Has the Western World Lost Moderate/Centrist Politics?

[inane]

On 8/22/2019 at 1:58 PM, infinitecarnage said:

 

It's pretty sad imagining how much you must troll YouTube for all these vids you post. Do you actually believe this garbage or are you just playing the part. 

[JM_]

The world does seem to be moving away from far right politics. 

 

Today Italy moved away from Salvini. If you haven't been following Italian politics, this is a big move to the centre to keep this guy out of power.

 

I suspect Boris is going to make such a $&!# show out of a no-deal Brexit that any far right ideas will be panned in the future in the UK.

 

Trump is getting less popular every day.

 

Maybe the tide is turning away from the far right after all. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

The world does seem to be moving away from far right politics. 

 

Today Italy moved away from Salvini. If you haven't been following Italian politics, this is a big move to the centre to keep this guy out of power.

 

I suspect Boris is going to make such a $&!# show out of a no-deal Brexit that any far right ideas will be panned in the future in the UK.

 

Trump is getting less popular every day.

 

Maybe the tide is turning away from the far right after all. 

As long as voters are doing okay economically and feel safe on their streets then centre left parties will do well.  As soon as voters feel it in the pocket book and have safety issues, then right wing ideology will win out.  The US is terrible for making people feel unsafe (creating a boogyman) to get votes.  

[Red Light Racicot]

8 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

Yes, and it is for a very simple reason. Republicans don't care about education. Education is always one of the first things on the chopping block as far as they're concerned.

 

Ive heard many claims that universities are prejudiced against conservatives when in truth it is conservatives who tend to distrust higher education and in particular the sciences, so its kind of the other way around.

 

There is no conspiracy going on, they simply don't have as many reasons to go. 

Republicans don't care about education, at least not public education. They appointed Betsy Devos as the Secretary of Education. Enough said.

 

And it's true, conservatives do not trust higher education: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/08/20/majority-republicans-have-negative-view-higher-ed-pew-finds

 

Results from another recent Pew survey indicate that those views have persisted. In July, only 33 percent of Republican survey respondents said higher ed had a positive effect. And 59 percent believed higher ed had a negative effect on the country’s direction, the highest number in the survey’s findings so far.

 

I was pretty surprised to find this out myself. America is a very strange country.

 

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Red Light Racicot said:

Republicans don't care about education, at least not public education. They appointed Betsy Devos as the Secretary of Education. Enough said.

 

And it's true, conservatives do not trust higher education: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/08/20/majority-republicans-have-negative-view-higher-ed-pew-finds

 

Results from another recent Pew survey indicate that those views have persisted. In July, only 33 percent of Republican survey respondents said higher ed had a positive effect. And 59 percent believed higher ed had a negative effect on the country’s direction, the highest number in the survey’s findings so far.

 

I was pretty surprised to find this out myself. America is a very strange country.

 

 

And 55% of adult Americans believe brown milk comes from brown cows.  To quote Forest Gump, “stupid is what stupid does”.  

[Kragar]

5 minutes ago, Red Light Racicot said:

Republicans don't care about education, at least not public education. They appointed Betsy Devos as the Secretary of Education. Enough said.

 

And it's true, conservatives do not trust higher education: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/08/20/majority-republicans-have-negative-view-higher-ed-pew-finds

 

Results from another recent Pew survey indicate that those views have persisted. In July, only 33 percent of Republican survey respondents said higher ed had a positive effect. And 59 percent believed higher ed had a negative effect on the country’s direction, the highest number in the survey’s findings so far.

 

I was pretty surprised to find this out myself. America is a very strange country.

 

 

I was confused by your earlier post because it had nothing to do with the month-old comment you quoted.  Universities have been "left" a lot longer than the cuts you reference.

 

As colleges move further left, and too many students graduate with near-useless degrees that celebrate more liberal-leaning concepts, of course right-leaning people are lacking in appreciation. Tack onto that the lack of people learning trades, the decline of free speech on campus, the misguided focus on needing a college degree to succeed, and the idiotic diving into massive student loan debt, and I would agree that it is hurting the country.

