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1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

Yes, but that's one game.  I dont like Guddy with Pouliot, but think he does really decent with Edler and better with Hutton.  

 

Edler and Tanev aren't great together, but they take on a higher Qualcomm too.  

 

Hutton is okay, but not our best guy.  IMO

As I see it, our biggest problem with regard to how we are now countered by other NHL teams, is the inability of most of our defence to resist a strong forecheck and escape our own zone.  At that particular task, Hutton and Stetcher are clearly the best among our D’s.  Gudbranson and Pouliot are clearly the worst, Tanev is decent and Edler iis not particularly mobile.  Adjusting our systems can help Tanev and Edler, but I don’t see it helping much with Pouliot and Gudbranson- Gudbranson would be helped by a very mobile LD or a very defensively strong left shooting D.  Sautner was able to help us like that for the last few games last year, but he is just recovered from injury, so I don’t see him being of much immediate help.  I feel sorry for Pouliot, but he is really having major problems with forecheck pressure - he appears to be in a permanent panic while handling the puck.  Biega is mobile, but I don’t see this team sitting Gudbranson’s physical presence to play him, and these coaches don’t seem to want a right shot D playing the left side.  Peterson has been a bit jittery with the puck since his return, hopefully on his return to top form will help down low - his mobility and puck handling confidence down low will be a big help.  Just  my opinion, for what it’s worth.

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8 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

As I see it, our biggest problem with regard to how we are now countered by other NHL teams, is the inability of most of our defence to resist a strong forecheck and escape our own zone.  

A certain Swedish defenseman currently playing in California + Hughes next year would go a LONG way to fixing that.

 

Some time for Juolevi to get his legs under him in Utica and added later in the year will do wonders as well.

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12 hours ago, aGENT said:

A certain Swedish defenseman currently playing in California + Hughes next year would go a LONG way to fixing that.

 

Some time for Juolevi to get his legs under him in Utica and added later in the year will do wonders as well.

I don’t think at this stage of our development that we will be picking up that swedish defenceman.  Other than Hutton and perhaps Stetcher, i think that the Canucks D needs to be reconstructed.  The lack of demand from other teams for Edler and Tanev should be telling us something about the perception of thirty other NHL GMs opinions regarding their value.  Benning related in today’s province that at the last trading deadline, that he had a total of one call regarding Edler from another GM - Edler was fifth on that GMs preference list.

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13 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I don’t think at this stage of our development that we will be picking up that swedish defenceman.  Other than Hutton and perhaps Stetcher, i think that the Canucks D needs to be reconstructed.  The lack of demand from other teams for Edler and Tanev should be telling us something about the perception of thirty other NHL GMs opinions regarding their value.  Benning related in today’s province that at the last trading deadline, that he had a total of one call regarding Edler from another GM - Edler was fifth on that GMs preference list.

If Hutton and Stetcher are the beginning of the D Corps of the future the Canucks are not going to be successful. 

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On 1/27/2019 at 7:56 AM, aGENT said:

A certain Swedish defenseman currently playing in California + Hughes next year would go a LONG way to fixing that.

 

Some time for Juolevi to get his legs under him in Utica and added later in the year will do wonders as well.

You really think Oscar Fantenberg will have that much impact if the Canucks pick him up?

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13 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I don’t think at this stage of our development that we will be picking up that swedish defenceman.  Other than Hutton and perhaps Stetcher, i think that the Canucks D needs to be reconstructed.  The lack of demand from other teams for Edler and Tanev should be telling us something about the perception of thirty other NHL GMs opinions regarding their value.  Benning related in today’s province that at the last trading deadline, that he had a total of one call regarding Edler from another GM - Edler was fifth on that GMs preference list.

Chances are, probably not. I'm assuming he stays in SJS. But if he's available, we'd be fools not to kick tires IMO.

 

Hutton and Stecher are good, young and still improving, depth D. They're not going to be the crux of the rebuild though. Edler is almost certainly back as we have no one ready to replace those minutes and this management has shown no appetite for sending kids to the slaughter in roles they aren't remotely prepared for.

