Canucks' Team Toughness

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Peluso is a great option for the forward corps, but the defense already has a very effective, more so that Tryamkin, player to protect the youth.

 

My thoughts though are after wrist surgery, how often Erik will be willing to drop the mitts.  On top of that, you don't exactly want a top 4 D to constantly be pinned in the box for 5 mins.  especially when you only have 6 dman, being short one can get costly and taxing for the other dman over time.  I think just one heavy player will help round out that forward group, kind of the same effect Matt Martin has on Toronto and Ryan Reaves for the Blues.

 

I remember Dorsett saying having more toughness and grit inspires others to play as a collective whole.  especially with Dorsett's neck injury im weary of what kind of capacity he will have next season. Idk thats just me, just worried seeing our kids being taken advantaged of.

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

My thoughts though are after wrist surgery, how often Erik will be willing to drop the mitts.  On top of that, you don't exactly want a top 4 D to constantly be pinned in the box for 5 mins.  especially when you only have 6 dman, being short one can get costly and taxing for the other dman over time.

I think Gudbranson will be just fine. I'm looking forward more so to his overall presence (stapling players to the boards, leveling the opposition with thunderous hits) than him dropping the gloves. I don't think he'll have any issues though. And he's as tough as they come, so if he's in the box for five, it'll be worth it, as a message will have been sent.

Just now, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

 

 I think just one heavy player will help round out that forward group, kind of the same effect Matt Martin has on Toronto and Ryan Reaves for the Blues.

I agree that the Canucks need at least one or two players who relish the heavy physical game on the forward corps. It'll help balance out the speed and skill and give the younger players some room to move.

Just now, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I remember Dorsett saying having more toughness and grit inspires others to play as a collective whole.  especially with Dorsett's neck injury im weary of what kind of capacity he will have next season. Idk thats just me, just worried seeing our kids being taken advantaged of.

Sounded like Dorsett said he's good to go. I agree with his estimation too. When the team feels that they have players who can handle the heavy game and have their back, especially leaders on the team, it has a trickle down effect that is undeniable. The Canucks desperately need to give Gudbranson and Dorsett some help there. I'm still a huge proponent of going after Evander Kane as well. He brings it all, and seems to be far more aware of what he needs to do to be successful, and what not to do.

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I've noticed a trend this past season that teams carry at least one or two big thick pugilists to slug it out in the regular season, that goes with the wear and tear of an 82 game schedule.  Anaheim had Jared Boll, Edmonton tag teamed with Lucic, Kassian and Maroon, Pittsburgh saddled with Tom Sestito, Steve Olesky, Nashville went heavy with McLeod and Watson, Washington with Tom Wilson, The Leafs with Matt Martin and Roman Polak, Sharks with Michael Haley, the Blues with Ryan Reaves.  They all played a large part of the regular season, however, come playoff time their reduced roles were given to the skilled players (Minus Washington and Edmonton).

 

Point is that teams were focused with dealing with these hombres which opened space for the skilled guys and also benefitted them from having to deal with the grinding out games.

 

Canucks need a big thick tough hombre (too bad without Tryamkin) to wear down the opposition and take the focus off the young players.  Doesn't need to play regular minutes or even be a regular player in each game, but having a thick body against thick bodied teams does help players stay fresher over the long haul, and also reduce injuries.  with the amount of youth we will have and the lack of size and toughness, the Canucks are in absolute need to find a cheap tough option just to do some spot duty.  Can't have anymore of that Matt Martin nonsense, and don't want Bo to have to step up to the plate often.

 

Canucks need to sample out some cheap options like Anthony Peluso (UFA), Michael Haley (UFA), Marcus Foligno (RFA), Chris Thorburn (UFA), Ryan White (UFA)

Good Point! This probably explains the last 2 years where injuries played key roles in the teams success. With Guddy, Dorsett and even Virt out of the line up, it leaves the team vulnerable to the opposing team "wearing down" our players and having players such as Miller resorting to trying to stick up for his team mates.

[SilentSam]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think Gudbranson will be just fine. I'm looking forward more so to his overall presence (stapling players to the boards, leveling the opposition with thunderous hits) than him dropping the gloves. I don't think he'll have any issues though. And he's as tough as they come, so if he's in the box for five, it'll be worth it, as a message will have been sent.

I agree that the Canucks need at least one or two players who relish the heavy physical game on the forward corps. It'll help balance out the speed and skill and give the younger players some room to move.

Sounded like Dorsett said he's good to go. I agree with his estimation too. When the team feels that they have players who can handle the heavy game and have their back, especially leaders on the team, it has a trickle down effect that is undeniable. The Canucks desperately need to give Gudbranson and Dorsett some help there. I'm still a huge proponent of going after Evander Kane as well. He brings it all, and seems to be far more aware of what he needs to do to be successful, and what not to do.

