristall or Smith. However, if we are able to sign Livingstone we could be open to the idea of drafting a LHD like Simashev. Reinbacher and Sandin-Pellika who are likely still on the board when we pick. 

 

We arent in need of a 1/2c as those spots are taken by Miller/Petey. If we could get Benson/Smith to plug up the 3c, great! If not, 3 defenseman are available in the top 15 for us to draft. I dont think we are going BPA this year outside the top 6-7 in any case. 

 

Ideally I would be looking to draft a defenseman (Simashev, Reinbacker, Sandin-Pellika), one that is closer to NHL ready of course. 

 

Next year weed out the bad contracts, look for a defensive faceoff guy for the 3c and another gritty winger to add the 4th line to compliment Joshua and Aman. Hope that Hog, Pods, and Krav step up and fill roles and we arent looking to shabby. 

 

This whole thing can play out in so many different ways. 

 

 

 

[mordekai]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

It’s about long term goals over short term gratification. He can still coach to win, but do it without riding the top players is all I’m saying.

Like I said if we win with guys like Podkolzin and Kravstov playing a key role great! If Petey and Kuzmenko are single handedly winning us games I don’t see how that’s prepping us for next season. That’s not sustainable in the long run. We gotta develop support players.

 

The players that will make a big difference for us sooner rather than later are in the top 5. Any player past that and you’re typically looking at 5-6 years of development. The same reason we aren’t rebuilding is the same reason those players won’t help our core in their prime. That’s why if we get an 8-12 pick I fully expect them to trade it.

 

Petey and Quinn still has a lot of learning to do. They still need to be out there learning. 

That's not the same as what Sharks are doing running Karlsson 30+mins, Couture and Hertl in their top minutes for forwards. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Goal:thecup said:

This is not short term gratification.

This is player and team (and coaching) development.

And is at least as important as anything in achieving long term goals.

If the pressure of making the playoffs was on I would agree.

 

I don’t see this proving much of anything. It’s no different than last season when teams were taking us lightly and our goalie was winning us games as JR stated.

 

Work on structure and special teams but manage minutes better. I don’t see that as some crazy idea.

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, mordekai said:

Petey and Quinn still has a lot of learning to do. They still need to be out there learning. 

That's not the same as what Sharks are doing running Karlsson 30+mins, Couture and Hertl in their top minutes for forwards. 

Hughes has been playing close to 30 minutes though.

 

He doesn’t need to play those minutes this time of year. Resting up for summer training is a much more important long term goal.

[ShawnAntoski]

29 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

While I do agree we need a couple more game breakers to be cup contenders, until OEL and Boeser are off the books, we will be a mediocre playoff team. 

 

Peteys line is solid.. And it'll only get better as Petey isn't even in his prime yet

Miller is starting to really own the 2C spot and I see that as good as any second line the the league. 

 

We start falling apart in the bottom 6.

We need Hogz to make the jump and play well. We need either Raty or Karlsson to play well. 

Joshua has been a really good addition. So has Aman. Bottom 6 is close but not there yet. 

 

On defense, Hronek addition was key. We need him to play well. 

One or 2 more signings and moving out Myers and OEL will be the key to the franchise. Hughes much like Petey isn't even in his prime yet. 

Hughes defence is transition/open ice is one of the best on the team. His board play and battle in front of the net is what hurts him and we need a good partner for him. 

 

I see OEL being moved in 2 years when we need the cap space. 

We don't need to that yet but it will happen when we are on the cusp and need to sign a key player. 

 

 

 

What happens when injuries occur ?

[DrJockitch]

57 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Actually, IMHAO we now have an excellent young core and management are tying to build the supporting cast so the club can handle if (when) Demko isn't able to play.  We have the key pieces now

Hughes

Hronek

 

Petey

Miller

 

Kuz

 

Demko

We are second line centre, third line centre, top 4 RD, qualified PKers short of being a championship contender while being over the cap and very depleted in draft capital.  We may have a passable 3rd line centre in Raty in the system but that is it as far as team needs. 
‘Another coaching change bump and end of the year hot run puts rose coloured glasses on everyone even cynical old Alf. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by DrJockitch

[Ted Lasso]

1 minute ago, Goal:thecup said:

This is not short term gratification.

This is player and team (and coaching) development.

And is at least as important as anything in achieving long term goals.

Exactly. An overly simplistic focus on draft position is short term gratification. Realizing these late season wins are meaningful to building a better team is the long game. Players take note of the new systems resulting in wins, and they buy in. They are also celebrating wins and bonding.

 

If you can’t see young players/farm team getting opportunities, and being assessed for next year, then I can’t help you.

[mordekai]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Hughes has been playing close to 30 minutes though.

 

He doesn’t need to play those minutes this time of year. Resting up for summer training is a much more important long term goal.

His minutes will drop slightly when we actually have full roster of nhl defencemen in the lineup. 

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, ShawnAntoski said:

What happens when injuries occur ?

I guess it depends on injuries to whom

If it's Petey, Hughes or Demko, we're screwed. 

If it's Di Giuseppi, he can be replaced? 

