Today is Toews' Last Game as a Hawk...

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

I blame the whole fiasco on the organization, once they found out they should have done more.

Vincent, Boynton, Sopel spoke about it and nothing got done.

Who is to say that if Toews, Kane or someone else said something things would have been different?

 

Just because Toews is a better player than those mentioned and was a captain means shit imo.

Bowman, McDonough, Wirtz and Q had all the power in that organization.

It was their job to take care of Aldridge situation.

 

As far as playing career goes, 2nd best hawks center behind Mikita.

I think he is done in the NHL but wouldn’t doubt that teams would sign him.

He will get into HOF eventually.

 

 

Everyone above deserves the blame. However, Toews went out of his way to defend the higher ups, including Bowman and all his 'precious' contributions to the city and the team.

 

Toews is what you call an apologist.

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, MattWN. said:

I can't find the article, but I thought he also said that Brad Aldrich was a good man (He's the guy who assaulted Beach)

 

Here is a refresher on Toews comments when the story broke about Kyle Beach. The guy is a f**king tool. f**k Toews.

With any luck he'll shatter both legs tonight.

https://www.bleachernation.com/blackhawks/2021/10/28/kane-and-toews-speak-beach-aldrich-bowman-consequences-more/

Yeah... I don't think he should be in the same class as Crosby.

 

 

 

And... our very own Jeremy Colliton

 

 

I think Colliton may have gotten away with some trouble, even if it's definitely nowhere near the same level as Aldrich. Let's hope that he learns from this incident and tries to be a better person moving forward.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

3 hours ago, shiznak said:

As the saying goes, “never meet your heroes, kids”.

 

Toews gets a lot of the slander, because he was the captain of the team, but I think the veterans on that team should be held accountable, just as much as Toews. And let’s be honest, if you guys were put in the same position at that age. You’ll probably do the same thing, and say nothing.

 

7 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Everyone above deserves the blame. However, Toews went out of his way to defend the higher ups, including Bowman and all his 'precious' contributions to the city and the team.

 

Toews is what you call an apologist.

I think being young doesn't exonerate you if you're the captain.  This isn't soccer where usually the oldest player captains the team.  He might've been young but he was still captain.  I don't know what I would've done but I was never known for having outstanding leadership skills at that age.  Some leader he was, and turned out to be.

 

But we all know why he is hated now.  It's because he never had to deal with it as a 21-year old.  He dealt with it as a 33-year old, and he really screwed up.  He screwed up so bad that he had to be shooed away for media availability and have Patrick Kane deal with it alone.

 

@Dazzle If he focused on rehabilitating his image by putting energy into helping sexual abuse survivors, if he showed even a bit of humility or contrition, I think he can easily make it into the HHoF.  Bonus points if he does it while still actively playing.  We'll see what he does with himself without having Rocky Wirtz looming over his shoulders.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Bob.Loblaw

[IBatch]

Toews should have never been included in the 100 greatest players - that is an absolute.   Probably 7-10 players that didn't make it that were worthy of consideration.   If Tonelli isn't in the HHOF, neither should Toews and there is a lot more guys in the HHOF then 100 guys.    Also when Kane and Toews signed their mega deals,  Toews started to whine about guys management traded or didnt re-sign.   Like grade two arithmetic was a class he skipped or something.   As soon as they signed those deals, the moment the ink dried, they lost their quality depth.    Whined about losing their core guys too lol... well look in the mirror.   For me, even without the Kyle Beech stuff,  Toew's had his own shovel when it came to the media stuff, and dug deep.    You never saw the Sedins doing that, and they didn't make 10.5 either.    

[Kevin Biestra]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Toews should have never been included in the 100 greatest players - that is an absolute.   Probably 7-10 players that didn't make it that were worthy of consideration.   If Tonelli isn't in the HHOF, neither should Toews and there is a lot more guys in the HHOF then 100 guys.    Also when Kane and Toews signed their mega deals,  Toews started to whine about guys management traded or didnt re-sign.   Like grade two arithmetic was a class he skipped or something.   As soon as they signed those deals, the moment the ink dried, they lost their quality depth.    Whined about losing their core guys too lol... well look in the mirror.   For me, even without the Kyle Beech stuff,  Toew's had his own shovel when it came to the media stuff, and dug deep.    You never saw the Sedins doing that, and they didn't make 10.5 either.    

 

I always found Toews personally unlikable going back to that one "Captain Serious" all star game skills competition where he wanted a redo because he thought the other guy had some kind of advantage.  He was probably right about the little detail but the legitimacy and stakes of the all star game skills competition sailed away at least 20 years ago and Doug Wilson didn't even complain back in 1990 or so when the radar didn't work for what seemed like his first eight or so slap shots in the hardest shot competition and it was like a pitcher in the eighth inning by the time the machine actually worked for one of his shots.

