Did Travis Green mishandle Nikolai Goldobin?

[oldnews]

Cue for armchairs at a distance to pretend to know how Goldobin was handled, and how he otherwise 'should have' been.

Fire away with the blind 'corrections' and prescriptions.

 

Personally I'm fairly confident in Green's judgement.

[189lb enforcers?]

There is already a thread for questions which don’t deserve their own thread.

 

 

[CupIsComing]

15 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

So we have seen the end of the season, and quite possibly the end of Nikolai Goldobin's career with the Vancouver Canucks.

 

It seems Travis Green had limited patience... he was not prepared to tolerate the errors, the occasional lack of focus and the lack of goal scoring production.

 

What are the facts?

Facts are... that I trust the coach better than myself, the media, and 99.5% of CDC posters.

As well, there are certainly many more things that Green (with the support of management we must assume) has assessed Goldy on that you and I can't possibly be privy to. I am not going to second guess the pros possessing less knowledge, expertise, or information than they do. 

For that reason I did not vote in the poll. 

 

Generally, with player development and assessment, it is only human nature that errors be made. Nobody gets it right 100% of the time. If one slips through now and then it sucks, but oh well. If overall we have more and better successes I am happy.

[6string]

6 hours ago, riffraff said:

I may get flamed but I find it interesting that Peteys play in the last 15 games was equally “as bad” as goldys If not moreso.

Now that you mention it I would agree though EP40 plays a strong game away from the puck too.

[coolboarder]

Tbh, I never liked Goldobin's play.   I feel that he was mishandled by Willie more than other way around.  Benched by a good breakaway goal and he never regained his confidence.   Playing cautious ever since that benching, trying to please the coach rather than play his own game within the coach's approval.   I do not think that Green has mishandled him but rather Goldobin never got it or misunderstood what Green wanted him to play as English language is not his first language.   He had issues in San Jose organization despite obvious skill and talent.   It is more of his personality/character that turned Green off in some way, the same for Willie and San Jose organization.   This is my speculation.  It has nothing to do with skill but rather his approach to the game.  

 

The difference between Petterson - Goldobin despite similar skills they possess is that Petterson has confidence, knowing what to do and the defensive style is different from rest of the team and Green appreciates it.  Petterson doesn't have to play that way in the defensive zone but he wanted to do it while Goldobin looks lost In the defensive zone.   So I would not mind if Goldobin is dealt away and find success elsewhere.  

[Dats hockey]

I like the mentality green brings but in all honest can anyone tell me with a straight face that he’s a good offensive coach? Probably not. That do to poor deployment and not giving people more a leash to you know try to score in a unique way, because you know if someone f’ed up or had a bad play to the dog house they went. Kucherov would probably be a 60 point player under Travis Green

[10pavelbure96]

We started playing better when he was taken out of the lineup and replaced in the top 6 by guys like Leivo Pearson and Baertschi.

 

Not a knock on Green or Goldy I just dont think he is a fit here, and I was pulling for him.

[Samgagner'sface]

I thought he was playing great when he was ultimately press-boxed for the season. I watched him away from the play and noticed far better effort on both sides of the puck. When he was taken out of the lineup I was shocked. As has been stated nobody here knows the complete happenings behind closed doors, but it did seem quite an odd move at the time. I do wish he would have been left in to work his way out of hitting posts and figure out how to be a little more comfortable. A little longer leash may have helped him to stop squeezing the stick too tight. 

 

It it almost seems like green wants clones or robots instead of creative players. I personally prefer watching skill players do creative things. By the end of the season even petey stopped doing creative things. I get that young players need to learn when to take chances and when not to, but sometimes mistakes help them figure it out as much as lectures and riding the pine. 

 

I guess I just felt his leash was incredibly short, and far shorter than other top 6 players on our team. 

 

I wonder what what happens with him next year

 

[Googlie]

12 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Really then why was our record better in the first half of the season then the second half.

