Charmin/soft?

[Mando27]

It's hard to judge the teams toughness based on the number of hits. The Canucks usually outhit the opponents on most nights last year but they also were always chasing the puck.

[bishopshodan]

Lots of people think Tocchets toughness will translate to the players he coaches.

 

I know he does not have the best head coaching record but have his past teams been know as really tough? hard working, hard to phsycally play against? 

 

He pissed me off at the end of last season.

Kuz is a player full of confidence, energy, and real skill. However, It felt like those big smiles and fan favourite energy rubbed Tocchet the wrong way. Kuz is not a tough Tocchet type player so he got the pine. Meanwhile Dakota Joshua got played too much.

Rick has the attitude that if you're not hardnosed, how dare you have bravado... such as Andrei.

Kuz missed out on scoring 40 in his first year. Because of this coach farting around.

 

Be better this year Rick. You have been nepo-given a great squad.

 

[Fred65]

57 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I don't equate being soft to not fighting (or even hitting) much...it's overall physicality for me. The quality of hits matters to me as much as quantity. Timing and whether or not it pulls a guy out of the play. Finishing checks, being hard to move off the puck, etc.

 

I do hope that Soucy uses his size a bit more/better than Myers does...it's few and far between with Myers but he certainly has the capability to lay out some huge hits. I used to love it when Edler stood guys up at the blueline...more of that kind of toughness.

 

Myers uses his stick and throws his body on the ice like a speedbump more often than he moves guys off the puck physically. I like him best when he engages more.

You some times have to feel for giants like Myers or maybe Soucy, to often they get called for a head hit becuase of their height

[Trebreh]

Although Soucy doesn’t hit and fight as much as Luke did, he is more annoying and frustrating to play against because he slashes, face washes and always get into scrums. He’s also not afraid to target the oppositions top players with borderline shit haha. I saw a vid of him on YouTube sneaky slew footing Draisaitl behind the play lol.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

28 minutes ago, Mando27 said:

It's hard to judge the teams toughness based on the number of hits. The Canucks usually outhit the opponents on most nights last year but they also were always chasing the puck.

Canucks were also top-5 in the league in fighting majors, with 34 (the most was 37) last season, but I don’t imagine many teams were intimidated or deterred by Vancouver’s “toughness.”

[PhillipBlunt]

I think that the team is trying to instil a team wide toughness approach. I would have been more than happy with Schenn being signed here for what he received in Nashville. Alas it wasn’t meant to be. 

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Canucks were also top-5 in the league in fighting majors, with 34 (the most was 37) last season, but I don’t imagine many teams were intimidated or deterred by Vancouver’s “toughness.”

One of my favourite sayings is '...the strength of the wolf, is the pack'

 

I hope for the day that all our guys get into it if needed, to back up teammates

[ilduce39]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

One of my favourite sayings is '...the strength of the wolf, is the pack'

 

I hope for the day that all our guys get into it if needed, to back up teammates

That’s been an issue for us - star or young players get roughed up and no one responds.  
 

We’ve had guys willing to fight - but have lacked that mentality.  Big job for the leaders / coaches to work on.  

Being a more confident / successful hockey team should help.

[alt kilgore]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Schenn is slow, Burroughs is barely an NHL player. The Canucks improved their D yesterday.  That's all I need to know. 

 

 

 

 

Sure.  Thats why he just signed a three year contract with San Jose, a Pacific rival who saw a lot of him.

Kyle may have been that when he first came to the Canucks, but he was steadily improving in his defensive play until both BB and RT had no qualms pairing him with Hughes when needed. You could see that on the ice, if you honestly were watching his play.  Locking up for three years, only 1.3 per season, for such a solid, improved, D who hits and defends well as a 5/6 D who can also  play both  sides and trusted to move up the lines if needed? Priceless.  For a GM looking for value pieces to round out his roster, so he can then afford higher priced talent.

 

I love Cole, he's a beast. But he's also older, and his one year is almost as much as Kyle for three. When the OEL penalty is the highest, Cole will probably be gone, and have to be replaced.

 

I know about, and share, all the excitement about the new D coming in.  Its nice to believe that the grass is always greener. Hope is eternal.  I remember Gudbranson, Sbisa, Pouliot, Del Zoto, Sautner, Dipietro, Poolman.....  But with a proven, now veteran, value for the $, piece like Burroughs, its just smart to hang on to him.  IMHO, it would have been wise to use Kyle, as San Jose will probably be doing, as a cheap, but solid physical and reliable, lower paired D and not worry about filling that position for 3 more seasons.