 

Yeah it's kind of funny that Toews is on the NHL's best 100 ever and Tonelli never even gets mentioned as a possible oversight by the Hall of Fame by anyone.  Being a captain for three Cups goes a long way but Dustin Brown doesn't get much respect for being the captain for two.  He's kind of the "Chris Osgood of captains."

 

I'd have Toews in the Hall but not clearing the bar by a great margin and the Top 100 players of all time thing was...I found it pretty silly.  Bergeron already had four of his Selke Trophies when the NHL released that list and he didn't make the cut.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[IBatch]

55 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I always found Toews personally unlikable going back to that one "Captain Serious" all star game skills competition where he wanted a redo because he thought the other guy had some kind of advantage.  He was probably right about the little detail but the legitimacy and stakes of the all star game skills competition sailed away at least 20 years and Doug Wilson didn't even complain back in 1990 or so when the radar didn't work for what seemed like his first eight or so slap shots in the hardest shot competition and it was like a pitcher in the eighth inning by the time the machine actually worked for one of his shots.

 

Yeah it's kind of funny that Toews is on the NHL's best 100 ever and Tonelli never even gets mentioned as a possible oversight by the Hall of Fame by anyone.  Being a captain for three Cups goes a long way but Dustin Brown doesn't get much respect for being the captain for two.  He's kind of the "Chris Osgood of captains."

 

I'd have Toews in the Hall but not clearing the bar by a great margin and the Top 100 players of all time thing was...I found it pretty silly.  Bergeron already had four of his Selke Trophies when the NHL released that list and he didn't make the cut.

 

For sure there was a recency bias for some players, and snubs for some (Bergeron and Malkin).    They probably missed some old timers too (original six players).   Keith, to me was about as good as Campbell.  Just played on better teams longer (Campbell was their best D first cup - and a Canuck Killer)....for sure it matters where you land.     That said no take backs,  Toews and Kane probably end up first ballot guys when they are done.    Personally i'd make Toews sweat it out for awhile and hope they do....and would have Tonelli in before him.   So make him sweat it out for 30 or so years lol. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by IBatch

[King Heffy]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

For sure there was a recency bias for some players, and snubs for some (Bergeron and Malkin).    They probably missed some old timers too (original six players).   Keith, to me was about as good as Campbell.  Just played on better teams longer (Campbell was their best D first cup - and a Canuck Killer)....for sure it matters where you land.     That said no take backs,  Toews and Kane probably end up first ballot guys when they are done.    Personally i'd make Toews sweat it out for awhile and hope they do....and would have Tonelli in before him.   So make him sweat it out for 30 or so years lol. 

https://www.hhof.com/induction/selectioncommittee.html

 

I think we can trust Burke to do the right thing.  I'd also think Francis, Granato, Sakic, and Robataille would be willing to keep him out.

[.Naslund]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:20 AM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I have him in the HOF but I think it was a big mistake for the NHL to include him in their 100 greatest players of all time list...over Dale Hawerchuk among others.

Over Malkin as well

[J-Dizzle]

As a player he is highly over rated. He was good, but not great. 
 

Probably will be in the HOF but doesn’t really deserve it imo. 
 

Terrible human being. His defence of Bowman and company shows he’s about as daft as they come. 

[.Naslund]

6 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

As a player he is highly over rated. He was good, but not great. 
 

Probably will be in the HOF but doesn’t really deserve it imo. 
 

Terrible human being. His defence of Bowman and company shows he’s about as daft as they come. 

I personally think he’s the most overrated player of his generation. 

[shiznak]

On 4/14/2023 at 12:14 AM, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

I think being young doesn't exonerate you if you're the captain.  This isn't soccer where usually the oldest player captains the team.  He might've been young but he was still captain.  I don't know what I would've done but I was never known for having outstanding leadership skills at that age.  Some leader he was, and turned out to be.

 

But we all know why he is hated now.  It's because he never had to deal with it as a 21-year old.  He dealt with it as a 33-year old, and he really screwed up.  He screwed up so bad that he had to be shooed away for media availability and have Patrick Kane deal with it alone.

 

@Dazzle If he focused on rehabilitating his image by putting energy into helping sexual abuse survivors, if he showed even a bit of humility or contrition, I think he can easily make it into the HHoF.  Bonus points if he does it while still actively playing.  We'll see what he does with himself without having Rocky Wirtz looming over his shoulders.

I was never a fan of giving the captaincy to a young player, no matter how mature he is for his age. There’s too much pressure on a kid at that age, handling the media (or in this case, a sexual abuse situation), answering the tough questions every night, dealing with fans, etc. A player should have a minimum of 5-6 years in the league to get the C. 

