(Rumour) Stars open to moving No. 3 pick

[cuporbust]

38 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

what if...  Jim trades tanev to other Jim for 3rd overall. then our Jim selects Mittlestadt and Glass and forgo a defensemen.   it would certainly shore up our c ice position and button feels Mittelstadt may be a better winger down the road. so if glass didn't work out we'd have a fall back.

 

plus next season has some really nice d we could snag 1 there.  curious if he'd do that.   but trading for 2 top 5 picks in a weak draft would be risky.  he could early be strung up and vilified if it failed.  

 

but what I  like about jb is he is a man of his convictions.  I hope he does something bold!

Then we miss out on this 

 

[kenhodgejr]

This is huge news and we need to make sure we capitalize on it. We lost out on the last trade with Dallas because of Calgary. Lets not miss out on this one. 
 

Chris Tanev + 33rd + CBJ 2nd 

for

3rd, Niemi 

 

Draft 

 

3rd Vancouver - Casey Mittelstadt 

4th Colorado - Miro Hieskanen

5th Vancouver - Gabe Vilardi, Cody Glass, Michael Rasmussen

 

 Mittlestadt Horvat Boesser

Granlund Vilardi Dahlen

Goldobin Gaudette Virtanen

McEwan Mckenzie Lockwood

 

If we walk away with 2 key pieces from this draft we will be almost ready with a new top 6 core. I say give them two second round picks or whatever it takes just to seal the deal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mattrek]

I've come to the conclusion CDC has no idea how to value players. I'm on the fence about trading Tanev for the 3rd OA because of how weak this draft is, but could be persuaded either way. That being said we have people saying Tanev for the 3rd OA would be a great deal for us when the talk for the last few days around here has been Tanev for Nylander. Those values aren't even close to one another and it seems once again we have fallen into the same overvalue draft picks undervalue players routine.

[oldnews]

4 hours ago, goblix said:

woah woah woah.

I'm not saying Murray = the 3rd overall because he doesn't....

I'm saying why would they spend assets to get a 3rd overall lottery pick when their window to compete for playoffs and etc is now... Makes no sense

 

Which is why Murray for Eberle makes more sense than Murray++ for 3rd overall.

But either way, I don't think Eberle is a Torts type of player sooooo yeahh.

What makes no sense is ignoring the expansion draft.

Columbus' 'window' is just opening btw.  The idea that a 3rd overall doesn't 'make sense' to them makes no sense - nor does adding a player like Eberle (who is not worth Murray) or what that would mean in terms of who else they'd have to expose among their forward group.

 

Dubinsky, Foligno, Hartnell = NMCs

Saad, Atkinson, Wennberg, Jenner - which of these four are you going to expose in favour of Eberle?  None of them.

 

Jones, Murray, Savard, Johnson - no way Columbus wants to lose one of those four D.

 

Murray is a 2nd overall himself - a young top 4 who is just emerging after some setbacks - still only 23 yrs old,

Deal makes more sense that I think you realized.  And as I said in the first post, send a young depth D (ie Oleksiak to the CBJ, a depth F ie Karlsson, who will be exposed, back to Dallas) and this deal seriously mitigates the loss Columbus stands to take in the expansion draft.

[Rush17]

4 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Then we miss out on this 

 

true.  but if Makar busts Jims job security would be heavily questioned.  I like the idea of getting a legit pmd d.  especially one with dazzle like Makar. 

 

I'm not advocating the 2 forwards method but I could see the benefit if Jim thinks 2 c's are better at this time then a questionable d or what's avaliable. 

[naslundfan921]

I, Personally have no interest in moving up from 5 to 3, Acquiring 3 to go along with 5 is a different story. The dream scenario then would be if Philly falls in love with one of the Dmen and either Nico or Patrick slip to 3 and we grab one of the remaining top flight Defencemen at 5 (Be that Liligren, Makar or Miro). Pipe dream scenario but one can dream. 

 

[D-Money]

9 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said:

if I'm Benning, I would be on the phone to Nill saying this....

 

"Do you see how good my guy Edler is playing with your D Klingberg?"

 

"You wanna see 82 games of that?"

 

"Hows about Edler for your 3rd overall and you can send that Niemi guy our way."

 

"Salaries match up so theres that too...."

This makes a LOT more sense than Tanev. Because contrary to popular belief, the Stars' right-side D (Klingberg, Honka, Jones) are actually decent. It's the left side (Hamhuis, Lindell, Oleksiak/Nemeth) that needs the most help.

 

Even if we had to add another pick or depth forward, this would be the trade I'd be going for. All depends on Edler's NTC though.

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Jones, Murray, Savard, Johnson - no way Columbus wants to lose one of those four D.

I don't think they'd be too worried about losing Johnson... And I doubt worried enough to want to trade Murray.

