Timråfan Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, tas said: who do you allege was providing these kickbacks to benning? whose pocket was that money coming out of? Agents is most probably since there he got most contacts, both by himself and by his father. Some don’t need much to be corrupted and some think many small streams becomes a river… Don’t say you never seen corruption in your life. I’ve seen a lot of it in Sweden and when swedes are talked about around the world they are one of the least corrupt, way below USA. Canada might be better but just as neigbour to US is got to be infectous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Agents is most probably since there he got most contacts, both by himself and by his father. Some don’t need much to be corrupted and some think many small streams becomes a river… Don’t say you never seen corruption in your life. I’ve seen a lot of it in Sweden and when swedes are talked about around the world they are one of the least corrupt, way below USA. Canada might be better but just as neigbour to US is got to be infectous. you think he'd risk not only his career but the hugely public fallout over some tiny fraction of an agent's 5% cut? get real. not to mention the agent risking his accreditation and reputation. fantasyland. edit: not to mention, your economic model is broken. what's in it for the agent? he only cares that his client is getting a bigger ticket because it means his cut goes up. if he has to pay out of his own pocket to make that happen, he's not getting anywhere. Edited June 17, 2023 by tas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Hirose did look good but look at these playoff top 4 defences...they don't exactly have some kid from college in there, they have veteran 25-35 year old 20+ minute 6'3" 200lb+ beasts. Hirose or Rathbone pair really nicely on our bottom pairing with Myers or Burroughs on the right but they have to be the low minute man at around 15-17 mins a night, asking them to play on the 2nd pairing will be far too much of a responsibility. We've got to put them in positions to succeed and that's mostly 5 on 5 agains opposing team's bottom 2 lines and 2nd unit PP, no PK and never on the ice against stars. It is early in the preseason but yeah it is very concerning that our D got smaller. We aren’t a contender unless something truly crazy happens so it is perfect time to develop Hirose who showed well or Rathbone (I think he goes in some sort of trade package). Wolanin will be in a depth role. On the right Hronek coming off a major injury and opted for conservative therapy on shoulder who though fairly small plays a fairly nasty game. Hopefully the shoulder doesn’t take the snarl out of his game. One guy with size and it is Myers. That is very concerning. I expect some crazy sh1t this off-season. They aren’t rolling with a D that looks anything like it does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: If you have good management who can get guys into the lineup on cheap ELC’s and UFA’s on the cheap then you don’t need to worry about an extra $1.75 million. Perfect examples are Dakota Joshua and Nils Aman. Both under $1 million and play a key role on the 4th line. Kuzmenko was another guy brought in at under $1 million. Now he’s a 40 goal scorer and he’s still on a relatively cheap contract even after an extension. As long as you don’t overpay for UFA’s you are fine. New Jersey has almost $3 million in dead cap this year. I am pretty sure they will be competing for the cup. Edmonton has almost $2 million for the next 2 years. Are they not chasing the cup? LA also has almost $3 million for the next 2 years. Florida has dead cap. Then there are teams that don’t have dead cap but have overpriced contracts on their books that are eating up cap space. Every team has problems. At the end of the day, we needed to free up cap space in order to get players to help us into the playoffs and beyond. They explored trading some bad contracts and couldn’t move anyone without major sweeteners attached. They already made trades to dill some holes but don’t have any more money to fill the rest of the holes. Something had to give. They obviously felt that OEL was not the player they wanted in their top 4 defence. And they didn’t want him as an anchor on the 3rd pairing for the next 4 years. So they decided to buy him out. It’s not the most ideal thing, but it was the lesser of all of the other evils to try and improve this team into a playoff team… All of the teams you mentioned are losing depth this coming year because of that dead cap. Likely significant pieces too. As usual we can't see the future, but until one of those teams wins a cup with dead cap on the roster, I'm sticking to my stance that dead cap = no cup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 37 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Hirose did look good but look at these playoff top 4 defences...they don't exactly have some kid from college in there, they have veteran 25-35 year old 20+ minute 6'3" 200lb+ beasts. Hirose or Rathbone pair really nicely on our bottom pairing with Myers or Burroughs on the right but they have to be the low minute man at around 15-17 mins a night, asking them to play on the 2nd pairing will be far too much of a responsibility. We've got to put them in positions to succeed and that's mostly 5 on 5 agains opposing team's bottom 2 lines and 2nd unit PP, no PK and never on the ice against stars. Exactly; this team now NEEDS a full 2nd pair of NHL caliber dmen if they want to sniff the playoffs. Like OEL or not; he was a mediocre #2 dman on a bad contract. In my opinion, he was serviceable with the right partner in the #2 pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: It is early in the preseason but yeah it is very concerning that our D got smaller. We aren’t a contender unless something truly crazy happens so it is perfect time to develop Hirose who showed well or Rathbone (I think he goes in some sort of trade package). Wolanin will be in a depth role. On the right Hronek coming off a major injury and opted for conservative therapy on shoulder who though fairly small