spook007 Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Mantha might be tall but he doesn't play big. In fact his commitment was questioned by Detroit. Hot/Cold Cheers Fred, hence I didn't want to comment on names... If they don't play big it is irrelevant. Need them to make a difference physically, other wise its just moving chairs... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 1 hour ago, grandmaster said: I agree. Priority is one of those defender unless by some miracle Michkov drops to the 11th spot… Must resist shinny wingers… can’t... Take the RHD, take the Center…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 30 minutes ago, spook007 said: Cheers Fred, hence I didn't want to comment on names... If they don't play big it is irrelevant. Need them to make a difference physically, other wise its just moving chairs... Detroit ( who drafted him #20 O/A 2013 ) couldn't motivate the guy and that's why IMO they traded him. Incidently Gillis took Horvaat that same draft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: I think in essence you have actually proved we are in cap hell. I guess it might be semantics here. Sure, we can ice a team. However, it's not anywhere close to winning anything or even making the playoffs. It's a garbage team because we can't afford good players, it's littered with hopes and dreams, and has players that are immovable without sweeteners. That's the definition of cap hell. It's not the end of the world, and it's possible to get out of. But we're definitely in it. Hmmmm... Understand your point, but agree and disagree.. I would say the cap hell we spoke about, was where we would be above the cap, and needing to move players, in order to be below the cap. I proved, we are not. I agree it is far from ideal, but it does mean, we are not forced to make stupid trades and add 1sts ,which some suggested to move cap. Still, I am, as I said before definitely sure they are actively finding ways to rid Poolman as well as Brock or Garland. That would obviously give us a bit of breathing space, but these issues were always going to be there, when you pay $7.26 for a defender, that doesn't play like a no 1 or 2.... Mikheyev 4.75 - Petterson 11.5 - Kuzmenko 5.5 Garland 4.95 - Miller 8.0 - Boeser 6.65 Di Guiseppe 0.78 - New 3C (3M) - Podz 1.5 Joshua 2.0 - Aman 1.5 - Hogs 1.5 Raty/Bains 0.84 Hughes 7.85 - New rhd $5M OEL 7.26 - Hronek 7.5 Wolanin 0.78 - Poolman or Schenn 2.5 Brisebois 0.78 - Juulsen/Woo 1.0 Demko 5.0 Silovs 1.5 Total of $91.64 = Rhd 5M + 3C 3M + Reserve goal keeper + 4th line make the salary adjustments to fit under $90M or whatever the cap is going to be This should leave the team intact for the expected $90 and that is without shifting anyone... Hopefully Poolman never sees another game and if he is shifted Brisebois or Woo or Juulsen (remember we are talking 2024-2025) can step in and at close to league minimum. Alternatively waive him and send him to Abby. It is not ideal, but it is possible and I think that line up is better than, what we have just now. If we can send Brock or Garland off and maybe get a bigger with PK ability even better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 56 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said: Must resist shinny wingers… can’t... Take the RHD, take the Center…. Michkov is the exception. He was neck and neck for 1OA with Bedard for a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 4 hours ago, grandmaster said: Garland was marginally on an inefficient contract. Brock was far worse based on his salary. Regardless we are not in Cap Hell like you say. We will be Cap compliant. There is no need to sell with sweeteners. We can go as is with the addition of Hronek as a top 4 defender and Mik being on the team as a top 6 forward. Both decent upgrades and an uninjured Dem will prove us to be a top 3. Pacific Division team. It's a matter of semantics I guess. To me and for most I would say cap hell is struggling to get under the cap while dealing with unwanted high value contracts, while also not having the means to dress lesser value ELC players instead, or improve the team in any other meaningful way in order to compete. As a team who finished 22nd and needs improvement I would say we are the utter definition and in cap hell. It has nothing to do with being able to be cap compliant at the start of the season. Sorry but we're not a top 3 Pacific team until we prove we are. Call it what you want really we sure could use better players could we not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said: It's a matter of semantics I guess. To me and for most I would say cap hell is struggling to get under the cap while dealing with unwanted high value contracts, while also not having the means to dress lesser value ELC players instead, or improve the team in any other meaningful way in order to compete. As a team who finished 22nd and needs improvement I would say we are the utter definition and in cap hell. It has nothing to do with being able to be cap compliant at the start of the season. Sorry but we're not a top 3 Pacific team until we prove we are. Call