SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I am confused as to why people keep saying Sutter is a shutdown guy, has grit etc.....All I have read from Pens board is that he is the exact opposite of that...isn't physical, does not bring grit or use his size. However, all you have to do is look at the linemates he played with last season (garbage) and he still put up 21 goals. But if you guys are thinking he is some great shutdown center, the fans who have watched him for 2 years say the exact opposite. Take what Pens fans are saying right now with a grain of salt. Just over a year ago, when the Kesler rumours were flying, Pens bloggers wrote articles with titles like this one: "Kesler vs Sutter - Is It Really Worth It?" EDIT: Here's a key excerpt: So by the looks of it Kesler is indeed better offensively [than Sutter], but that's something we already knew. However, he isn't as good as Staal offensively, and that is really saying something considering the difference in linemates they have had. And also makes it really questionable that he [Kesler] will be able to do much more with Sutter's linemates than Sutter has. Unfortunately, Kesler is also worse defensively than Staal, which makes him much worse defensively than Sutter. So is the possible offensive upgrade, which may be quite minor considering the Bottom 6 linemates aren't going to be anywhere near what he is used to skating with in Vancouver, going to be enough to offset the loss in defensive skill? So that's how the Pens blogosphere viewed Sutter, in comparison to our (formerly) very own Ryan Kesler (who some people think is a pretty good shutdown centre). They felt Sutter was much better defensively. And the comments section had gems like this: "I wouldn't trade Sutter for Kesler straight up" And one of the most rec'd posts: "I lean towards keeping Sutter… I think Sutter is a good fit at 3C and would prefer, if we’re shipping picks and prospects, to get 1st or 3rd line help. Sutter’s stats would almost assuredly be better if he were paired with line mates that could spell offense. Put Sutter with Staal’s 2009 line mates and his point production is probably at least 30-40% higher." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I am confused as to why people keep saying Sutter is a shutdown guy, has grit etc.....All I have read from Pens board is that he is the exact opposite of that...isn't physical, does not bring grit or use his size. However, all you have to do is look at the linemates he played with last season (garbage) and he still put up 21 goals. But if you guys are thinking he is some great shutdown center, the fans who have watched him for 2 years say the exact opposite. Pierre McGuire who is probably the best talent scout amongst the media calls Sutter and "elite penalty killer... not good penalty killer... ELITE". He also says the guy isn't as big as you think since he is so thin and compared his build to Jyrki Lumme. Says it is an upgrade and that he should be signed to a 5 year extension easily around Couturier money. That is a reasonably unbiased view of things. In the same interview he did apologize for overselling Bonino, he wasn't sure why he started wilting under the pressure and his early production for us is more indicative of his skill than the latter part of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoTambo Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think the forward corps is set. Hopefully Benning is still looking to make a trade for a defenseman with some size and grit to help take that load off of Edler (size) and Sbisa (grit?). Hamhuis brings some grit, but more a steady presence. Tanev, Weber, Bartowksi bring neither size nor grit. This defense will be eaten alive by a strong, consistent forecheck. Yes, ''size and grit'' on the back end can help, but it's not a MUST for every pairing to have some of it. Especially to get the Cup. The Blackhawks, no real size and grit past Seabrook, with basically 4-5 man unit, worked together like a well oiled machine when it came to the balance of just playing calm and moving the puck out at the right time. What the Canuck need, is what the Canucks have never, ever had. An elite 28-30 min/night rock all-star on the back-end, who can EITHER play with size, grit, and scoring, (Chara, Doughty, Hedman), or an offensively gifted PMD with high hockey IQ (Keith, Doughty). Hopefully after the Twins are gone and the new core is entact, the Canucks can land a top UFA dman or luckily win a top 2 or 3 pick in the lottery to FINALLY nab one of these types of Dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yes, ''size and grit'' on the back end can help, but it's not a MUST for every pairing to have some of it. Especially to get the Cup. The Blackhawks, no real size and grit past Seabrook, with basically 4-5 man unit, worked together like a well oiled machine when it came to the balance of just playing calm and moving the puck out at the right time. What the Canuck need, is what the Canucks have never, ever had. An elite 28-30 min/night rock all-star on the back-end, who can EITHER play with size, grit, and scoring, (Chara, Doughty