 

I like the improvement overall in size on D.  Kyle wasn't the biggest D.  But he greatly outperformed physically the 6' 6"  Myers so for him, I don't think size was a problem. I'm not unhappy with who we picked up on D. And on paper, we have improved.  But Kyle already knew the system and team, it will take time for new players to adjust. But they will, and I wish nothing but the best for them, and the Canucks defensive play improves.  i have every reason to believe it will.  Our D was broken, but its just odd to me to be throwing away the one reliable piece that was working above his pay grade.

 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Devron said:

Myers could have been a fan favourite. The bone crushing hits on Tavares and Keith as example. The playoffs in the bubble. Problem is he plays scared, he gets in trouble with the refs. He often gets penalties for just being too big. He would have benefited for a mentor with similar size. He just doesn’t know how to use it properly and honestly I think the refs screw him a lot of the times 

I think it's more on Myers than the refs. As a bigger player he's got to make the commitment and extra effort to get low or square and make a legal hit. It's mostly just laziness and low iq.

[Devron]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think it's more on Myers than the refs. As a bigger player he's got to make the commitment and extra effort to get low or square and make a legal hit. It's mostly just laziness and low iq.

Yeah it goes both ways for sure. That’s why I suggested that a mentor of his size would have benefited him when he was younger. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Devron

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

32 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

One of my favourite sayings is '...the strength of the wolf, is the pack'

 

I hope for the day that all our guys get into it if needed, to back up teammates

Yeah, there’s definitely something to the “pack” mentality and every man taking it upon himself to immediately defend his teammate from harm.

 

I got the sense last season that, while the Canucks had a lot of fights, a great number of them weren’t necessarily guys stepping up immediately when their teammates were targeted for abuse, but rather, it was often guys like Burroughs or Schenn taking it upon themselves to fight, often several shifts after some garbage play, to change the tone/temperature of the game, because too many offences against teammates were going unpunished/unchecked and without any reactions from guys actually on the ice at the time.

 

Can’t really back any of that up with data. Just felt like there were a lot of times when there wasn’t an immediate response. And too few guys were actually willing to step up for each other in the moment.

 

EDIT: I can remember times when some of our younger guys and/or skilled players got flattened by opponents and the response was… nothing. That never sat right with me. I understand being disciplined when you’re in a playoff race or a tight series and you can’t afford a penalty. But when you’re a losing team, you’re basically playing for pride and for each other. So there should be some unwritten rules and automatic responses: touch the goalie, the skilled guys, or the kids, and you will pay the price. That type of team response seemed to be missing from a lot of games last season. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think it's more on Myers than the refs. As a bigger player he's got to make the commitment and extra effort to get low or square and make a legal hit. It's mostly just laziness and low iq.

I disagree.

As long as it's not predatory any tall player should just have to keep their elbows in and throw hits like any other player.

 

See, cause you don't need to be tall. Sometimes players are in vulnerable positions and head contact happens. Like the blown call on the clean hit by Tkachuk on Eichel.

Tkachuk isn't real tall but he nailed Eichel high due to circumstances. Keep your head up should still be a mantra in hockey. 

 

I'm just saying that I dont believe big guys should have to adjust due to the size of others. 

[EdgarM]

35 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Lots of people think Tocchets toughness will translate to the players he coaches.

 

I know he does not have the best head coaching record but have his past teams been know as really tough? hard working, hard to phsycally play against? 

 

He pissed me off at the end of last season.

Kuz is a player full of confidence, energy, and real skill. However, It felt like those big smiles and fan favourite energy rubbed Tocchet the wrong way. Kuz is not a tough Tocchet type player so he got the pine. Meanwhile Dakota Joshua got played too much.

Rick has the attitude that if you're not hardnosed, how dare you have bravado... such as Andrei.

Kuz missed out on scoring 40 in his first year. Because of this coach farting around.

 

Be better this year Rick. You have been nepo-given a great squad.

 

This is the exact problem this team has had for decades, making excuses for our players. They need to take responsibility, full responsibility. I don't care if your Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi, Henrik Sedin or Elias Pettersson. All need to be responsible in the Ozone and the Dzone, and finish your checks.

We have been giving passes to the skilled guys, saying things like, well the Sedins didn't lay out big hits but they sure could take hits. What?

We have had teams where we allowed these excuses and so we ended up with a team which did not commit for a full 60 minutes, didn't need to finish checks and skated away when our team mates got into trouble. What a bad culture which seemed was never going to end. 

In comes the new management and coaches. 

All of a suddden, we are taking care of the things we needed to do decades ago. Full effort, follow a structure and play like a team.

Last year we went through an assessment period to see who was going to play like a team or not and follow a team structure.

