Popular Post HKSR Posted June 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: So at the cost of 22nd OA, a 2nd and a 3rd they got two top 4 D men. This is the reason people objected to buying Hronek at the most expensive time exacerbating our cap issues. Had nothing to do with Hronek as a player or the fact that he plugs a hole. In the flat cap era there are sweet deals to be made with some cap flexibility. With cap flexibility and assets we could have filled multiple holes and maybe got rid of some of our problem players. So they paid... A 1st and a 2nd for Provorov. A 3rd for a UFA that they could have signed for free in July. How is that so much better than a 1st and a 2nd for Hronek (who's a RHD which is much, much more valuable than a LHD)? 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: So at the cost of 22nd OA, a 2nd and a 3rd they got two top 4 D men. This is the reason people objected to buying Hronek at the most expensive time exacerbating our cap issues. Had nothing to do with Hronek as a player or the fact that he plugs a hole. In the flat cap era there are sweet deals to be made with some cap flexibility. With cap flexibility and assets we could have filled multiple holes and maybe got rid of some of our problem players. That 2nd top 4 D-man they got was a UFA in like 3 weeks and they overpaid in cap for him. So if you're gonna tell a story tell it properly. Nobody would say "So Allvin got two top 4 d-men for a 1st and a 2nd" if he signed a top 4 UFA this summer. They traded a 3rd rounder for a guy they could have signed for no picks literally in 3 weeks. All this trade did was give Severson an extra year that he didn't even deserve. He's not worth 6.25mil imo. Especially at 8 years. Dude doesn't even deserve a 7 year contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, HKSR said: So they paid... A 1st and a 2nd for Provorov. A 3rd for a UFA that they could have signed for free in July. How is that so much better than a 1st and a 2nd for Hronek (who's a RHD which is much, much more valuable than a LHD)? Hronek deal was a great deal Bo + 2nd for Hronek + Beauvillier + Raty + 4th Nobody can look at that objectively after seeing Bo's performance and say it was a bad deal Moving out Bo and getting a top-4 RHD would already have been a really good trade The fact that we got Raty and Beauvillier out of it is the icing on the cake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 minute ago, N7Nucks said: That 2nd top 4 D-man they got was a UFA in like 3 weeks and they overpaid in cap for him. So if you're gonna tell a story tell it properly. Nobody would say "So Allvin got two top 4 d-men for a 1st and a 2nd" if he signed a top 4 UFA this summer. They traded a 3rd rounder for a guy they could have signed for no picks literally in 3 weeks. All this trade did was give Severson an extra year that he didn't even deserve. He's not worth 6.25mil imo. Especially at 8 years. Dude doesn't even deserve a 7 year contract. My biggest potential issue with Severson is that I think that he benefited from being on an incredible team playing a great system I dont think he ends up looking as good on a weaker team I still think we run it back with the group we've got on D for a year. Do not buy out OEL. If he can play like he did in 2021, hes worth 5m, and a top-4 LD, and we'll actually be pretty good. OEL-Hronek for the tough minutes (i expect they'll be better than OEL-Myers, Hronek is better than Myers in every way except girafeness and chaos creation) Hughes-Bear feasting on weaker opponents. Hughes gets 22-23 minutes a night incl. all 1st powerplay unit time, Bear gets 16-17 mins a night. They get most of their 5v5 time in offensive zone starts. Hirose-Myers - they looked good together at the end of the season Then the following year hopefully Filip Johansson can graduate to 3rd pairing RD role. If OEL didn't bounce back, THEN we buy him out and use the combined Myers + OEL money to grab a really solid top-4 option. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Maybe we could trade Miller for Roslovic, Gudbranson (if not on his 10 team list), and 3rd overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EB43 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 We totally would have given them Myers for the 3rd… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 CBJ are going for it and good for them, they'll be better than us next year. Provorov, Severson, Werenski, Bean, Peeke - one of the best D in the business. They just need a good defensive coach though because they all have some cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 minute ago, DownUndaCanuck said: CBJ are going for it and good for them, they'll be better than us next year. Provorov, Severson, Werenski, Bean, Peeke - one of the best D in the business. They just need a good defensive coach though because they all have some cracks. Rumors are they're after Babcock. I can't wait for Gaudreau to get some of that coaching love. Gonna wish he stayed in Calgary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Just now, N7Nucks said: Rumors are they're after Babcock. I can't wait for Gaudreau to get some of that coaching love. Gonna wish he stayed in Calgary. Lol no kidding... Laine is gonna love it too. Not to mention Roslovic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 34 minutes ago, HKSR said: So they paid... A 1st and a 2nd for Provorov. A 3rd for a UFA that they could have signed for free in July. How is that so much better than a 1st and a 2nd for Hronek (who's a RHD which is much, much more valuable than a LHD)? Then let’s tell the whole story they got Provorov with 2years on a contract and 30% retention for 22nd and a second. A worse pic and retention. That is a significantly better deal. They got Severson because they were able to get an 8th year by doing a sign and trade. Let’s not keep playing these things up as oh he just would have gone there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, HKSR said: Lol no kidding... Laine is gonna love it too. Not to mention Roslovic. "LAINE, YOU'RE 6'5. BLOCK A DAMN SHOT OR HIT SOMETHING" "Nooooooo " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Then let’s tell the whole story they got Provorov with 2years on a contract and 30% retention for 22nd and a second. A worse pic and retention. That is a significantly better deal. They got Severson because they were able to get an 8th year by doing a sign and trade. Let’s not keep playing these things up as oh he just would have gone there anyway. Provorov is not equal to Hronek. Hronek is a RHD, arguably the most difficult position to fill in the NHL. There is a premium automatically added. You make it seem as though adding an 8th year to the deal is a good thing?? I'm pretty sure CLB rather only pay him for 7 years lol. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP Phone Home Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Looks like CBJ have their right side on the D assembled pretty well. Having Guddy as a spare tire at 4 million a season for the next two years is a “real gud look” WERENSKI-$9,583,333 Cap Hit PROVOROV-$4,725,000 Cap Hit SEVERSON-$6,250,000 GUDBRANSON-$4,000,000 Cap Hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Cap hit is great term is 2 to 3 years too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, HKSR said: So they paid... A 1st and a 2nd for Provorov. A 3rd for a UFA that they could have signed for free in July. How is that so much better than a 1st and a 2nd for Hronek (who's a RHD which is much, much more valuable than a LHD)? Who knows the cost of Hronek's extension when he is in the Tkachuk, DeBrincat, PLD situation in a year. Allan Walsh knows he has all the leverage. It's also 17th vs 22nd. What's the cost to move up those 5 spots. NYI's pick was an unknown at the time of the trade. It was only top-12 protected and unprotected in 2024. Here they knew it was 22nd overall - that removes the risk of handing over an unprotected pick. Bad teams often have to overpay to sign the players they want in free agency. Vancouver had to for quite some time, where they had to pay more, add extra years and hand out trade clauses to even bottom of the lineup players like Benn, Beagle, Roussel. Would he really have signed with CBJ in free agency when they can't give him that 8th year. They had the 2nd worse record this season + they just hired Babcock (which could be seen as a negative). Edited June 9, 2023 by mll 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said: Looks like CBJ have their right side on the D assembled pretty well. Having Guddy as a spare tire at 4 million a season for the next two years is a “real gud look” WERENSKI-$9,583,333 Cap Hit PROVOROV-$4,725,000 Cap Hit SEVERSON-$6,250,000 GUDBRANSON-$4,000,000 Cap Hit They also have Boqvist at $2.6M. My guess is their D pairs will look like: Werenski-Peeke, Provorov-Severson, Bean-Boqvist, and with Blankenburg and Gudbranson as extras. I doubt they will find a taker for Gudbranson unless they retain. I suppose they could demote Gudbranson to save $1.125M in cap and run with only 1 spare D. It's a strong D core. They're still severely lacking at C though. Jenner was their #1C last year, and Roslovic is a low quality 2C. If Kent Johnson and/or Cole Sillinger show significant improvement, then they might be fine, but that's a lot to expect for very young players. It would also be a lot to expect for either Carlsson or Fantilli to step in right away as a 1C or 2C. It will be interesting to see how they address there lack of C depth. I doubt they would trade their 3OA but could they have interest in Miller? I know this has been discussed before but it is an intriguing question. Miller and his $8M cap hit are actually not that bad when considering this summer's FA market. If CBJ is really going all in and if they are convinced Miller is a full-time C, then he's a good option for them. If the Canucks don't push for the 3OA but are willing to take players back, then maybe CBJ may be more willing to make a deal? Something along the lines of Miller (or Miller+) for Johnson/Sillinger, Roslovic, Ceulemans, (and maybe another piece?)? The Canucks get a blue chip and very young C prospect, someone to play 3C, a very good RHD prospect, and some cap space (and Roslovic is a UFA next year which opens up room for Raty to make the jump or money for a FA signing). CBJ keeps their 3OA but receives a major upgrade at the C position from Roslovic and keeps one of Johnson/Sillinger. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 minute ago, mll said: Who knows the cost of Hronek's extension when he is in the Tkachuk, DeBrincat, PLD situation in a year. Allan Walsh knows he has all the leverage. It's also 17th vs 22nd. What's the cost to move up those 5 spots. NYI's pick was an unknown at the time of the trade. It was only top-12 protected and unprotected in 2024. Here they knew it was 22nd overall - that removes the risk of handing over an unprotected pick. They also have a good idea of who could be available around that number while that NYI pick could have been anywhere between 12th and 18th (- can't imagine anyone thought they'd make the final 4). Bad teams often have to overpay to sign the players they want in free agency. Vancouver had to for quite some time, where they had to pay more, add extra years and hand out trade clauses to even bottom of the lineup players like Benn, Beagle, Roussel. Would he really have signed with CBJ in free agency when they can't give him that 8th year. They had the 2nd worse record this seaso + they just hired Babcock (which might be more of a negative). Lots of hypothetical info here. About the same kind of info as we can quantify for the premium on a RHD vs LHD at a particular point in time in the NHL. Not sure what a Hronek extension has to do with a trade. Completely different event as we're only talking about trade values, but thanks for your 2 cents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, HKSR said: Lots of hypothetical info here. About the same kind of info as we can quantify for the premium on a RHD vs LHD at a particular point in time in the NHL. Not sure what a Hronek extension has to do with a trade. Completely different event as we're only talking about trade values, but thanks for your 2 cents Player value is also dependent on their contracts - it's a cap world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Just now, mll said: Player value is also dependent on their contracts - it's a cap world. Future extensions have no bearing on their value assessment right now. We don't know what's gonna happen 1 or 2 years down the road. What we do know is that Hronek's cap hit is $4.4M, Provorov is $4.725M. What we do know is that Hronek is a RHD, Provorov is a LHD. What we do know is that Hronek was coming off his best year. Provorov has been on a downward trend the past 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Then let’s tell the whole story they got Provorov with 2years on a contract and 30% retention for 22nd and a second. A worse pic and retention. That is a significantly better deal. They got Severson because they were able to get an 8th year by doing a sign and trade. Let’s not keep playing these things up as oh he just would have gone there anyway. At this point you're just being negative for the sake of being negative. In no way are the Columbus moves much better than the Hronek deal despite the mental gymnastics you're attempting here. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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