Weber, Hedman), or an offensively gifted PMD with high hockey IQ (Keith, Doughty). Hopefully after the Twins are gone and the new core is entact, the Canucks can land a top UFA dman or luckily win a top 2 or 3 pick in the lottery to FINALLY nab one of these types of Dman. I don't think a defensive corps should be 6 giants, but this team needs some size on the blueline to help the offense generate from the back end. Maybe Pedan is that guy. I'd love to see him take a huge jump development wise and crack some &^@#ing skulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Don't worry the Pens have Phil the Thrill ready to bust out....I'm not too sure what I mean by that, but I think i could go two ways with him. At $8M per.. Phil might have to pick up his tummy before can see what two way things are going on down around his, uhm, stick! Yep. Context is everything. The next best player in his third year on the Rebels was Troy Ofukany. A real household name. Doghouse, penthouse, barnhouse... Won't you take me to....Ofukany. Won't you take me to.....Ofuknay! Say that three times quickly and I think your personality pic might squirt... Lol, too funny! Which could be dangerous. That pic already looks the opposite of constipated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Benning seriously thinks this dude is a 2nd line centre? Colin Wilson $3.94, Craig Smith $4.25. Take a flyer Jim.Yes lets give a rival Bonino. Like Nashville would do that? Take a flyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't think a defensive corps should be 6 giants, but this team needs some size on the blueline to help the offense generate from the back end. Maybe Pedan is that guy. I'd love to see him take a huge jump development wise and crack some ???? skulls. I think its a fair point Phil. Every D ideally would have at least one, if not two guys, that can move a body from in front of the net at a whim. Edler throws a few big hits in the open ice. But its different than making a forward pay in blood if they want to hang out with near our goal. In todays NHL it cannot come at the expense of good skating, or first pass. But after that its as valuable as any tool set offered by a good D man. A crease clearing bastard would be a great addition to our squad. Even better if forwards are a bit freaked at the concept of going to the net in the first place. I'm off to the Pedan thread to take stock of commentary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancouvercanucks2010 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 4.4 million dollars for a 30-40 points player? You gotta be kidding here..please tell me that is a joke. Sigh, i guess when our GM sign players like Dorsett for more than 2 million and Sbisa for more than 3 million dollars per year, nothing should come as a surprise anymore. #FireBenningNow That's all I have to say about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 4.4 million dollars for a 30-40 points player? You gotta be kidding here..please tell me that is a joke. Sigh, i guess when our GM sign players like Dorsett for more than 2 million and Sbisa for more than 3 million dollars per year, nothing should come as a surprise anymore. #FireBenningNow That's all I have to say about that... Welcome to 2015. Alot has changed since you were frozen 6 years ago. #PostLockoutBargaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's hilarious how delusional everyone here is. Just hop on over to any of the Penguins' boards, and you will see that absolutely every single Pens fan LOVES this trade and thinks they fleeced us (which is fair, as they actually did fleece us). And, that was with Sutter making $1+ million less a year.How exactly did we get fleeced? You think Clendenning is a future top 4 Dman? Sutter is an upgrade on Bonino. Bonino has better hands but otherwise Sutter is better at every other facet of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstewboy Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 4.4 million dollars for a 30-40 points player? You gotta be kidding here..please tell me that is a joke. Sigh, i guess when our GM sign players like Dorsett for more than 2 million and Sbisa for more than 3 million dollars per year, nothing should come as a surprise anymore. #FireBenningNow That's all I have to say about that... LOL, 12 years on the forums and still blind as a bat.... Sounds like you needed to be traded. We are going for a more positive, rational thinking culture around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Green Lawn Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Love this trade... Just think of how good we were when Kesler and Malhotra were here. We just need a legit puck moving dman now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancouvercanucks2010 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 LOL, 12 years on the forums and still blind as a bat.... Sounds like you needed to be traded. We are going for a more positive, rational thinking culture around here. Okay, I am positive that this deal would be terrible at best. I guess we do sorely need Auston Matthews