I'm hoping to see Pedan get a fair shot this season from the get go.. I'm sure Green will be fair to Pedan, but not overly generous as Desjardins has been with Vey and Megna.

I think this is the season that our skill level and physical game both elevate. I too would like to see E Kane here, at home in Vancouver.. and perhaps the unrest in Buffalo signals an opportunity for that to happen.

I also hope T Green reaches out to Tryamkin to build a relationship with the player regardless of the situation.

We do have Nik's rights, and it would be in interest.

Edited April 26, 2017 by SilentSam

[J-23]

11 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

My thoughts though are after wrist surgery, how often Erik will be willing to drop the mitts.  On top of that, you don't exactly want a top 4 D to constantly be pinned in the box for 5 mins.  especially when you only have 6 dman, being short one can get costly and taxing for the other dman over time.  I think just one heavy player will help round out that forward group, kind of the same effect Matt Martin has on Toronto and Ryan Reaves for the Blues.

 

I remember Dorsett saying having more toughness and grit inspires others to play as a collective whole.  especially with Dorsett's neck injury im weary of what kind of capacity he will have next season. Idk thats just me, just worried seeing our kids being taken advantaged of.

I agree with Dorsett. Lucic has made Edmonton play physical. Also, our 2011 team was a good example. Players like Edler, Hamhuis, Higgins, Ballard, Erhoff, Malhotra etc. played physical because of players like Torres, Alberts etc.

[darkpoet]

The first reach-out-poke-check by a defenseman I see next year I'm writing a hate filled letter to LinBenning

I wanna see somebody get stapled to the boards so hard the skin on their face peels off when they pull off
 

[RRypien37]

Prying Chris Stewart out of Minny would be great. Legitimate heavy weight and can play in the top 9. Put up some big numbers in the past but seems to have lost some offensive touch for some reason over the past few years.

 

I'd love to see a 2nd line of Sedin - Sedin - Stewie. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by RRypien37

[J-23]

On 2017-04-26 at 10:56 PM, darkpoet said:

The first reach-out-poke-check by a defenseman I see next year I'm writing a hate filled letter to LinBenning

I wanna see somebody get stapled to the boards so hard the skin on their face peels off when they pull off
 

Best thing I've seen all day. "We are all Canucks."

[Fakename70]

On 3/29/2017 at 8:33 PM, Squamfan said:

and also passed on tkachuk and took Juolevi

But, watching the draft last year, Juolevi was touted on the U.S. broadcast as "the most skilled defenceman in the draft". Nothing wrong with that if it holds true. The question is, who does he pair with when he finally makes his NHL debut replacing Edler on the left side? If we're talking a L-R duo, it'd be nice to see him partnered with an aggressive no-nonsense RH blueliner. Is that Gudbranson? 

[YummyCakeFace]

Lol. Is this topic still going?  I've said it before and I'll say bit again, what toughness? 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Dahlen, Goldobin, Baertschi, Granlund, Boeser up front. Those guys are taking 5 out of out 9 top forward spots. All very small, skilled forwards. Baertschi and Granlund play with a bit of grit but are skinny and can't hit to save their lives.

 

Horvat, Sutter and Virtanen will fill our 3 of the other spots, they've got a bit more toughness and size but still aren't focused on hitting really and far from tough-guys.

 

On defence, we've got Juolevi, Hutton, Stecher and Tanev as the main future defencemen. None of them play a physical style and are all relatively small.

 

Then there's Sbisa and Gudbranson who can play a stronger brand of hockey and to be fair to provide some grit.

 

If we take Horvat out of the picture (because he will mainly be focused scoring or shutting opponents down rather than hitting) and Sutter out (because he'll be quite old by the time we're contending), we've really got Virtanen, MAYBE Sbisa (at that time) and Gudbranson. So that's 2 or 3 guys with grit. The rest are all quite small, fragile hockey players.

 

Watching the playoffs right now however, you don't need size and grit to win. The Senators and Rangers are scoring 10 goals a game. The Penguins are a relatively small team. In the East, speed and skil predominates and has for a while.

 

In the West, the Oilers are proving that a good combination is what it takes, as are the Ducks. The Predators and Blues series is more of the same. They're proving that top end elite offensive ability is most important, quality slick skating defenders are key, clutch goaltending helps but isn't as important as it used to be and gritty hitters are useless if they can't score or kill penalties.

 

TL;DR - Benning is on the right path. He's acquiring skill and offensive ability now, and hopefully when the time comes to make a playoff push, he'll get us some big physical forwards to round out the group.

[oldnews]

On 2017-04-26 at 10:43 AM, PhillipBlunt said:

Peluso is a great option for the forward corps, but the defense already has a very effective, more so that Tryamkin, player to protect the youth.