 

As for the 'lack of demand' on Edler...:lol: Last year he had 1.25 years left, an NTC he's historically shown little interest in waiving (though not impossible) and had been coming off a few iffy statistical years (largely due to team context IMO) and with Benning showing no signs of putting up a for sale sign. Does that sound like a recipe for swarms of interest?

 

As for '5th on their list" that's lacking a lot of context. Karlsson and McDonagh both got moved last year which is going to put him at best at 3rd for talent. Then was that one team considering age? Term left? Handedness? Were they shopping for more bargain priced guys lower in cap and trade asset cost? Hoping to buy low by downplaying interest etc, etc.. I don't think you can make any definitive statements based on that vague information.

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On 1/28/2019 at 2:06 PM, aGENT said:

Chances are, probably not. I'm assuming he stays in SJS. But if he's available, we'd be fools not to kick tires IMO.

 

Hutton and Stecher are good, young and still improving, depth D. They're not going to be the crux of the rebuild though. Edler is almost certainly back as we have no one ready to replace those minutes and this management has shown no appetite for sending kids to the slaughter in roles they aren't remotely prepared for.

 

As for the 'lack of demand' on Edler...:lol: Last year he had 1.25 years left, an NTC he's historically shown little interest in waiving (though not impossible) and had been coming off a few iffy statistical years (largely due to team context IMO) and with Benning showing no signs of putting up a for sale sign. Does that sound like a recipe for swarms of interest?

 

As for '5th on their list" that's lacking a lot of context. Karlsson and McDonagh both got moved last year which is going to put him at best at 3rd for talent. Then was that one team considering age? Term left? Handedness? Were they shopping for more bargain priced guys lower in cap and trade asset cost? Hoping to buy low by downplaying interest etc, etc.. I don't think you can make any definitive statements based on that vague information.

If Edler was to waive his NTC for 6 weeks, there would be considerable interest.  He would be a significant add to a roster to put it over the top.  Tampa comes to mind.  An Edler Hedman pairing... damn.  

 

I almost want a young d prospect back more than a pick.  Cal Foote is one such guy.  There are others, but the type of guy that could step in as early as this season and further the transition.  

 

To me Hutton has only stuck due to an uncertain roster.  First Trymakin went home.  ImO Trymakin would have supplanted Hutton the next year.  Then this year OJ got hurt and Pouliot didnt maintain his momentum from the end of last year.  

 

If Edler is resigned, IMO Hutton will.be moved.  Hughes should be able to supplant him, OJ is next and then Trymakin is still a factor.  

 

If the choice is Edler vs Hutton, Edler all day long.  

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14 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

If Edler was to waive his NTC for 6 weeks, there would be considerable interest.  He would be a significant add to a roster to put it over the top.  Tampa comes to mind.  An Edler Hedman pairing... damn.  

 

I almost want a young d prospect back more than a pick.  Cal Foote is one such guy.  There are others, but the type of guy that could step in as early as this season and further the transition.  

 

To me Hutton has only stuck due to an uncertain roster.  First Trymakin went home.  ImO Trymakin would have supplanted Hutton the next year.  Then this year OJ got hurt and Pouliot didnt maintain his momentum from the end of last year.  

 

If Edler is resigned, IMO Hutton will.be moved.  Hughes should be able to supplant him, OJ is next and then Trymakin is still a factor.  

 

If the choice is Edler vs Hutton, Edler all day long.  

I don't know why people keep beating this dead horse.  It has an almost zero chance of happening.  Given the comments of his agent it doesn't sound like Edler would even consider waiving and even asking him would be considered insulting enough he might not resign in the summer.

 

Furthermore, they are in the playoff hunt and they've got no one to replace his mins.

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22 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't know why people keep beating this dead horse.  It has an almost zero chance of happening.  Given the comments of his agent it doesn't sound like Edler would even consider waiving and even asking him would be considered insulting enough he might not resign in the summer.

 

Furthermore, they are in the playoff hunt and they've got no one to replace his mins.

We don't fully know this though. We know what his agent said, but that's about it. Edler's a quiet one and keeps to himself. He hasn't really told us much personally.

