Cap… Wait it out a year or pay a price to make space?

[EastCoastNucks]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don’t get your math. The cap cost is what I stated. It’s added to be the cost of the plsyer taking OEL’s spot on our bottom pairing, so likely less than a million. A guy like Wolanen or Hirose. So the total cap cost to us is 1 mil the first year. 3 mil in year two. Then a couple at 5 mil. Then the rest at 3 mil. Or we can watch OEL eat popcorn in the press box as a healthy scratch and see that bottom pairing spot cost us 8 mil for the next four years. 
It’s clear we should buyout OEL this summer but our owner won’t write the 20 million dollar cheque to do so. 

I guess you dont know how the buy out works..... for the next 8 years both Canucks and Coyotes take a hit 

I just know it better from the Luongo buy out, the Virtanin buy out, the Holtbey ect ect. 

I DO like your math, but this is what the buyout for OEL looks like, over 8 years we only gain 6 milliion in cap space (less than 1 million per year, so a junior) :

Retained Salary

This contract was involved in a retained salary transaction. The resulting costs and cap hit are therefore split between each team based on the percentage of salary retained by the respective teams.

• Arizona Coyotes: 12%

Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATE	BASE SALARY REMAINING	S.BONUS REMAINING	YEARS REMAINING	BUYOUT LENGTH	AGE	BUYOUT RATIO	TOTAL COST	TOTAL SAVINGS	ANNUAL COST
Aug. 15, 2023	$29,000,000	$0	4	8	32	2/3	$19,333,333	$9,666,667	$2,416,667

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (VAN)	CAP HIT (ARI)
2023-24	$10,500,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$8,083,333	$146,667	$20,000
2024-25	$8,000,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$5,583,333	$2,346,667	$320,000
2025-26	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$2,833,333	$4,766,667	$650,000
2026-27	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$2,833,333	$4,766,667	$650,000
2027-28	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2028-29	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2029-30	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2030-31	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
TOTAL	$29,000,000	$33,000,000	$0	$19,333,333	$19,333,333	$9,666,667	$20,533,336 (88%)	$2,800,000 (12%)

 

 

[EastCoastNucks]

To everyone screaming that we need to draft defense, the opposite is true. We need to trade away some high priced defense to let our prospects in.

We need to get OEL, Myers in a bundle that a team with cap space can afford, even if it means giving up Hughes in that bundle.

 

[BarnBurner]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Beau is softer than Mrs. Alf…

How would you know? 

[5nothincanucksohno]

Adding sweeteners this summer makes no sense in my opinion. What is mgmt going to spend the extra space on? More UFAs? Please no.

 

Step 1) just sign EP long-term, that should be Mgmt's primary focus this summer. It is less about the players (new rotation every year) and more about setting a level of accountability on the ice. Give EP and QH the reigns and see what they can do.

 

If they can't sign him and/or his level of commitment to the team isn't strong then some tough decisions will need to be made.

 

Step 2) acquire extra picks at the draft if they can and skip July 1st. Hold out for some undervalued deals later in the summer. A lot of teams are capped out so likely some good value will be available after the UFA dust settles.

 

Step 3) think outside the box, utilize the current players and see what the team can do. Trade all UFAs and spare parts at the TDL. Potential options, trade Bear at the draft, use Podz/Beau at 3C, try QH on the right side to get OEL going and maximize extra LHD, trade Myers/whoever doesn't fit at the TDL,  etc.

 

Kuz EP Mik

DJ JT Boeser

Podz/Beau Garland

PDG Aman Hogs

 

OEL QH

BPA Hronek

BPA Myers

 

 

 

 

 

[5nothincanucksohno]

56 minutes ago, EastCoastNucks said:

I guess you dont know how the buy out works..... for the next 8 years both Canucks and Coyotes take a hit 

I just know it better from the Luongo buy out, the Virtanin buy out, the Holtbey ect ect. 

I DO like your math, but this is what the buyout for OEL looks like, over 8 years we only gain 6 milliion in cap space (less than 1 million per year, so a junior) :

Retained Salary

This contract was involved in a retained salary transaction. The resulting costs and cap hit are therefore split between each team based on the percentage of salary retained by the respective teams.