Baertschi and Sutter

[Mo Grit]

Boucher's defensive prowess is about as useful as is Goldobin's, but he didn't choke when goal chances presented themselves.

A natural scorer like Boucher would surely have buried most of those easy gifts Goldobin couldn't convert.

Marky was suddenly keeping us in games, and Boucher's talent might have sneaked us into the play-offs already.

Green's persistence with turning Goldy into Boucher, is his only mishandling here.

 

[alt kilgore]

I like Goldobin. I thought he should have been given more ice time at the end. Also, a player can mature not only in his physical strength, but also between the ears. I'd have liked to see him end the season in Green's good books and perhaps he'd have matured a bit more in the Summer and with Igor Larionov in his ear he'd come back with more focus. Now it looks like TG has burned that bridge so we may never know.  I hope its not another case of Oh-Now-I-Get-It after he's gone like it was with Kassian, McCann and Grabner.

[samurai]

18 hours ago, 6string said:

Nikolay to me is the most puzzling of all players, highly skilled who processes the game at a very fast level. Yet weak with physicality ( making strides for sure ) though still short on being completley invested.

 

I recall going into this season thinking coach Green had seen enough of Virtanen and Hutton but he gave them their oppurtunity to make good and they did.

 

I expect the same for Goldobin and if he succeeds you have him on a budget salary too.

no he does not process at a fast pace at all.  He is slow with reads and getting pucks.  He lacks speed or physicality.  His main positive attribute is showing patience with the puck and waiting for spots - this skill is almost the opposite of what you suggest.  Goldy has been one of the players i have spent a lot of time watching this year and I just don't see him as a NHL player.   it is unfortunate.  For people who think he was mishandled, as other posters have noted he was given top 6 minutes with the best players on this team - if that is not gifting a chance I don't know what is.  Goldobin is not a NHL level player.  

[6string]

1 minute ago, samurai said:

no he does not process at a fast pace at all.  He is slow with reads and getting pucks.  He lacks speed or physicality.  His main positive attribute is showing patience with the puck and waiting for spots - this skill is almost the opposite of what you suggest.  Goldy has been one of the players i have spent a lot of time watching this year and I just don't see him as a NHL player.   it is unfortunate.  For people who think he was mishandled, as other posters have noted he was given top 6 minutes with the best players on this team - if that is not gifting a chance I don't know what is.  Goldobin is not a NHL level player.  

First sentence was enough, thankyou.

 

Lol.

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I hate to say it, but I have to side with Green on this one for a few reasons.

 

Green gave Goldobin his chance. 

 

Meanwhile, you see guys like Spooner, Motte, Schaller and Beagle work their asses off, not scoring very much but playing the right, hard way which is what Green wants. They don't put up many flashy points but when they do score they're hard-earned goals.

 

That's the type of system Green runs, to be fair it's a good one for the playoffs but not for flashy skilled players and he can only really let Pettersson and Boeser get away with stuff like that (and even then they're on a short leash, they have been brutal defensively at times this season especially Boeser). We can't have a whole line or team full of guys like that, especially if you're not putting up goals the way they are.

 

Yeah, I agree. Goldobin was given some rope.

 

And Green, with Motte like AV & Hansen or Burrows a few years ago? Had roster spots available for players who bust their ass!!!

 

A lot of coaches save roster spots for guys who fore-check, kill penalties, harass opposing D. 

 

Goldie has to do more of that!

7 hours ago, oldnews said:

Green knows what he's doing - and why.

If Goldobin wants to be a regular in Vancouver, he has next training camp to make his case - assuming he's qualified.

 

He wasn't good enough this year, unfortunately.   Part of that was being somewhat snakebitten - he might have lead the NHL in hit posts.

 

I wouldn't write him off yet -

This is my opinion near exact.