 

That's not a look you typically see on Kassian's face.  He's generally has a lot more edge / game face.

Here he looks like he's knows what he's facing, is not too thrilled about it. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, oldnews said:

That's not a look you typically see on Kassian's face.  He's generally has a lot more edge / game face.

Here he looks like he's knows what he's facing, is not too thrilled about it. 

Absolutely.  As Martin found out in one of the highest ranked fights of the year, Guddy is dangerous.  In the second round right now and only a few teams have actual enforcers on their teams, Reaves, Wilson and Neil but all those guys can play and hit hard too.   Lucic of course can throw with anyone too.  Getzlaf has been a beast in ANA and Perry is now slouch either.  The Rangers have Glass who's actually turned into a great fighter, routinely has some of the top ranked bouts of the year in hockey fights.com, which leaves PIT and Nashville as the only teams left that don't have a guy on their team that can fight well and or play well and add a large element of toughness.

 

The Canucks should continue to move toward skill whenever possible if they hope to become a playoff team, but I would take a Getzlaf, Perry, Lucic type at the draft if available too.  Eventually some team is going to bring back a few goons and the arms race will be back with a vengeance...maybe after the next round of expansion when the talent is further diluted?    

As a fan I hate getting pushed around.  Losing Tryamkin stings.  Guddy and Pedan are the only players in our system that can fight well.  Beiga hits everything but is small.  Hopefully the next few drafts we get some guys that can play well and do some damage and offer push back.  

 

Losing Burrows and Hansen actually reduced our toughness which says a lot.

[SilentSam]

Tom Wilson Washington Capitals is an RFA this year I believe .. his game is evolving in these playoffs.

just sayin  

Edited May 7, 2017 by SilentSam

[riffraff]

Peluso please and thank you JB.

[PhillipBlunt]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 2:29 AM, oldnews said:

That's not a look you typically see on Kassian's face.  He's generally has a lot more edge / game face.

Here he looks like he's knows what he's facing, is not too thrilled about it. 

Exactly. Gudbranson isn't afraid of anyone in the league and plays an honest, hard game. It's been a long time since the Canucks have had such an intimidating physical presence on the back end.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Exactly. Gudbranson isn't afraid of anyone in the league and plays an honest, hard game. It's been a long time since the Canucks have had such an intimidating physical presence on the back end.

And it doesn't hurt in their locker room either.

When you have guys doing chickencrap things like a Matt Martin jumping a Troy Stecher, it sure as hell builds team to have a guy telling his team-mates that the cuprit if 'fn dead' - and meaning it (in a non-literal way).  What an embarrassment for the weaselly media to be repeating that kind of stuff, prompting the weaselly Leafs-protectionist response from 'their people' at the league - but nevertheless having a guy like Gudbranson that is never going to idle when crap like that goes down is important - and it enables his team-mates to play their game with less caution.  That might be lost on a lot of the 'big D are done' crowd, or the 'why Bennig gotta get Bennig type players when guys like Gudbranson are a throwback to a dead age in the NHL' - but I highly doubt it's lost on anyone that doesn't have such a myopic and skilled smurf / 'analyticz' perspective of the future of the NHL.

[PhillipBlunt]

12 minutes ago, oldnews said:

And it doesn't hurt in their locker room either.

When you have guys doing chickencrap things like a Matt Martin jumping a Troy Stecher, it sure as hell builds team to have a guy telling his team-mates that the cuprit if 'fn dead' - and meaning it (in a non-literal way).  What an embarrassment for the weaselly media to be repeating that kind of stuff, prompting the weaselly Leafs-protectionist response from 'their people' at the league - but nevertheless having a guy like Gudbranson that is never going to idle when crap like that goes down is important - and it enables his team-mates to play their game with less caution.  That might be lost on a lot of the 'big D are done' crowd, or the 'why Bennig gotta get Bennig type players when guys like Gudbranson are a throwback to a dead age in the NHL' - but I highly doubt it's lost on anyone that doesn't have such a myopic and skilled smurf / 'analyticz' perspective of the future of the NHL.

Exactly. As proven by the Soilers/Ducks series, size and the ability to use it is clearly still at a premium, and remains a factor in the playoffs.

 

Gudbranson was roasted by the Yostian clowns who watch games with calculators. They completely ignored the fact that he had to acclimate himself to a completely new team/conference/division and was battling some injuries almost at the outset of the season. It was far easier to just write him off as a horrible player because twerps like JD Burke said analyticzzz sez so.

 

I'm truly looking forward to next season and how Gudbranson establishes himself. And in turn, how that gives the Canucks a stronger spine and mentality.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Exactly. As proven by the Soilers/Ducks series, size and the ability to use it is clearly still at a premium, and remains a factor in the playoffs.