• Arizona Coyotes: 12%

Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATE	BASE SALARY REMAINING	S.BONUS REMAINING	YEARS REMAINING	BUYOUT LENGTH	AGE	BUYOUT RATIO	TOTAL COST	TOTAL SAVINGS	ANNUAL COST
Aug. 15, 2023	$29,000,000	$0	4	8	32	2/3	$19,333,333	$9,666,667	$2,416,667

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (VAN)	CAP HIT (ARI)
2023-24	$10,500,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$8,083,333	$146,667	$20,000
2024-25	$8,000,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$5,583,333	$2,346,667	$320,000
2025-26	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$2,833,333	$4,766,667	$650,000
2026-27	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$2,833,333	$4,766,667	$650,000
2027-28	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2028-29	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2029-30	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2030-31	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
TOTAL	$29,000,000	$33,000,000	$0	$19,333,333	$19,333,333	$9,666,667	$20,533,336 (88%)	$2,800,000 (12%)

 

 

The Canucks gain over 7M in cap space next year alone if they buy OEL out this summer so 6M in cap space over 8 years can't be right.

 

Years 3 and 4 of the buyout hurt due to the 4.76M cap hit plus whatever the replacement player's salary is. Regardless, still a tough pill to swallow. IMHO team's best chance is to see if OEL can improve next year with a healthy summer (and no injury issues like last summer)

 

 

[mll]

4 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

They get the better point producers while we add size and position. Anderson still has 4 years though. I don't know about that. One more n'mare down the road. 

Kent Hughes himself talks of how they've received so many calls for Anderson - says ever since he took over he's been in high demand.  Anderson didn't put up any pts when CBJ swept Tampa but he was a disruptive force - looks like teams haven't forgotten.  

 

LeBrun says Montreal confident that if they ever decide to trade him they would get a haul.  Can't see any of the Canucks' 3 wingers as being considered a haul.  

 

[Gawdzukes]

23 minutes ago, mll said:

Kent Hughes himself talks of how they've received so many calls for Anderson - says ever since he took over he's been in high demand.  Anderson didn't put up any pts when CBJ swept Tampa but he was a disruptive force - looks like teams haven't forgotten.  

 

LeBrun says Montreal confident that if they ever decide to trade him they would get a haul.  Can't see any of the Canucks' 3 wingers as being considered a haul.  

 

Fair enough. He has struggled mightily in Montreal. I wouldn't be giving them much of anything. If that's the case they can keep him.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, EastCoastNucks said:

Myers? only one year left on that contract. Sure, he is like a dandy long legs spider and everything goes through but OEL is the contract to lose... maybe even if we have to bundle OEL contract with a Hughes trade to NJD who can afford both contracts with no retention. We need the cap, but we cant afford retention on any deals.

That's a pipe dream. OEL is here for another year at least. There is a -500,000,489 % chance Hughes is traded as a sweetener to offload OEL.  There is also no way NJ is taking on a $7.25 million dollar cap dump. That's just a bad idea all around.

[Wilbur]

Vote currently 41-0 for "Wait it Out a Year" so you know management is gonna send out sweeteners to clear cap.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Wilbur

[Ted Lasso]

Still wonder what was behind PA’s confidence in being cap compliant. Possible he had something lined up with the Pens for the off-season, that’s now off the table.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, EastCoastNucks said:

I guess you dont know how the buy out works..... for the next 8 years both Canucks and Coyotes take a hit 

I just know it better from the Luongo buy out, the Virtanin buy out, the Holtbey ect ect. 

I DO like your math, but this is what the buyout for OEL looks like, over 8 years we only gain 6 milliion in cap space (less than 1 million per year, so a junior) :

Retained Salary

This contract was involved in a retained salary transaction. The resulting costs and cap hit are therefore split between each team based on the percentage of salary retained by the respective teams.