plays a fairly nasty game. Hopefully the shoulder doesn’t take the snarl out of his game. One guy with size and it is Myers. That is very concerning. I expect some crazy sh1t this off-season. They aren’t rolling with a D that looks anything like it does now. We said that last summer; they ran with it☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 26 minutes ago, tas said: you think he'd risk not only his career but the hugely public fallout over some tiny fraction of an agent's 5% cut? get real. not to mention the agent risking his accreditation and reputation. fantasyland. edit: not to mention, your economic model is broken. what's in it for the agent? he only cares that his client is getting a bigger ticket because it means his cut goes up. if he has to pay out of his own pocket to make that happen, he's not getting anywhere. Well, if life were as easy as you say no one would be corrupt. People get corrupted when they believe no one will find out. Benning with his save face persona fits that profile. The long run it’s many things that can be involved. Promises to sign another player if so etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Nobody likes the dead cap but you know have a lot of leverage with cap space to make moves at a time where cap space is the most valuable it has ever been. Next year the relative value of cap space is going to plummet. Now is the time to leverage it. Use the space to pry free a young D that is poised to step up from a team like LA or NJ who have a surplus. Use it instead of that extra pic in a hockey trade to upgrade a winger to a C or D. If you need to take a little higher contract for a more useful player you can make it work now. For once we need to weaponize the cap space ruthlessly because there will never be a better opportunity to capitalize on cap space as an asset. Stay the F!&# out of the UFA market. Signing a UFA gets you worst possible return on the asset at this particular time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 37 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: It is early in the preseason but yeah it is very concerning that our D got smaller. We aren’t a contender unless something truly crazy happens so it is perfect time to develop Hirose who showed well or Rathbone (I think he goes in some sort of trade package). Wolanin will be in a depth role. On the right Hronek coming off a major injury and opted for conservative therapy on shoulder who though fairly small plays a fairly nasty game. Hopefully the shoulder doesn’t take the snarl out of his game. One guy with size and it is Myers. That is very concerning. I expect some crazy sh1t this off-season. They aren’t rolling with a D that looks anything like it does now. Yeah I think Allvin has a lot left up his sleeves. I'm pretty concerned about Hronek after his injury, I doubt he'll be the same physically. He looked good in the games he was paired with a decent partner but struggled when he had to control a pairing by himself so I don't think putting him with a kid is the right time - he needs a solid partner who can hold his own. That leaves Hughes obviously all by himself. We can't even rely on the easy option of Bear anymore. PA has some big moves to make, but now he has a bit of cap to play with. I'm hoping for one UFA defenceman signing, one defenceman via a trade and hopefully a 3C via the easy free agency option or a winger trade. Got a feeling it's going to be a very active period just before and after the draft, I think PA will make some moves at the draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Kings Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 This is very frustrating. The OEL acquisition is Benning's fault, but for 2 years , they have extened Miller,Boeser,Kuzmenko and acquired Mikheyev and Hronik WITHOUT clearing significant cap space first! That's on Allvin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, The King of Kings said: This is very frustrating. The OEL acquisition is Benning's fault, but for 2 years , they have extened Miller,Boeser,Kuzmenko and acquired Mikheyev and Hronik WITHOUT clearing significant cap space first! That's on Allvin. Boeser and Mikheyev are the real head scratchers. Had he not signed both, we’d be looking at 11.65m in open cap this offseason without having to complete costly buyouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 29 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Yeah I think Allvin has a lot left up his sleeves. I'm pretty concerned about Hronek after his injury, I doubt he'll be the same physically. He looked good in the games he was paired with a decent partner but struggled when he had to control a pairing by himself so I don't think putting him with a kid is the right time - he needs a solid partner who can hold his own. That leaves Hughes obviously all by himself. We can't even rely on the easy option of Bear anymore. PA has some big moves to make, but now he has a bit of cap to play with. I'm hoping for one UFA defenceman signing, one defenceman via a trade and hopefully a 3C via the easy free agency option or a winger trade. Got a feeling it's going to be a very active period just before and after the draft, I think PA will make some moves at the draft day. I agree….sad reality is it is probably bye bye time for our 11th OAL. Very disappointing for our future given the depth of the draft this year and potentially no picks until the 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, BC_Hawk said: I agree….sad reality is it is probably bye bye time for our 11th OAL. Very disappointing for our future given the depth of the draft this year and potentially no picks until the 3rd round. We can still move out one of our 5 mill wingers and with the ltir guys should have 15-17 mill to allow for 2 d and a 3C 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, flat land fish said: We can still move out one of our 5 mill wingers and with the ltir guys should have 15-17 mill to allow for 2 d and a 3C Yeah looks like Cap Friendly has us at 12M now in cap space assuming we use up all our LTIR which we probably will. That's a tonne of cash to play with. We have