 

So I think what you are saying is more opinion than fact in this case as we simply just don't know the facts. He might be willing to waive. He might not. We honestly don't know so I think any assumption in this case is easily fallible.

 

That being said, do I see Edler being traded? Personally, my guess is no but it's just that: a guess.

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1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

If Edler was to waive his NTC for 6 weeks, there would be considerable interest.  He would be a significant add to a roster to put it over the top.  Tampa comes to mind.  An Edler Hedman pairing... damn.  

 

I almost want a young d prospect back more than a pick.  Cal Foote is one such guy.  There are others, but the type of guy that could step in as early as this season and further the transition.  

 

To me Hutton has only stuck due to an uncertain roster.  First Trymakin went home.  ImO Trymakin would have supplanted Hutton the next year.  Then this year OJ got hurt and Pouliot didnt maintain his momentum from the end of last year.  

 

If Edler is resigned, IMO Hutton will.be moved.  Hughes should be able to supplant him, OJ is next and then Trymakin is still a factor.  

 

If the choice is Edler vs Hutton, Edler all day long.  

 

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I don't know why people keep beating this dead horse.  It has an almost zero chance of happening.  Given the comments of his agent it doesn't sound like Edler would even consider waiving and even asking him would be considered insulting enough he might not resign in the summer.

 

Furthermore, they are in the playoff hunt and they've got no one to replace his mins.

 

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

We don't fully know this though. We know what his agent said, but that's about it. Edler's a quiet one and keeps to himself. He hasn't really told us much personally.

 

So I think what you are saying is more opinion than fact in this case as we simply just don't know the facts. He might be willing to waive. He might not. We honestly don't know so I think any assumption in this case is easily fallible.

 

That being said, do I see Edler being traded? Personally, my guess is no but it's just that: a guess.

I'm with Lock on this one. Is it likely Edler gets moved? No. is it possible? Sure. I wouldn't be making any hard and fast declarations of 'fact', on what's to be, regarding him either way. 

 

I do think our 'playoff position' will have very little influence on it though contrary to what a lot of folks seem to think. Benning came flat out and said that standings this season will have basically no influence on what is already their TDL plan and long term vision. If he doesn't get moved it's because he wants to be here and we want him here. Nothing to do with playoffs.

 

And yes Phat, Edler would garner considerable interest.

 

Not sure I agree re: Hutton, he's shown to be a solid depth (2nd or 3rd pair) option and there's plenty of room on the left for Edler, Hutton and Hughes (never mind that I think long term, the Canucks might play Hughes on the right). Juolevi needs reps in Utica next fall before we start penciling him in IMO. He's missed an unfortunate amount of development time with injuries :( 

 

Things that could effect moving Hutton: Next year could JB look to maybe package say Hutton + Tanev for an upgrade....maybe. Do we target Karlsson or Gardiner this summer? 

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5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Things that could effect moving Hutton: Next year could JB look to maybe package say Hutton + Tanev for an upgrade....maybe. Do we target Karlsson or Gardiner this summer? 

I mostly just want to comment on targeting Karlsson. In my opinion, it would likely depend on what happens in the draft. Perhaps we make the playoffs. Perhaps we stay around the same or even take a nose dive. In the later 2 situations, we are in the draft lottery (albeit with less chances than previous years most likely).

 

The reason why I mention this is, in the unlikely event we pick up a Hughes or someone else who will likely be paid a lot down the road, that's eventually a lot of people to be paying big bucks to. We'd effectively be the next Toronto (although let's not kid ourselves as that's not a bad situation to be in lol). I think it's just something to be mindful of.

 

Of course it would be smart to inquire about Karlsson as we need defense, but if you look at teams like Pittsburgh: they've had times where people were going "where's the defense? They have.... Letang?...." and then they win the cup as everyone buys into the system. lol

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1 minute ago, The Lock said:

I mostly just want to comment on targeting Karlsson. In my opinion, it would likely depend on what happens in the draft. Perhaps we make the playoffs. Perhaps we stay around the same or even take a nose dive. In the later 2 situations, we are in the draft lottery (albeit with less chances than previous years most likely).