 

Toews was pretty much given the C, because he and Kane were the future of the team, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was mature enough for it. Like I said, put yourself in that situation at that age and you probably would have done the same. Especially, at a crucial time of the year. You never want to jeopardize the chance of winning the Stanley Cup, causing a distracting to the team during a playoff run. Not only that but also jeopardizing your career. I mean, what if management didn’t believe your story and took Aldrich side? Sopel went to management and got traded that same year. 
 

You look at a guy like John Madden on that team, a 36-yrs old veteran who was well respected player amongst his peers. Why didn’t he stand up and say anything? Or Campbell? Or Sharp, who was their NHLPA representative?

Edited April 15, 2023 by shiznak

[iinatcc]

20 hours ago, IBatch said:

Toews should have never been included in the 100 greatest players - that is an absolute.   Probably 7-10 players that didn't make it that were worthy of consideration.   If Tonelli isn't in the HHOF, neither should Toews and there is a lot more guys in the HHOF then 100 guys.    Also when Kane and Toews signed their mega deals,  Toews started to whine about guys management traded or didnt re-sign.   Like grade two arithmetic was a class he skipped or something.   As soon as they signed those deals, the moment the ink dried, they lost their quality depth.    Whined about losing their core guys too lol... well look in the mirror.   For me, even without the Kyle Beech stuff,  Toew's had his own shovel when it came to the media stuff, and dug deep.    You never saw the Sedins doing that, and they didn't make 10.5 either.    

There was some debate during the early 2010's if Toews was a better than Crosby. And it wasn't a isolated discussion either. 

[cripplereh]

Well he might try again next year but think best he just retires.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

3 hours ago, shiznak said:

I was never a fan of giving the captaincy to a young player, no matter how mature he is for his age. There’s too much pressure on a kid at that age, handling the media (or in this case, a sexual abuse situation), answering the tough questions every night, dealing with fans, etc. A player should have a minimum of 5-6 years in the league to get the C. 

 

Toews was pretty much given the C, because he and Kane were the future of the team, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was mature enough for it. Like I said, put yourself in that situation at that age and you probably would have done the same. Especially, at a crucial time of the year. You never want to jeopardize the chance of winning the Stanley Cup, causing a distracting to the team during a playoff run. Not only that but also jeopardizing your career. I mean, what if management didn’t believe your story and took Aldrich side? Sopel went to management and got traded that same year. 
 

You look at a guy like John Madden on that team, a 36-yrs old veteran who was well respected player amongst his peers. Why didn’t he stand up and say anything? Or Campbell? Or Sharp, who was their NHLPA representative?

That Blackhawks roster has almost unanimously denied knowing anything about the situation, and has essentially avoided talking about it since.  Only Boynton and Soper have spoken out about knowing in 2010, and they have also indicted the whole team for knowing.  Some voices are being shushed, others protected.  It's all part of the old boys' culture of hockey.

 

My point about Toews is that he continually put his foot in his mouth even as he got older.  Nobody is disputing his on-ice leadership and work ethic.  His various interviews showed how unprofessional he could be.  And even after 13 or so years in the league, he still went out and made a disgrace of himself in his post-scandal interviews.  This is why I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt as a kid - he never smartened up as an adult.  This was a grown-ass man protesting the condemnation of the very people who let Kyle Beach get assaulted.

 

If you're the captain, you are the leader.  Doesnt matter how old you are.  You bear that responsibility. 

[spook007]

Toews best moment was getting nailed by Mitchell.... 

Still watch that hit when I'm bored... together with Lindens through the glass hit and Bures Elbow...

[spook007]

2 hours ago, iinatcc said:

There was some debate during the early 2010's if Toews was a better than Crosby. And it wasn't a isolated discussion either. 

At what? Scrabble??

[Kevin Biestra]

34 minutes ago, spook007 said:

At what? Scrabble??

 

When Crosby was named Captain of the 2014 Olympic team he called Jonathan Toews to ask him if it was okay first.

[iinatcc]

52 minutes ago, spook007 said:

At what? Scrabble??

Remember this was the time when Toews won 3 cups and was Playoff MVP while Crosby only won one. So the debate was real.

 

Of course today we all know Crosby is much better but back then it was a serious discussion. 

[spook007]

24 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

When Crosby was named Captain of the 2014 Olympic team he called Jonathan Toews to ask him if it was okay first.

I have an unhealthy dislike towards Toews. It probably clouds my judgement. To me he's one of the biggest whiners in hockey together with McD. 
In saying that, it shows the class of Crosby...

after all he has nearly double the amount of points that Toews has. (Although he didn't have the 3 cups Toews had at the time). 
Both fabulous players, but I don't recall anyone talking about Toews being Generational, though my memory has deserted me. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by spook007

[spook007]

4 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Remember this was the time when Toews won 3 cups and was Playoff MVP while Crosby only won one. So the debate was real.

 

Of course today we all know Crosby is much better but back then it was a serious discussion. 

Fair comment iinatcc. Cheers.