 

Give him a qualifying offer, one way, guaranteed money. He has some skills, sick dangles not all players on our team have. Its worth still trying to make something of. Admittedly has not always known when to unleash these things. His shot a temperature cooler than Pettersson's & less accurate. Which is something he could work on this summer. And overall intensity, although that was better this year than last.

 

Yes, make him earn his spot next fall! Like Gaunce? Who did not respond this year. With a challenge to improve; like Hutton? Who did! We will be under the cap, we can bury his contract based on Goldies's response...  

 

And feel no compunction not to sign more competition for him at camp.

[Lancaster]

12 hours ago, Attila Umbrus said:

But he has given tough love to JV as well. He’s played him down the line up more games than not but has tried to play him at the top but he just doesn’t produce...I think the only difference here is that Green knows he can play Jake down the line up and he will be ok. As where Goldy would be terrible in the bottom 6. They’ve maintained all along this year that they want Goldy to take a top 6 spot on the team. They left it wide open for him to steal it from guys like Baertschi, Leivo, Virtanen, but he never stole the job. He had a great first start to the year and was looking great with Petey, but at the end he just couldn’t regain the chemistry with Petey again as the games started getting harder and harder he just kinda couldn’t get anything accomplished. 

 

With all that being said, I actually don’t mind brining Goldy back for one more year. He has little to no trade value right now anyways. If we trade him now or later I don’t think it effects his value.

 

edit: sorry I wrote this too quick and didn’t notice all the mistakes lol, darn auto correct!

Baertschi has been sent down the lineup to get him to "refocus".  You see Sven start doing the little things to get into the coach's good book.... battling hard for the puck, finishing his checks, more timely line changes, blocking shots, etc.  

 

The biggest criticism for Goldy is that he's not a "complete" player.  If he can't produce offensively, he must be strong away from the puck.  Who better to work on the checking/grinding game than say being paired with Beagle or Motte?  

 

Not saying Green is the key issue, as no one is responsible for Goldobin except himself.... but some different coaching techniques should have been employed.  

[Davathor]

16 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Loui Ericksson comes to mind doing nothing but getting played.

 

Sometimes it's the little things that count

[riffraff]

4 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

Boucher's defensive prowess is about as useful as is Goldobin's, but he didn't choke when goal chances presented themselves.

A natural scorer like Boucher would surely have buried most of those easy gifts Goldobin couldn't convert.

Marky was suddenly keeping us in games, and Boucher's talent might have sneaked us into the play-offs already.

Green's persistence with turning Goldy into Boucher, is his only mishandling here.

 

Boucher?

 

what?  

 

I? 

 

Just.

 

argh.

[5nothincanucksohno]

Like Hutton, I still think there is a chance Goldy comes back and gets playing time next year (if he works hard over the summer).

[LowerMainLander18]

I think it was somewhat unavoidable. 

Things could have been different about his development if he were, let's say, in Washington organization.

But we are a rebuilding team and because we were pushed to be somewhat competitive, opportunities were allocated to those that could best help the team win now. 

If Green put Goldy in the lineup, (unless miraculously, Goldy showed exponential growth), it may have benefited Goldy more but resulted in worse development for other players. 

 

It was just not the optimal situation for both parties involved. Yet, I would not say who was at fault and vice versa.

Goldy is a skilled forward and I believe he can be a regular NHLer. I am just not sure if he will get more opportunities here. 

Sorry that his confidence/ development suffered this year but it was for the benefit of the team. 

I just wish he showed up earlier with more urgency so he could force the coaching staffs to keep giving him opportunities. (exactly what Biega and Gaudette did. Maybe Motte and Schaller, too)

[Hairy Kneel]

My point of comparison would be with our addition of two forwards Pearson and Lievo,  who are in the same type of scoring niche like Goldy around 15-20 goals

but Pearson and Lievo bring so much more, physicality, grit, compete level. I think we've all been waiting for the scorer Goldy was with the

Sarnia Sting 30-40 goals  five years ago, but I don't think he'll ever get there again by the looks of it.