[Odjick29willkillyou]

14 hours ago, shiznak said:

I don't see Dallas moving that pick unless it's for a young proven defensemen (Trouba, Fowler, etc) or a first round pick in the top 10 coming back.

 

Tanev does not push them over the top as a Cup contender.

I disagree. With Bish in net he really does. They have been sorely lacking those two elements and obtaining them could be the difference between a long playoff run or another mediocre season. Bish graduated from here and played for the Texas Tornado so he has a ton of incentive to play better than last season. Adding a defensive stalwart like Tanev to go along with Klingberg, Johns and Honka is a smart move. While they have cap issues they are also shedding Sharp, Hemsky and one if not both goalie contracts. Tanev has a friendly cap hit with term whereas they would have to overpay in a weak FA pool for someone older like Alzner. Add to that the fact that Hammer mentored Tanev in his time here and there is chemistry already established. Tanev makes too much sense for them to pass up on. 

[JM_]

6 hours ago, Mattrek said:

I've come to the conclusion CDC has no idea how to value players. I'm on the fence about trading Tanev for the 3rd OA because of how weak this draft is, but could be persuaded either way. That being said we have people saying Tanev for the 3rd OA would be a great deal for us when the talk for the last few days around here has been Tanev for Nylander. Those values aren't even close to one another and it seems once again we have fallen into the same overvalue draft picks undervalue players routine.

you can't look at the entire draft class tho and judge the trade for the 3oa on it. At that spot there is a  potential 1D and at least a 2C maybe 1C, for Tanev that would be great imo, particularly if there's also another older prospect coming back as well in the deal. 

 

 

[JM_]

10 hours ago, oldnews said:

What?  They don't need a 3rd overall but would take Eberle for Murray?  Sorry, I'm not with you on this one - why would Columbus, who already has to expose a good forward, want to move Murray for Eberle?  I can't imagine them preferring that return over the 3rd overall pick.

the problem with CBJ trading for 3oa with Dallas is CBJ doesn't really have much leverage. As you say they have to expose some talent to Vegas in a number of areas but of course only 1 will be lost to expansion. I don't see Oleksiak and  depth forward being the kind of impact Tanev would have for them, but then again they're OK on the right side as well. Edler+ 33rd+eating bad goalie contract would be ideal for us, but when does that happen? Oh right, Burr for Dahlen. I guess it can happen sometimes. 

[goblix]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

What makes no sense is ignoring the expansion draft.

Columbus' 'window' is just opening btw.  The idea that a 3rd overall doesn't 'make sense' to them makes no sense - nor does adding a player like Eberle (who is not worth Murray) or what that would mean in terms of who else they'd have to expose among their forward group.

 

Dubinsky, Foligno, Hartnell = NMCs

Saad, Atkinson, Wennberg, Jenner - which of these four are you going to expose in favour of Eberle?  None of them.

 

Jones, Murray, Savard, Johnson - no way Columbus wants to lose one of those four D.

 

Murray is a 2nd overall himself - a young top 4 who is just emerging after some setbacks - still only 23 yrs old,

Deal makes more sense that I think you realized.  And as I said in the first post, send a young depth D (ie Oleksiak to the CBJ, a depth F ie Karlsson, who will be exposed, back to Dallas) and this deal seriously mitigates the loss Columbus stands to take in the expansion draft.

First I didn't review the teams expansion draft position as I didn't realize that was one of the standing points for this idea (maybe I misread something, maybe it was intended to be implied) but in general moving a roster player for a pick that won't turn out to be a player for another 3-5 years (maybe) doesn't make sense for a team that was top 3 in the league and is trending upwards. 

lets not forget that they had a good year as well 2 years ago so not necessarily an apparition 

 

 

 

Murray is not worth the 3rd OA imo so the adds would have to be big which is my point.

 

im not a fan of eberle but he's a consistent 50+pt 20+ goal guy who is 27.

 

i could care less that Murray was 2nd overall previously guy has been mediocre in his NHL career and has taken the backseat to these other young guys.

 

The cbj defense runs around jones and werenski. I would just expose Johnson he had a good year but has 1 year left until UFA and is 30.

would also keep Murray as a bottom pairing defenseman and hope he develops further but if they feel like adding offensive scoring then Eberle is an option. 

 

[canucklehead80]

14 hours ago, ynwa said:

Other than perhaps for the first and second picks there's no apparent benefit in trading up this year. From third to about tenth is a bit of a crapshoot—close your eyes and pin the tail on the donkey (and just hope you don't GET the donkey) 

Not trading up, but if you can add the #3 pick along with keeping #5 then that is a win and great start to speeding up the rebuild.