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

Exactly. An overly simplistic focus on draft position is short term gratification. Realizing these late season wins are meaningful to building a better team is the long game. Players take note of the new systems resulting in wins, and they buy in. They are also celebrating wins and bonding.

 

If you can’t see young players/farm team getting opportunities, and being assessed for next year, then I can’t help you.

That is what the GMs tell you to sell season tickets next year but these late season runs are just delaying the return to legitimate contender. 
‘It is different if you are a team purposely built, and starting the climb up to respectability. We are haphazardly built, throw in latest first rounder every third year when we haven’t traded it away for shortcut, add some more UFAs to fix the gaps in the system created by trading away all of our pics and then change coach every other year for a coaching bump that is equivalent to a sugar high at the end of the year. 

[Goal:thecup]

5 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If the pressure of making the playoffs was on I would agree.

 

I don’t see this proving much of anything. It’s no different than last season when teams were taking us lightly and our goalie was winning us games as JR stated.

 

Work on structure and special teams but manage minutes better. I don’t see that as some crazy idea.

It is not about proving anything.

It is about development, prospects, players, coaches, and systems.

 

I agree that Q is getting too many minutes and believe this will change.

[Coconuts]

41 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Childish minds thinking they are clever.

And yet you're the one choosing to engage and make it personal. I see your posts all the time, sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't, and yet the only time you ever hear from me is when you choose to engage. 

 

There's a lot of takes you're never going to agree with but for the most part we're talking hockey around here, not morality, ethics, or something more substantial. You don't have to agree, but you don't have to engage either. Life is easier when you live and let live. 

[jyu]

43 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

While I do agree we need a couple more game breakers to be cup contenders, until OEL and Boeser are off the books, we will be a mediocre playoff team. 

 

Peteys line is solid.. And it'll only get better as Petey isn't even in his prime yet

Miller is starting to really own the 2C spot and I see that as good as any second line the the league. 

 

We start falling apart in the bottom 6.

We need Hogz to make the jump and play well. We need either Raty or Karlsson to play well. 

Joshua has been a really good addition. So has Aman. Bottom 6 is close but not there yet. 

 

On defense, Hronek addition was key. We need him to play well. 

One or 2 more signings and moving out Myers and OEL will be the key to the franchise. Hughes much like Petey isn't even in his prime yet. 

Hughes defence is transition/open ice is one of the best on the team. His board play and battle in front of the net is what hurts him and we need a good partner for him. 

 

I see OEL being moved in 2 years when we need the cap space. 

We don't need to that yet but it will happen when we are on the cusp and need to sign a key player. 

 

 

 

I agree that there are parts of the team that are exciting.

 

But in 2 years, how do we move OEL? Do we give up a first? And at that point, how good is 32-33 year old Miller? Do we have a replacement for him if he isn't good and how do we move his 8 mil? Is it possible that we get saddled with 15 million combined cap hit of OEL and MIller if they don't perform well and are not tradeable? At that point, what do we do? Do we mortgage the future 1st rounders just to clear them off the roster?

 

IMO, the mgmt put themselves in a position where they have to go for it. I'm not against it but now they really need to get aggressive and get things done.

 

Be decisive in trading Myers, Brock and/or Garland even if it means the return is underwhelming and that we have to give up a sweetener/retention. And clear OEL if he is not in the plans. I'd give OEL one more year and if he is not back to form, we should move on from his contract in any way possible. Because we can see how better our defence looks recently without OEL -- defensively he isn't even a bottom pairing defenceman at the moment. 

 

Playoffs are possible in the next few seasons with the right moves but contention? I don't know if we will see a cup final before 2030. The gap was 12 years between 1982 and 1994 cup runs and then 17 years between 1994 and 2011 cup runs. The next one might be 20-30 years from 2011, which takes us to 2031 and onwards.

 

Teams that make shrewd moves will see shorter cycles between cup final appearances. I'm not convinced we are one of those teams, not yet anyways. I hope Allvin changes my mind this offseason.

 

Edit: Speaking of cup final appearances, when was the last time the Leafs made the cup final? They are an epitome of poorly run franchise prioritizing short term financial profits because that market lets them get away with anything. Well, save for maybe the years of "Shannaplan." Even then, they ran into strong Eastern conference rivals and can't get out of the first round. So bad luck and poorly run.

 

Under Aquillini, we are becoming the Toronto Maple Leafs out West. They make money no matter what so they always go for the playoffs for short term financial profits. I think that's ultimately the fear behind a lot of the diehard fans including myself. 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by jyu

[Goal:thecup]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We are second line centre, third line centre, top 4 RD, qualified PKers short of being a championship contender while being over the cap and very depleted in draft capital.  We may have a passable 3rd line centre in Raty in the system but that is it as far as team needs. 
‘Another coaching change bump and end of the year hot run puts rose coloured glasses on everyone even cynical old Alf. 

We do not have to be a complete team this year; and maybe not even next.

Please report on needs and solutions after TDL 2024.

This is also not a rose-coloured etc; it is proper development and cap management.

e.g. JR said we were not going to give away assets to make moves this year.

[-Vintage Canuck-]