• Arizona Coyotes: 12%

Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATE	BASE SALARY REMAINING	S.BONUS REMAINING	YEARS REMAINING	BUYOUT LENGTH	AGE	BUYOUT RATIO	TOTAL COST	TOTAL SAVINGS	ANNUAL COST
Aug. 15, 2023	$29,000,000	$0	4	8	32	2/3	$19,333,333	$9,666,667	$2,416,667

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (VAN)	CAP HIT (ARI)
2023-24	$10,500,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$8,083,333	$146,667	$20,000
2024-25	$8,000,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$5,583,333	$2,346,667	$320,000
2025-26	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$2,833,333	$4,766,667	$650,000
2026-27	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	$2,833,333	$4,766,667	$650,000
2027-28	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2028-29	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2029-30	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
2030-31	$0	$0	$0	$2,416,667	$2,416,667	-$2,416,667	$2,126,667	$290,000
TOTAL	$29,000,000	$33,000,000	$0	$19,333,333	$19,333,333	$9,666,667	$20,533,336 (88%)	$2,800,000 (12%)

 

 

Apparently you don't know how the buyouts work and you can't even read your own post correctly. In the first year alone his cap hit is only $146,667 saving $8,083,333, the second year $5,583,333 ... and so on with us being penalized for 4 years at -$2,416,667 for a grand total of $9,666,667 in cap savings. 12% of that goes to Arizona.

[mll]

18 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Fair enough. He has struggled mightily in Montreal. I wouldn't be giving them much of anything. If that's the case they can keep him.

Everyone has struggled till St Louis took over.  He looks like a different player and with how pleased they are with him and what he brings wouldn't expect them to trade him.  St Louis talks of how he brings elements that are rare with his size, strength and speed and says he's really happy with how receptive he's been and the progress he's made.

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Everyone has struggled till St Louis took over.  He looks like a different player and with how pleased they are with him and what he brings wouldn't expect them to trade him.  St Louis talks of how he brings elements that are rare with his size, strength and speed and says he's really happy with how receptive he's been and the progress he's made.

Well I must admit I wasn't really following Montreal vey closely so I'll take your word for it. Obviously we're not a good trade partner for that player. What about Dvorak?

[Phil_314]

10 hours ago, BarnBurner said:

Wait a year. 

 

Beauvillier, Myers and Pearson are off the books. That's more than $13 mil in cap space. 

*IF we're compliant with them in the lineup then sure let's keep them.  If not I'd be open to trade them for pennies on the dollar with retention, as long as we don't give up further assets for future considerations.

[Timråfan]

43 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Still wonder what was behind PA’s confidence in being cap compliant. Possible he had something lined up with the Pens for the off-season, that’s now off the table.

He got first hand info about out LTIR players.

You don’t have to look any further.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Timråfan

[iinatcc]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

With a compliance buyout the owners still have to pay out the contracts like a regular buyout. The only difference is the money doesn’t count against the cap. So if we used a compliance buyout on OEL, Aquilini would still have to pay him out $20 million. He probably wouldn’t do that. 

On a financial side yes it remains the same. But on a cap perspective it might help teams, not just the Canucks, and provide team that option 

[BarnBurner]

52 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

*IF we're compliant with them in the lineup then sure let's keep them.  If not I'd be open to trade them for pennies on the dollar with retention, as long as we don't give up further assets for future considerations.

This is why someone like you shouldn't have a say in managerial matters. Wow!

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

He got first hand info about out LTIR players.

You don’t have to look any further.

I think this is it.  If both are on LTIR which I suspect will happen, then we open up almost $6 million in cap space.  Enough to sign a 3C and a LHD and maybe Luke Schenn too…

[Phil_314]

59 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

This is why someone like you shouldn't have a say in managerial matters. Wow!

You'd rather let them walk for nothing than at least get some draft capital in return?  If we're going to build around the remaining guys it's probably better if we consolidate and focus around them by moving these 3 and building for the future.

"You don't agree?  That's why someone like you shouldn't have a say in managerial matters.  Wow!"

[RU SERIOUS]

Once Miller is traded in a few weeks before his NTC kicks in and we're no longer stuck with him until early in the next decade of the 2030's when he's way over the hill and pushing 40, things will begin to fall into place.   

 

Aside from BB6 and Garland, he's one of the very few trade chips that JR can play to get us out of the cap mess he put us in by signing JTM & BB6 in the first place last year when they both should have been traded - which just compounded more bad signings upon JB's bad signings of the past.  I seem to see the same JB pattern continuing with this new regime and it's making many "normal" Canucks fans nervous.