Kuzmenko needed to learn to play this sructure and realize he is not an untouchable and above the team. Be part of a " New Culture". 

If you don't like this style of coaching ,  I suggest you move over to the Leafs or the Oilers chat forums, they seem to coddle their stars the way you seem we should treat ours.

 

 

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

This is the exact problem this team has had for decades, making excuses for our players. They need to take responsibility, full responsibility. I don't care if your Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi, Henrik Sedin or Elias Pettersson. All need to be responsible in the Ozone and the Dzone, and finish your checks.

We have been giving passes to the skilled guys, saying things like, well the Sedins didn't lay out big hits but they sure could take hits. What?

We have had teams where we allowed these excuses and so we ended up with a team which did not commit for a full 60 minutes, didn't need to finish checks and skated away when our team mates got into trouble. What a bad culture which seemed was never going to end. 

In comes the new management and coaches. 

All of a suddden, we are taking care of the things we needed to do decades ago. Full effort, follow a structure and play like a team.

Last year we went through an assessment period to see who was going to play like a team or not and follow a team structure.

Kuzmenko needed to learn to play this sructure and realize he is not an untouchable and above the team. Be part of a " New Culture". 

If you don't like this style of coaching ,  I suggest you move over to the Leafs or the Oilers chat forums, they seem to coddle their stars the way you seem we should treat ours.

 

 

Nah.

Kuz is awesome. Hope this coach doesn't scare him away.

Also, Sedins were tough studs.

What else...oh, yeah...you go to the F'in leafs or Oliers forums/

[Gawdzukes]

20 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I disagree.

As long as it's not predatory any tall player should just have to keep their elbows in and throw hits like any other player.

 

See, cause you don't need to be tall. Sometimes players are in vulnerable positions and head contact happens. Like the blown call on the clean hit by Tkachuk on Eichel.

Tkachuk isn't real tall but he nailed Eichel high due to circumstances. Keep your head up should still be a mantra in hockey. 

 

I'm just saying that I dont believe big guys should have to adjust due to the size of others. 

Agree to disagree. The rule book is quite clear. You can't use your height advantage and just hit people in the head because you're tall. In those situations their height is a disadvantage and they have to adjust accordingly or be penalized. It just takes some extra effort and fitness ... which is where Myers quite often fails.

 

But yeah, players should always have their heads up too.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Angry Goose]

Quinton Burns went 1 pick ahead of HunterB. He’s a guy that would have been really nice to have in the system 

[bishopshodan]

9 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Agree to disagree. The rule book is quite clear. You can't use your height advantage and just hit people in the head because you're tall. In those situations their height is a disadvantage and they have to adjust accordingly or be penalized. It just takes some extra effort and fitness ... which is where Myers quite often fails.

 

But yeah, players should always have their heads up too.

I mentioned that ' as long as it is not preditory'  but thank you for the rule interpretation. 

 

I dont find it fair. I would love to see players over 7ft one day...what the hell do they do with a Garland? the adjustment needed to smack the little dude would be too much to be effective.

[Phil_314]

3 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

i want two smashy bangy Bennett type agitating piles of crap that can play really well, plus one nuclear deterrent that can hit like a truck and nobody in their right mind would fight.

 

That is all. Thank you.

I agree with these as the next type of guys to add up front.  The closest we have to that kind of pushback up front would be Joshua, and I'm being generous (he's agitating and has spurts of good play, but it'd be optimal if they were in our top-6, e.g. move a Boeser/ Garland/ Beauvillier for them).    

[Gawdzukes]

30 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I mentioned that ' as long as it is not preditory'  but thank you for the rule interpretation. 

 

I dont find it fair. I would love to see players over 7ft one day...what the hell do they do with a Garland? the adjustment needed to smack the little dude would be too much to be effective.

I kind of get what you're saying but at the same time I think it works fine except for the odd weird play here or there. I don't really think it would be fair at all that tall guys can head shot (trying to get that out of the game) and small players can't. You can have 7 foot tall guys you just can't hit a player in the head. For a good athlete that's not a problem. For an out of shape tall guy, who may naturally struggle with fitness, it is. Similarly Garland can't go around chop blocking players either just because he's small.

 

Reminds me of a baseball tidbit ... back in the day the strike zone was between the armpits and the knees. They actually started bringing in midgets that used a crunched stance. The strike zone got so small no one could hit it and they would draw walks all game long. Eventually they made short players illegal I believe.

 

https://www.stumptheump.com/answers/height-requirement-in-major-league-baseball

 

With Garland that's obviously one advantage to being small. You're hard to hit but it's certainly not impossible for a good athlete to come in low and with control.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Gawdzukes