 

That doesn't mean I don't respect a well-earned and well-used MBA, MD, or variety of STEM degrees, to name a few. It just means there are a lot of people wasting time and money (including mine) pursuing unnecessary higher-ed degrees.

 

Your later post is also misleading, as Dem voters are also losing faith in higher education. They are just doing so at a slower rate.  Go deeper into your link, and it shows both sides respect the degrees, but Republicans are concerned about who pays for it.  Shocking!

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

The world does seem to be moving away from far right politics. 

 

Today Italy moved away from Salvini. If you haven't been following Italian politics, this is a big move to the centre to keep this guy out of power.

 

I suspect Boris is going to make such a $&!# show out of a no-deal Brexit that any far right ideas will be panned in the future in the UK.

 

Trump is getting less popular every day.

 

Maybe the tide is turning away from the far right after all. 

[Kragar]

Apparently, there are signs of softening on the left, too.

 

The Obamas, Gores, and Leo DiCaprio, among so many other like-minded celebs, are spending millions of dollars on coastal properties in Hawaii, California, Florida, Belize, and Martha's Vineyard, to name a few.  It would seem that their concerns over climate-change induced rising oceans have been allayed.  Are we all safe now?

 

And, with the Obama's buying a $15M estate at the Vineyard, it begs another question: just exactly how much is too much money, Mr President?

[J.I.A.H.N]

What a crazy mixed up world

It seemed so much simpler when there was less media

and the left and the right had smaller voices

You listen to Fox and CNN and you get 2 stories that don't match from the same incident

No wonder everyone is so confused, as common sense is talked over

News is now negative, and people see the worst of everything, every day

No wonder the left is left and the right is right, with what appears to be no middle.

 

The issues have now become global, as much as local....same issue, different points of view,

seen from a different mountain top, which is pretty much how the Dems and the Reps see it.

 

We are lost, if something big does not change

 

You can not change the environment, when the biggest polluter (China) can not slow down

because western consumption wants what they make or grow.....the populations wants it

 

Stop buying Chinese merchandise and their factories will shut down, but American (or others) factories will start up in their place

We all want (Selfish)

 

As with Global Warming, the population of the earth is putting a heavy toll on  Mother earth......

And there is no quit in sight!

 

All this this jawing over the left and right is only the tip of the iceberg

[Red Light Racicot]

On 8/28/2019 at 2:05 PM, Kragar said:

the decline of free speech on campus

Who is making this claim? To what extent is this happening? Why on Earth would a student focus on that rather then the classroom? What views are being marginalized?

 

I mean if pro-life students are harassing liberal students by calling them "baby killers" or students are pushing race realism or holocaust revisionism, then I can see why no University would tolerate any of that on their campus. 

 

On 8/28/2019 at 2:05 PM, Kragar said:

That doesn't mean I don't respect a well-earned and well-used MBA, MD, or variety of STEM degrees, to name a few. It just means there are a lot of people wasting time and money (including mine) pursuing unnecessary higher-ed degrees.

I totally agree that this is a serious problem in the USA.

 

Countries who have free college can afford to do so because it is considered an economical investment, which obliges colleges to give students the means to contribute to the economy after they have graduated.

 

The USA has serious problems putting this together, but shutting down certain programs because certain people dont like them based on opinion (if that's what you're getting at) is not a great way to fix the problem because of what that probably would lead to. (It's also a blatant violation of freedom of speech and expression in itself)

 

Finally, its a drop in the bucket compared to for example the military budget, of which many aspects are a monumental waste of money. (And also, outrageously, hardly bothers to cover veterans) Imagine how beneficial and practical it would be to downsize something like that.

 

On 8/28/2019 at 2:05 PM, Kragar said:

Your later post is also misleading, as Dem voters are also losing faith in higher education. They are just doing so at a slower rate.