[goblix]

9 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

the problem with CBJ trading for 3oa with Dallas is CBJ doesn't really have much leverage. As you say they have to expose some talent to Vegas in a number of areas but of course only 1 will be lost to expansion. I don't see Oleksiak and  depth forward being the kind of impact Tanev would have for them, but then again they're OK on the right side as well. Edler+ 33rd+eating bad goalie contract would be ideal for us, but when does that happen? Oh right, Burr for Dahlen. I guess it can happen sometimes. 

Oleksiak is a Dallas defender  

he was saying Murray + depth forward for 3rd + oleksiak for returning expansion fodder 

 

something along those lines. Either way cbj doesn't get any better for the now but make out like gangbusters lol.

 

also there is no way cbj is going to buy one of their goalies off of them.

[cuporbust]

4 hours ago, Rush17 said:

true.  but if Makar busts Jims job security would be heavily questioned.  I like the idea of getting a legit pmd d.  especially one with dazzle like Makar. 

 

I'm not advocating the 2 forwards method but I could see the benefit if Jim thinks 2 c's are better at this time then a questionable d or what's avaliable. 

Fair enough. 

[HomeBrew]

What is better value for us?

 

Tanev to TO for Kapanen (or a slightly lower level prospect) and their 2017 1st

 

or 

 

Tanev to DAL for their 2017 3rd overall pick?

[Hoosierdaddy]

15 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

Tanev+ van 2nd for 3rd overall+ neimi.

 

Mittlestadt+ makar

Of all the proposed Van-Dallas scenarios this makes the most sense to me. Given ownerships bad blood the only way Dallas deals with the Canucks is if they see it as a clear win. Moving Niemi and his contract would be a win. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, goblix said:

Oleksiak is a Dallas defender  

he was saying Murray + depth forward for 3rd + oleksiak for returning expansion fodder 

 

something along those lines. Either way cbj doesn't get any better for the now but make out like gangbusters lol.

 

also there is no way cbj is going to buy one of their goalies off of them.

i know, i was comparing his impact to what Tanev would bring, sorry if that was muddled. 

 

Still I think CBJ doesn't have the leverage in a deal, or the quality of Tanev to offer. Or the ability to eat a bad goalie contract like we do. 

[aGENT]

49 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

What is better value for us?

 

Tanev to TO for Kapanen (or a slightly lower level prospect) and their 2017 1st

 

or 

 

Tanev to DAL for their 2017 3rd overall pick?

IMO.

 

5 hours ago, D-Money said:

This makes a LOT more sense than Tanev. Because contrary to popular belief, the Stars' right-side D (Klingberg, Honka, Jones) are actually decent. It's the left side (Hamhuis, Lindell, Oleksiak/Nemeth) that needs the most help.

 

Even if we had to add another pick or depth forward, this would be the trade I'd be going for. All depends on Edler's NTC though.

In truth, they need help on both sides. If I'm a contender, I'm certainly not banking on Honka as ready for a top 4 role. Particularly come playoffs. Great prospect, but he's a kid.

 

They also could use more of s defensive presence in their D. While they could certainly use Edler as well, if I'm Dallas, Tanev's my first pick. But Edler (if he were to waive) would certainly be an option as well (though we'd likely have to add a bit more in that case).

 

Tanev + CBJ  2nd for 3rd OA, Niemi/Leht, Johns

 

or

 

Edler + VAN 2nd  3rd OA, Niemi/Leht, Oleksiak

[oldnews]

5 hours ago, D-Money said:

This makes a LOT more sense than Tanev. Because contrary to popular belief, the Stars' right-side D (Klingberg, Honka, Jones) are actually decent. It's the left side (Hamhuis, Lindell, Oleksiak/Nemeth) that needs the most help.

 

Even if we had to add another pick or depth forward, this would be the trade I'd be going for. All depends on Edler's NTC though.

This is the point of suggesting that Murray is a good fit there - and has enough value to command a 3rd overall pick imo (I think Goblix may be looking too much at production - in years where he's has injury setbacks - and not realizing how good this young top 4 is).

 

5 hours ago, D-Money said:

I don't think they'd be too worried about losing Johnson... And I doubt worried enough to want to trade Murray.

Jack Johnson was their 1D - he lead that team in ice-time.

He also had the lowest offensive zone starts on the team (27.9 / 40% relative to D).

22 of the CBJ's hardest minutes a night,  134 blocked shots, big, physical shutdown D, +23 with 21 5on5 points in those shutdown minutes.

 

The CBJ care about losing Johnson.  This is like suggesting that the Canucks wouldn't be concerned about losing Edler - except at this point, Johnson is probably the better defenseman. 

The CBJ stand to lose a VERY good defenseman in the ED - I think they'll be as motivated as anyone to either move one, or cut a deal with LV.

They have the additional problem/complication that they'll have to expose Korpisalo, but imo LV takes one of those defenseman over JK with other options like Grubauer and Raanta.