 

The reason why I mention this is, in the unlikely event we pick up a Hughes or someone else who will likely be paid a lot down the road, that's eventually a lot of people to be paying big bucks to. We'd effectively be the next Toronto (although let's not kid ourselves as that's not a bad situation to be in lol). I think it's just something to be mindful of.

 

Of course it would be smart to inquire about Karlsson as we need defense, but if you look at teams like Pittsburgh: they've had times where people were going "where's the defense? They have.... Letang?...." and then they win the cup as everyone buys into the system. lol

PIT also has two of the best C's of the past 15'ish years (and a Letang, which we're presently lacking - though perhaps Hughes fills a similar role eventually). 'Getting a Crosby' (followed by a Malkin) isn't exactly a plan you can 'copycat' :lol:

 

Any player we draft this year is going to likely be 4+ years before they're even off their ELC. That would be more than half of any potential Karlsson deal and an awful lot of time for cap increases including a bound to be lucrative SEA expansion. We have plenty of vets expiring over that time frame to cover the other raises. We can afford one big UFA IMO and I can't think of anyone better than an exceedingly rare generational, RH'd, offensive D who suits our team's shortcomings to a T. 

 

And as you point out, having 'too many' good assets is a hell of a 'problem' to have (and one I'd gladly accept). Hopefully Benning is just less idiotic about it and moves our 'Nylander' for futures before tanking his value. More CHI in their prime management, cycling auxiliary (but high value) pieces out for futures to complement the core and less...whatever the hell TOR is doing.

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11 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I mostly just want to comment on targeting Karlsson. In my opinion, it would likely depend on what happens in the draft. Perhaps we make the playoffs. Perhaps we stay around the same or even take a nose dive. In the later 2 situations, we are in the draft lottery (albeit with less chances than previous years most likely).

 

The reason why I mention this is, in the unlikely event we pick up a Hughes or someone else who will likely be paid a lot down the road, that's eventually a lot of people to be paying big bucks to. We'd effectively be the next Toronto (although let's not kid ourselves as that's not a bad situation to be in lol). I think it's just something to be mindful of.

 

Of course it would be smart to inquire about Karlsson as we need defense, but if you look at teams like Pittsburgh: they've had times where people were going "where's the defense? They have.... Letang?...." and then they win the cup as everyone buys into the system. lol

Letang is really good.  So is Doughty.  So was Keith.  So was Chara.  Great D men make their D core (and goalies) look a lot better than they really are.  These great D also make the forwards look better too.  We have Quinn coming, so he will be our super, elite, generational, great D man.  

Although, I do really like EK too.  If we sign him, then we have two super elite guys!!!

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On 1/23/2019 at 12:20 PM, aGENT said:

It may 'only' be 3rd pairing 5v5 minutes, pp time and perhaps the odd game in the press box initially but he will indeed 'walk into the team'. 

 

I doubt he sees any time in Utica.

I mostly agree, but I think he might spend up to 10 games in Utica.

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15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

PIT also has two of the best C's of the past 15'ish years (and a Letang, which we're presently lacking - though perhaps Hughes fills a similar role eventually). 'Getting a Crosby' (followed by a Malkin) isn't exactly a plan you can 'copycat' :lol:

 

Any player we draft this year is going to likely be 4+ years before they're even off their ELC. That would be more than half of any potential Karlsson deal and an awful lot of time for cap increases including a bound to be lucrative SEA expansion. We have plenty of vets expiring over that time frame to cover the other raises. We can afford one big UFA IMO and I can't think of anyone better than an exceedingly rare generational, RH'd, offensive D who suits our team's shortcomings to a T. 

 

And as you point out, having 'too many' good assets is a hell of a 'problem' to have (and one I'd gladly accept). Hopefully Benning is just less idiotic about it and moves our 'Nylander' for futures before tanking his value. More CHI in their prime management, cycling auxiliary (but high value) pieces out for futures to complement the core and less...whatever the hell TOR is doing.