next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 It's hilarious how delusional everyone here is. Just hop on over to any of the Penguins' boards, and you will see that absolutely every single Pens fan LOVES this trade and thinks they fleeced us (which is fair, as they actually did fleece us). And, that was with Sutter making $1+ million less a year. Pens fans are only surpassed by Leafs fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I think McCann has what it takes to be a #1 C in this league. So does that not-yet-born x player the Canucks will draft one day. It's the same thing every time. Future hope, present uncertainty, past failures. No other discourse exists here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 4.4 million dollars for a 30-40 points player? You gotta be kidding here..please tell me that is a joke. Sigh, i guess when our GM sign players like Dorsett for more than 2 million and Sbisa for more than 3 million dollars per year, nothing should come as a surprise anymore. #FireBenningNow That's all I have to say about that... Keep repeating those Dorsett and Sbisa deals as bad deals. It makes you look original and right up to date with current trends. You're merely repeating what the anti-Canucks local media keeps spewing in your face. And you want more. If I didn't know better, I'd call you a sh!t fan. But I know better so I will not call you a sh!t fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Phil might have to pick up his tummy before can see what two way things are going on down around his, uhm, stick! Doghouse, penthouse, barnhouse... Say that three times quickly and I think your personality pic might squirt... Lol, too funny! Which could be dangerous. That pic already looks the opposite of constipated!Taken by suprise he was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancouvercanucks2010 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Keep repeating those Dorsett and Sbisa deals as bad deals. It makes you look original and right up to date with current trends. You're merely repeating what the anti-Canucks local media keeps spewing in your face. And you want more. If I didn't know better, I'd call you a sh!t fan. But I know better so I will not call you a sh!t fan. You can call me whatever you want, just wish you can call a terrible deal when it is warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd71 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I hate the word "tweener". It carries such a negative connotation. alhe only reason he wasn't a second line center in Pittsburgh is because he was never going to pass Crosby and Malkin on the depth chart. Not many players would. That's like calling Jordan Staal a tweener in his time there. Opportunity has an amazing effect on players stats. Who would have thought Burrows or Samuelsson would ever become 30 goal scorers. Except Sutter never came close to Staal's production in Pittsburgh. Not remotely close. Maybe the reason he never became a second line C is because he isn't one? And how much more ice time is he going to get? He played 17:19 last year with 1:31 on the PP. Guys don't normally become something they have never been. I would have preferred to have him as a pending UFA. See what he can do before giving out this kind of deal. He makes more than Bozak (maybe the worst contract in the league) without the production. Is he better than Bozak? Numbers don't say so but I realize we don't factor in Sutter's stats. We can only watch him play to know how good he is. All I hear is the only reason his numbers have been pedestrian are his line-mates and his being stuck behind Crosby and Malkin. I don't like paying guys on what they could be. Up until this point he hasn't been a 2C or a guy that should be making 4.4 over 5. Especially with what you can get in a C for much less. Maybe this deal is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoTambo Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 4.4 million dollars for a 30-40 points player? You gotta be kidding here..please tell me that is a joke. Sigh, i guess when our GM sign players like Dorsett for more than 2 million and Sbisa for more than 3 million dollars per year, nothing should come as a surprise anymore. #FireBenningNow That's all I have to say about that... Yeah, fire a GM ONE YEAR into his job... after he hires a great coach and ices a team that, by the numbers, improved by leaps and bounds and proved everyone wrong. Yeah fire a GM who has singlehandedly restocked our draft cupboard in just 2 drafts and finally actually knows what he's doing at the draft table! Do you even realize the pile of $h!t he had to clean up when he arrived here? My Lord. Smh. You Benning haters are so sad, and yet so hilarious. Thank GOD you're not in charge! As for 4.4mill for a 30-40 pt player...I'm more to happy to tell you..it's NOT a joke! Colin Wilson just got 4mil for 4 35-40 pt years, and Couturier just got 4.33mil for his career high 15 goals last yr and his career high 39 pts two yrs go. So, wake up!! It ain't '2010' anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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