Sure a similar thing is going on with Democrats but so what? They are still much more enthusiastic about secondary education, which was my contention in the first place.

 

On 8/28/2019 at 2:05 PM, Kragar said:

Go deeper into your link, and it shows both sides respect the degrees, but Republicans are concerned about who pays for it.  Shocking!

Obviously people are not going to want to pay for things they don't find useful.

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Red Light Racicot

[Kragar]

On 8/31/2019 at 2:58 PM, Red Light Racicot said:

Who is making this claim? To what extent is this happening? Why on Earth would a student focus on that rather then the classroom? What views are being marginalized?

 

I mean if pro-life students are harassing liberal students by calling them "baby killers" or students are pushing race realism or holocaust revisionism, then I can see why no University would tolerate any of that on their campus. 

 

I totally agree that this is a serious problem in the USA.

 

Countries who have free college can afford to do so because it is considered an economical investment, which obliges colleges to give students the means to contribute to the economy after they have graduated.

 

The USA has serious problems putting this together, but shutting down certain programs because certain people dont like them based on opinion (if that's what you're getting at) is not a great way to fix the problem because of what that probably would lead to. (It's also a blatant violation of freedom of speech and expression in itself)

 

Finally, its a drop in the bucket compared to for example the military budget, of which many aspects are a monumental waste of money. (And also, outrageously, hardly bothers to cover veterans) Imagine how beneficial and practical it would be to downsize something like that.

 

Sure a similar thing is going on with Democrats but so what? They are still much more enthusiastic about secondary education, which was my contention in the first place.

 

Obviously people are not going to want to pay for things they don't find useful.

 

I'm sorry, maybe you weren't aware that campuses across the country have experienced protests and shout-downs against speakers on campus, or the establishment of free-speech zones, speech codes, and safe spaces which limit speech.  Did you also know that and that over 15 states have passed or considered legislation against some or all of the above concepts (including California, Illinois, and Colorado, all of which were passed)?

 

I understand the reasoning behind free post-secondary education elsewhere.  There are limits put against the students, though, on what degrees they can pursue.  The country is only going to invest in useful degrees.  I see that as a big stumbling block here.  I'm not talking about shutting down programs outright, although that might happen as a result of restricting loans to students in more useful programs.  Given how other countries with free college implement similar restrictions, that could happen under that system as well.  If we could clean up a number of things first, I could see post-secondary education investment like you describe being more likely.  I doubt I would support it, but we'll see when we get there. If all our tuition was "free" today, it would cost over 80% of the defense budget.  A number of cuts and limitations would need to be implemented before the Feds start paying for it for us.  I strongly agree with you on treatment of vets, btw.

 

Your post that I quoted was about Republicans not caring about education and then not trusting higher education.  Everything I said in response is still valid.  You made that post regarding @Alflives's statement about universities leaning left, when in fact universities moving further to the left is the reason (not the result) of Republican's declining attitudes towards education.  

 

Maybe the US government should spend as much of their budget on education as the Canadian government does?

[infinitecarnage]

 

 

 

sjws are at work 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by infinitecarnage

[canuckster19]

On 8/28/2019 at 10:09 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

The world does seem to be moving away from far right politics. 

 

Today Italy moved away from Salvini. If you haven't been following Italian politics, this is a big move to the centre to keep this guy out of power.

 

I suspect Boris is going to make such a $&!# show out of a no-deal Brexit that any far right ideas will be panned in the future in the UK.

 

Trump is getting less popular every day.

 

Maybe the tide is turning away from the far right after all. 

 

Hopefully the far left is finally being dealt with as well, I can't believe the Liars tried to get them off on this one, good on the Boston Judge for not falling for it. Sorry, I meant lawyer.

 

As a lawyer how do you feel about this?

 

I know you're ignoring me, don't care.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by canuckster19

[Chicken.]