our forward group pretty set, just need a 3C which should cost us around 2-3M depending on who we target. Technically that doesn't look like it includes a backup goalie so Martin or Silovs or Delia is surely under 1M. The big hole is defence. We don't even have Burroughs signed. Plenty of decent bottom pairing options, on the left, Wolanin, Hirose and Rathbone have to take the cake. On the right, Burroughs and Myers should fill the hole. We have Brisebois signed but surely he stays in Abby next year rather than our bottom pairing LD. So that's around 8-9M to spend on two defencemen. It certainly can be done. I don't think PA has the balls to trade the 11OA for a young RD but would anyone be mad if he snagged us Peeke or Schneider for 11OA? Same argument as goes for Hronek - why draft one who could take years and may not pan out when we could just acquire one now? Both are quite cheap. Then we go and sign a solid LD like Graves for 5-6M. Even with Peeke (2.5M) we're under cap. Lots of options, PA is making is mark on this team. This is a big off-season for him. Really is playoff or bust now, we're slowly chipping away at our future for the immediate but if all of this doesn't pay off and we don't make the playoffs, we'll be in trouble down the line for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtbc829 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 they were fracked the moment JB did that deal....now OEL will probably sign with tampa for a league min. and win a stanley cup.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Yeah looks like Cap Friendly has us at 12M now in cap space assuming we use up all our LTIR which we probably will. That's a tonne of cash to play with. We have our forward group pretty set, just need a 3C which should cost us around 2-3M depending on who we target. Technically that doesn't look like it includes a backup goalie so Martin or Silovs or Delia is surely under 1M. The big hole is defence. We don't even have Burroughs signed. Plenty of decent bottom pairing options, on the left, Wolanin, Hirose and Rathbone have to take the cake. On the right, Burroughs and Myers should fill the hole. We have Brisebois signed but surely he stays in Abby next year rather than our bottom pairing LD. So that's around 8-9M to spend on two defencemen. It certainly can be done. I don't think PA has the balls to trade the 11OA for a young RD but would anyone be mad if he snagged us Peeke or Schneider for 11OA? Same argument as goes for Hronek - why draft one who could take years and may not pan out when we could just acquire one now? Both are quite cheap. Then we go and sign a solid LD like Graves for 5-6M. Even with Peeke (2.5M) we're under cap. Lots of options, PA is making is mark on this team. This is a big off-season for him. Really is playoff or bust now, we're slowly chipping away at our future for the immediate but if all of this doesn't pay off and we don't make the playoffs, we'll be in trouble down the line for sure. The 3C Spot I’m curious if they’ll trade for one that has 1-2 years of term remaining or sign a veteran willing to take a shorter contract if they like Raty and project he will back fill that role after seasoning in Abby for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Yeah looks like Cap Friendly has us at 12M now in cap space assuming we use up all our LTIR which we probably will. That's a tonne of cash to play with. We have our forward group pretty set, just need a 3C which should cost us around 2-3M depending on who we target. Technically that doesn't look like it includes a backup goalie so Martin or Silovs or Delia is surely under 1M. The big hole is defence. We don't even have Burroughs signed. Plenty of decent bottom pairing options, on the left, Wolanin, Hirose and Rathbone have to take the cake. On the right, Burroughs and Myers should fill the hole. We have Brisebois signed but surely he stays in Abby next year rather than our bottom pairing LD. So that's around 8-9M to spend on two defencemen. It certainly can be done. I don't think PA has the balls to trade the 11OA for a young RD but would anyone be mad if he snagged us Peeke or Schneider for 11OA? Same argument as goes for Hronek - why draft one who could take years and may not pan out when we could just acquire one now? Both are quite cheap. Then we go and sign a solid LD like Graves for 5-6M. Even with Peeke (2.5M) we're under cap. Lots of options, PA is making is mark on this team. This is a big off-season for him. Really is playoff or bust now, we're slowly chipping away at our future for the immediate but if all of this doesn't pay off and we don't make the playoffs, we'll be in trouble down the line for sure. I’m thinking this management actually plans ahead, unlike the “day to day” no plan of the previous one. So at 11OA Allvin is likely getting the d prospect he needs to come play on his elc just as the two 4.8 cap hit years are happening from the OEL buyout. Trading 11OA for a guy coming out of his elc or one who is going to earn 4-6 per isn’t in that kind of plan. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, flat land fish said: The 3C Spot I’m curious if they’ll trade for one that has 1-2 years of term remaining or sign a veteran willing to take a shorter contract if they like Raty and project he will back fill that role after seasoning in Abby for this year. Guys on 650 were talking about a potential Garland swap for a similarly paid 3C. Maybe Pageau? He’s older but still plays good. He was better than Horvat in their recent playoff appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Guys on 650 were talking about a potential Garland swap for a similarly paid 3C. Maybe Pageau? He’s older but still plays good. He was better than Horvat in their recent playoff appearance. I could get on board with something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 17 hours ago, nuckin_futz said: We've all heard of teams buying out their mistakes. Is there another instance of a team buying out a mistake they traded for? Keith Ballard - Gillis 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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