Haha You are right that it would be hard to copycat, but one could also point out that if by some miracle we won the draft lottery and drafted Hughes, we'd effectively have done just that in having Pettersson and Hughes as a one-two punch (and having Horvat as the 3rd center would just be ridiculously hard for opposing teams). Boeser would be our Kessel (not a serious comparison before someone whacks me on the head for suggesting that). Hughes would be our Letang. Think about that. ;)

 

I'm obviously not saying that will happen. What I'm saying is knowing where we stand in the draft later on could have a major impact on who we target come free agency. That being said, Pittsburgh has brought in veteran defense from time to time like Martin, etc.

 

Would be funny to see that happen though. Can we live in Neverland just once?

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6 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Haha You are right that it would be hard to copycat, but one could also point out that if by some miracle we won the draft lottery and drafted Hughes, we'd effectively have done just that in having Pettersson and Hughes as a one-two punch (and having Horvat as the 3rd center would just be ridiculously hard for opposing teams). Boeser would be our Kessel (not a serious comparison before someone whacks me on the head for suggesting that). Hughes would be our Letang. Think about that. ;)

 

I'm obviously not saying that will happen. What I'm saying is knowing where we stand in the draft later on could have a major impact on who we target come free agency.

 

Would be funny to see that happen though. Can we live in Neverland just once?

Awful handy that the draft happens before free agency, isn't it? ;) 

 

Doubt we win the lotto though (even jumping up to a 2nd or 3rd OA would sure be nice for a change).

 

And even then, it might be in our best interest to still target EK and make hay while we can, with as many of these kids on ELC's as possible. Defense would still be our shortcoming and would still make sense to target guys like EK (or Myers, Gardiner etc). Try to win a cup or two over the next 5'ish years and deal with cap ramifications and 'too many good players' later.

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2 hours ago, The Lock said:

We don't fully know this though. We know what his agent said, but that's about it. Edler's a quiet one and keeps to himself. He hasn't really told us much personally.

 

So I think what you are saying is more opinion than fact in this case as we simply just don't know the facts. He might be willing to waive. He might not. We honestly don't know so I think any assumption in this case is easily fallible.

 

That being said, do I see Edler being traded? Personally, my guess is no but it's just that: a guess.

I don't disagree, but the function of an agent is to speak and act on behalf of the player.  So, if the agent says it, it's coming from Edler

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13 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't disagree, but the function of an agent is to speak and act on behalf of the player.  So, if the agent says it, it's coming from Edler

I wish it were that easy, but I just think it's perhaps trying to "oversimplify" the situation?

 

Attorneys also act on behalf of people and other entities. Does that mean they tell the truth all the time? Furthermore, when you get media in between as a 3rd party reporting things, it's easy for quotes to be taken out of context or skewed. I'm not saying that happened by the way. I'm just saying that just because an agent says something, sometimes the goal is leverage over exact truth. Agents aren't paid to be honest with the public. Agents are paid to act on whatever is in the best interest for that player. ;)

 

So, while I believe Edler doesn't want to leave, there's also been times where Edler's said he would waive his clause if asked. So where exactly are we with that? I'd say the most likely scenario is that Edler realises that it's a business in the end, although that doesn't mean he has to like it either. That's my guess though.

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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

 

I'm with Lock on this one. Is it likely Edler gets moved? No. is it possible? Sure. I wouldn't be making any hard and fast declarations of 'fact', on what's to be, regarding him either way. 

 

I do think our 'playoff position' will have very little influence on it though contrary to what a lot of folks seem to think. Benning came flat out and said that standings this season will have basically no influence on what is already their TDL plan and long term vision. If he doesn't get moved it's because he wants to be here and we want him here. Nothing to do with playoffs.

 

And yes Phat, Edler would garner considerable interest.

 

Not sure I agree re: Hutton, he's shown to be a solid depth (2nd or 3rd pair) option and there's plenty of room on the left for Edler, Hutton and Hughes (never mind that I think long term, the Canucks might play Hughes on the right). Juolevi needs reps in Utica next fall before we start penciling him in IMO. He's missed an unfortunate amount of development time with injuries :( 

 

Things that could effect moving Hutton: Next year could JB look to maybe package say Hutton + Tanev for an upgrade....maybe. Do we target Karlsson or Gardiner this summer? 

Well, I think JB just shut the idea of trading edler down completely.  

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