7 hours ago, infinitecarnage said:

 

 

 

sjws are at work 

 

 

 

watched this last night... pretty funny, very 'political' oriented show for him. the juicy smollet bit was great.

[canuckster19]

2 hours ago, Chicken. said:

watched this last night... pretty funny, very 'political' oriented show for him. the juicy smollet bit was great.

It was well calculated move from Chapelle. He got exactly the reaction he wanted and SJWs are too dumb to realize it.

 

I love how woke Rotten Tomatoes is on this one.

Edited September 4, 2019 by canuckster19

[infinitecarnage]

 

[Warhippy]

With Salvini being turfed by his own party, the recent run ups in German small house; Boris being effectively dumped by his own party in the UK and now Trump being effectively neutered by his own party it appears the run to the right has slowed to a crawl and we are seeing a slow jog back to the centre.

 

The reasons cited are

• Poorly performing economies
• loss of business investment
• loss of social programs
• offloaded tax breaks for the wealthy on the backs of the working class
• Push back to socially motivated governance

This is not to say that parties to the right are on the wane, but parties as far to the right as to be called nationalistic or "far right" have been seeing large defeats at the polls, on the ballot or within their own parties.  Where as parties to the centre right have been seeing gains.  Parties deemed "truly conservative" with a mind towards fiscal responsibility vs social push back are gaining ground.

 

That makes me happy.

 

edit*  As a side note, there's an interesting twist with parties in sweden, finland; or the nordic nations which are gaining ground with immigration overhaul as a cliff note but climate change roles as their main platform.

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

With Salvini being turfed by his own party, the recent run ups in German small house; Boris being effectively dumped by his own party in the UK and now Trump being effectively neutered by his own party it appears the run to the right has slowed to a crawl and we are seeing a slow jog back to the centre.

 

The reasons cited are

• Poorly performing economies
• loss of business investment
• loss of social programs
• offloaded tax breaks for the wealthy on the backs of the working class
• Push back to socially motivated governance

This is not to say that parties to the right are on the wane, but parties as far to the right as to be called nationalistic or "far right" have been seeing large defeats at the polls, on the ballot or within their own parties.  Where as parties to the centre right have been seeing gains.  Parties deemed "truly conservative" with a mind towards fiscal responsibility vs social push back are gaining ground.

 

That makes me happy.

 

edit*  As a side note, there's an interesting twist with parties in sweden, finland; or the nordic nations which are gaining ground with immigration overhaul as a cliff note but climate change roles as their main platform.

 

you mean empty anger didn't deliver better policies or programs? huh. 

 

I think one of the reasons the right seems to be losing steam is that its pretty much performance based - not in the sense of delivering anything tangible, its literally "performance" - a show for the angry masses. Look at Trump, he's literally a reality tv show, there's nothing of substance there whatsoever. Same with Salvini, total wind bag (I hear a lot about him from my Italian in-laws). 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

On 8/28/2019 at 7:31 AM, inane said:

It's pretty sad imagining how much you must troll YouTube for all these vids you post. Do you actually believe this garbage or are you just playing the part. 

I don’t know man, I agree with the message of the video. 

 

Its interesting how I think that you’re the one who is not getting it, but you’ll think the same of me. This is how politics has gone down since we started picking sides as monkeys or whatever. 

 

I can’t believe how others can think another way about somethings and know it’s mutual. We turn to despise and hate each other in here, not just the ideas. That’s kinda &^@#ed, but I don’t know how to fix it either. 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I don’t know man, I agree with the message of the video. 

 

Its interesting how I think that you’re the one who is not getting it, but you’ll think the same of me. This is how politics has gone down since we started picking sides as monkeys or whatever. 

 

I can’t believe how others can think another way about somethings and know it’s mutual. We turn to despise and hate each other in here, not just the ideas. That’s kinda &^@#ed, but I don’t know how to fix it either. 

Nicely stated 189.  We are at a point now, where a voice that is contrary to what is currently popular is one that is not valued.