it what you want really we sure could use better players could we not? Buying out OEL and trading Myers clears 13 mil from our cap for this coming season. Trade Gar and Bess in lateral hockey trade for a defensive 3C and an older, stay at home D of similar cap costs. Our owner won’t buyout OEL and might not want to pay Myers five mil to play on another club. So we are kind of stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, Alflives said: Buying out OEL and trading Myers clears 13 mil from our cap for this coming season. Trade Gar and Bess in lateral hockey trade for a defensive 3C and an older, stay at home D of similar cap costs. Our owner won’t buyout OEL and might not want to pay Myers five mil to play on another club. So we are kind of stuck. Yeah it's going to be tough. For me the best case scenario is something like Myers gets traded without adding anything significant, and two of Boes, Garland, and Beau, get traded as well. We then use that money on a 3C, another defender possibly, and whatever other direction they choose to go in. There are a tonne of question marks for us fans. Are they going to promote Joshua to line 3, is DiGuiseppe in the plans, where are Hogs and Pods fitting in, is Aman back as 4C. What are the long-term plans for the top 6. Really a bunch of different directions this could go depending on how aggressive the FO is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Buying out OEL and trading Myers clears 13 mil from our cap for this coming season. Trade Gar and Bess in lateral hockey trade for a defensive 3C and an older, stay at home D of similar cap costs. Our owner won’t buyout OEL and might not want to pay Myers five mil to play on another club. So we are kind of stuck. I wouldn't buy out OEL. We're basically locking in a lot of dead cap when we want to compete with Petey and hughes. I'm hoping/banking on recovery + reduced minutes. He doesn't have to be a game breaker. Just middle pair defense with shelter minutes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, DSVII said: I wouldn't buy out OEL. We're basically locking in a lot of dead cap when we want to compete with Petey and hughes. I'm hoping/banking on recovery + reduced minutes. He doesn't have to be a game breaker. Just middle pair defense with shelter minutes. OEL is a bottom pair at best right now. He could very well be in the press box as a healthy scratch while a guy like Wolanen plays. Do we’d be paying 8 mil for a bottom pairing role. Or we buyout OEL and we are paying 1 mil this coming year and 3 mil the next for a bottom pairing spot. Even in the worst of the buyout we are paying 5.5 for that bottom pair spot. Or we watch OEL eat popcorn and 7.2 from our cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: It's a matter of semantics I guess. To me and for most I would say cap hell is struggling to get under the cap while dealing with unwanted high value contracts, while also not having the means to dress lesser value ELC players instead, or improve the team in any other meaningful way in order to compete. As a team who finished 22nd and needs improvement I would say we are the utter definition and in cap hell. It has nothing to do with being able to be cap compliant at the start of the season. Sorry but we're not a top 3 Pacific team until we prove we are. Call it what you want really we sure could use better players could we not? Guess you are right, but most teams not rebuilding, are at the upper end of the cap. Hronek was a definite upgrade on our team. If they can swing a trade and get a better 3 C, we should do better and a decent bet for the play offs. It was always going to be an issue after the Benning era.... But we can't waste Peteys or QHs youth waiting for OEls contract to vanish. Selling off most players of value will not guarantee anything the next 3-4 years here.. If we go down that route we may as well sell the lot and start from scratch... We could be done drafting a top RHD or some two way playing forward with size. in a couple of years they could change our out look. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure2Win Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) Just watching these playoffs as well as past playoffs i would think they should realize that they need to get more tough players that can still play hockey, softies just wont cut it. Or at least skilled players that can play tough and be somewhat intimidating. Edited May 14, 2023 by Bure2Win 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, Bure2Win said: Just watching these playoffs as well as past playoffs i would think they should realize that they need to get more tough players that can still play hockey, softies just wont cut it. Or at least skilled players that can play tough and be somewhat intimidating. Hughes set the rookie scoring record in his one playoffs. Petey was a PPG. Miller is great and tough. Hronek is great and tough. We need to support those core guys better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, spook007 said: Guess you are right, but most teams not rebuilding, are at the upper end of the cap. Hronek was a definite