 

Gudbranson was roasted by the Yostian clowns who watch games with calculators. They completely ignored the fact that he had to acclimate himself to a completely new team/conference/division and was battling some injuries almost at the outset of the season. It was far easier to just write him off as a horrible player because twerps like JD Burke said analyticzzz sez so.

 

I'm truly looking forward to next season and how Gudbranson establishes himself. And in turn, how that gives the Canucks a stronger spine and mentality.

I'm actually surprised that there are people willing to publish such daft garbage - and willing to be so manipulative with their 'analytics' but the reality is that many people simply buy it outright and many people simply don't look into that junk.

The assessments of Larsson were probably even worse / more laughable considering the knee jerk nonsense assuming that the 'type' of player he represented doesn't have value in today's game.

I have ripped the Oilers a lot in my time, but I had to give them kudos - and this aint hindsighting - dealing Hall and Yakupov were precisely what they needed to do (real prototypical modern speed/skill players btw - the stereotype of what a lot of people parrot as the 'trend' in the NHL - but more like trendy players that are loved by highlight reel fans, and grossly over-rated by them) - while acquiring a guy like Larsson was precisely what they needed - and has played out to evidence that pretty clearly imo.

 

Gudbranson has an incredible toolbox and (nearly) everything you need imo to be a great, prototypical modern shutdown defenseman.  You'd think that with decreasing scoring, stronger, more talented fourth lines around the league, and fewer and fewer one-dimensional floaters who can't play without the puck - you'd think that with those 'trends' people would have a better grasp of the value of the defensive side of the game - and yet ironically, the ignorance seems to be lead by the 'analytics' community of all people.

Gudbranson is quite a fast guy for his size - he skates very well north to south - obviously huge, big wingspan/reach, tough as nails, intelligent, a leader, a backbone type player.  He also has latent upside that he evidenced before stepping up the NHL but that's not his bread and butter at this level and his career thus far has not enabled it / his situational usage has not been opportune - but he makes a good first pass, and he has a big shot when he gets the opportunity to get shots off.   For me, the one thing that I think could stand to improve is his lateral movement/pivots - something that can be developed and worked on - and being a huge guy, not the easiest aspect of 'quickness' - he strikes me as somewhat of an 'upright' skater (not that unlike Bieksa, however Bieksa is a smaller guy - or Pedan, who is likewise a big, fast guy that may not stand to improve on his speed, but perhaps his 360 degree skating).  I find that aspect hard to describe, but I have very little doubt about how important and effective he is going to be.

 

[PhillipBlunt]

32 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm actually surprised that there are people willing to publish such daft garbage - and willing to be so manipulative with their 'analytics' but the reality is that many people simply buy it outright and many people simply don't look into that junk.

The assessments of Larsson were probably even worse / more laughable considering the knee jerk nonsense assuming that the 'type' of player he represented doesn't have value in today's game.

I have ripped the Oilers a lot in my time, but I had to give them kudos - and this aint hindsighting - dealing Hall and Yakupov were precisely what they needed to do (real prototypical modern speed/skill players btw - the stereotype of what a lot of people parrot as the 'trend' in the NHL - but more like trendy players that are loved by highlight reel fans, and grossly over-rated by them) - while acquiring a guy like Larsson was precisely what they needed - and has played out to evidence that pretty clearly imo.

 

Gudbranson has an incredible toolbox and (nearly) everything you need imo to be a great, prototypical modern shutdown defenseman.  You'd think that with decreasing scoring, stronger, more talented fourth lines around the league, and fewer and fewer one-dimensional floaters who can't play without the puck - you'd think that with those 'trends' people would have a better grasp of the value of the defensive side of the game - and yet ironically, the ignorance seems to be lead by the 'analytics' community of all people.

Gudbranson is quite a fast guy for his size - he skates very well north to south - obviously huge, big wingspan/reach, tough as nails, intelligent, a leader, a backbone type player.  He also has latent upside that he evidenced before stepping up the NHL but that's not his bread and butter at this level and his career thus far has not enabled it / his situational usage has not been opportune - but he makes a good first pass, and he has a big shot when he gets the opportunity to get shots off.   For me, the one thing that I think could stand to improve is his lateral movement/pivots - something that can be developed and worked on - and being a huge guy, not the easiest aspect of 'quickness' - he strikes me as somewhat of an 'upright' skater (not that unlike Bieksa, however Bieksa is a smaller guy - or Pedan, who is likewise a big, fast guy that may not stand to improve on his speed, but perhaps his 360 degree skating).  I find that aspect hard to describe, but I have very little doubt about how important and effective he is going to be.

 

Agreed 100%.