upgrade on our team. If they can swing a trade and get a better 3 C, we should do better and a decent bet for the play offs. It was always going to be an issue after the Benning era.... But we can't waste Peteys or QHs youth waiting for OEls contract to vanish. Selling off most players of value will not guarantee anything the next 3-4 years here.. If we go down that route we may as well sell the lot and start from scratch... We could be done drafting a top RHD or some two way playing forward with size. in a couple of years they could change our out look. Better coaching with insistence upon playing the right way and within the systems is key too. We have that now. We will draft the BPA at 11. And he’s going to be a very good prospect. But he’s going to be a guy who will play the right way. I think it’s been @stawns who has mentioned often that we needed better coaching. He was clearly right. Edited May 14, 2023 by Alflives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan-observer Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 Will be shocked if Michkov gets past 7-8 considering most of these lottery teams are in for the long haul and can wait a bit for their picks to develop - even for the teams closer to contention (eg. Detroit) they are already competitive so adding a Michkov in the next few years just strengthens their roster as well in 2026 For the Canucks, I would like them to just take the BPA in the draft regardless of position - once they start tinkering with position, may end up with the Juolevi - Tkachuk scenario again. Players they need for their position will be obtained by free agency, PTO and trades anyway. I feel right now with their current roster, they are around the 20-22rd range overall so still some work to do to get them closer to the playoff line. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 5 hours ago, DSVII said: I wouldn't buy out OEL. We're basically locking in a lot of dead cap when we want to compete with Petey and hughes. I'm hoping/banking on recovery + reduced minutes. He doesn't have to be a game breaker. Just middle pair defense with shelter minutes. Absolutely! It's not the owner who's putting the brakes on buying out OEL. Rutherford may have but I believe that Alvin has nixed the idea. It's the dead cap for 8 years that has more likelihood of holding back the Canucks. Besides, if OEL is fit all summer, he won't show up to camp out of shape and we won't see another disasterous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 8 hours ago, Alflives said: Better coaching with insistence upon playing the right way and within the systems is key too. We have that now. We will draft the BPA at 11. And he’s going to be a very good prospect. But he’s going to be a guy who will play the right way. I think it’s been @stawns who has mentioned often that we needed better coaching. He was clearly right. Agree 100%. The fact that just about everyone brought up from Abby to fill in the blank due to injuries, did so very well. Coaching is alpha omega in the progress of young kids. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 20 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Jim Benning is no longer GM handing out those kinds of contracts to Myers & OEL. True, however the new guys are handing out those types of contracts to Boeser and Miller 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 10 minutes ago, Gurn said: True, however the new guys are handing out those types of contracts to Boeser and Miller Miller’s contract is team friendly. He’s a power forward who puts up a point per game. Look at what Mier is going to get. Similar players. We either signed Brock or let him walk in free agency. He’s a good player who is overpaid by 1.5 mil. Not a terrible contract. Not team friendly like Miller’s though. We certainly wouldn’t need to add 11OA to move Brock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: Miller’s contract is team friendly. He’s a power forward who puts up a point per game. Look at what Mier is going to get. Similar players. We either signed Brock or let him walk in free agency. He’s a good player who is overpaid by 1.5 mil. Not a terrible contract. Not team friendly like Miller’s though. We certainly wouldn’t need to add 11OA to move Brock. Miller's deal hasn't even kicked in yet, and he's already trending downward. Maybe it is a 'team friendly' deal for the first 2-3 years, but the end of contract is going to either cripple the team, or cost a ton to get rid of. Letting Brock walk, for nothing, or now having to give up draft picks AND players to make cap space- which would be better to do? New shiny management, always looks better than old management. Key word "looks"; doesn't mean IS better- and even if it is better- it may not be good enough. A lot of short term planning going on, in the management and fan ranks. "Who cares about 3 years from now" "I'll just put this on my credit card and make the minimum payments for the next 10 years" "what could possibly go wrong with that?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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