HKSR

[Discussion] Marner

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So waddya guys think of the Leafs cap situation?  I don't see Marner taking less than $10M per season.  There's no way that I can see the Leafs affording that. 

 

What's Marner's value? 

 

I'm thinking a top end prospect, a couple 1st round picks, and a decent roster player?

 

So something like:

 

2019 1st

2020 1st

Juolevi

Baertschi

 

?

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10.1 is the magic number.  An offer sheet under that is 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd.  I can't see him taking less than that.

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Unless I'm reading it wrong, the Leafs would have to move $7m+ in cap to afford Marner next year...

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Because the team, and the media complex, has built up Matthews so much, I find it highly unlikely that they trade him.  But I would. Send him packing to Arizona for OEL, Keller + 1st.  And pay Marner what Matthews is making.

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11 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

There is no way Dubas trades Marner.

nope. But we could maybe poach Kapanen if we also take Marleau, or Nylander and some picks if we take Zaitsav. 

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TO could set themselves up with prospects and/or picks for the next two decades if they traded Marner (or Matthews) - but they'd never even entertain trading their born & raised GTA saviour.   Kapanen, Nylander, Dermott,  even Rielly or Kadri would go to make room for Marner.  He's their new Gilmour......heart & soul of the team from Toronto essentially. 

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43 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the Leafs would have to move $7m+ in cap to afford Marner next year...

not quite accurate

they have 3.7 in cap space presently for next season

cap likely to go up 3.5 - so they'd have 7.2

and horton's 5.3 is ltir - so they have 12.5

the horton thing needs to be finessed as he has to fit under the cap to start the season

 

but leafs have 19 players on their roster for next season with their current cap issues

so they have to do more then just sign marner

 

good thing though, that they are paying kessel 1.2 million to not play for them :P

 

 

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TOR will not trade their best player. Just like the Canucks won't trade Pettersson. If any of the young stars goes it will be Nylander. Maybe they also trade (lose) Brown, Hyman, Gardiner and Zaitsev. Marleau at over $6,000,000 for the next two years is tough for their cap situation. 

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I’m Canucks should be looking at Kapanen or Johnsson if they want to get a leafs winger on discount (a la leivo). They’re both RFA’s and are going to command money the leafs frankly can’t afford. I bet Virtanen for Kapenan 1 for 1 is possible

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2 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said:

They’ll backstab Nylander and trade him to clear room if it comes to that.

 

Or end up moving Kadri.

 

They wouldn’t trade him for anyone not named Pettersson on the Canucks. He’s their best player & the heart and soul of the team.

Wonder how much salary they'd have to retain to get rid of Nylander.

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29 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Wonder how much salary they'd have to retain to get rid of Nylander.

None tbh. Here’s why.

 

They just got really screwed over by circumstance for this year which is the window they have/had to win before cap crunch this summer. It’s funny we’re judging Nylander off this year but he didn’t even have a training camp or anything and played straight away. He ended up averaging 0.5ppg this season despite the fact he had like a 10 game slump to begin the year. If you negate that, he had a good year by his standards but people/we overlook that because it’s easy to just laugh at them instead. 

 

Next year it’s fair to say Nylander should expect to get back to his normal production with a training camp and all. But by that point it’s too late for the Leafs. They’re already going to have to re-sign Marner and inevitably will be losing key players like Gardiner already. Nylander holding out was the worst thing that could have happened. It’s on management as well for not getting it done before the season. Because 1.) he started cold and it’s effected his total production which people won’t ignore regardless of the explaining the full story as I have and 2.) as a result of that, his trade value has gone done. 

 

So even if they keep Nylander next year it’ll be a bit too late as they’ll have lost players due to the cap crunch which will weaken their team compared to this year’s team. Or if they trad him, they won’t get the value which they could have gotten before this season began.

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Just now, Generational.EP40 said:

None tbh. Here’s why.

 

They just got really screwed over by circumstance for this year which is the window they have/had to win before cap crunch this summer. It’s funny we’re judging Nylander off this year but he didn’t even have a training camp or anything and played straight away. He ended up averaging 0.5ppg this season despite the fact he had like a 10 game slump to begin the year. If you negate that, he had a good year by his standards but people/we overlook that because it’s easy to just laugh at them instead. 

 

Next year it’s fair to say Nylander should expect to get back to his normal production with a training camp and all. But by that point it’s too late for the Leafs. They’re already going to have to re-sign Marner and inevitably will be losing key players like Gardiner already. Nylander holding out was the worst thing that could have happened. It’s on management as well for not getting it done before the season. Because 1.) he started cold and it’s effected his total production which people won’t ignore regardless of the explaining the full story as I have and 2.) as a result of that, his trade value has gone done. 

 

So even if they keep Nylander next year it’ll be a bit too late as they’ll have lost players due to the cap crunch which will weaken their team compared to this year’s team. Or if they trad him, they won’t get the value which they could have gotten before this season began.

Production in the regular season or not, Nylander is soft, scared, and lazy.  Judging off his entire career, he's a spoiled brat who makes Goldobin look like a workaholic.  The guy practically needs a tourist visa to enter his own zone; even Babcock can't convince him to put in even a minimum of effort.  Worst contract in the NHL.  The guy is a huge liability even if he's scoring.

 

Gardiner not being back actually improves the Leafs' pitiful excuse of a defense; the guy is so bad in his own end he is lucky Toronto is stupid enough to put him in the lineup.  He'll be bought out within a year when a team signs him with the expectation he'll play defense to the standard of an actual NHLer.  So happy the Leafs got rid of all the quality hockey people and let an analytics dweeb who should be managing the concessions run the team.

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1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Production in the regular season or not, Nylander is soft, scared, and lazy.  Judging off his entire career, he's a spoiled brat who makes Goldobin look like a workaholic.  The guy practically needs a tourist visa to enter his own zone; even Babcock can't convince him to put in even a minimum of effort.  Worst contract in the NHL.  The guy is a huge liability even if he's scoring.

 

Gardiner not being back actually improves the Leafs' pitiful excuse of a defense; the guy is so bad in his own end he is lucky Toronto is stupid enough to put him in the lineup.  He'll be bought out within a year when a team signs him with the expectation he'll play defense to the standard of an actual NHLer.  So happy the Leafs got rid of all the quality hockey people and let an analytics dweeb who should be managing the concessions run the team.

I’ll take that as a bit of an exaggeration :lol:

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Just now, Generational.EP40 said:

I’ll take that as a bit of an exaggeration :lol:

Nope.  Dumbass proved how unqualified he is by re-signing Nylander instead of trading him for some actual NHL quality defensemen.  The only guys on the blueline who aren't total liabilities are Muzzin and Hainsey.  Meanwhile, the Leafs' skaters are softer than a truckload of pillows.

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Just now, King Heffy said:

Nope.  Dumbass proved how unqualified he is by re-signing Nylander instead of trading him for some actual NHL quality defensemen.  The only guys on the blueline who aren't total liabilities are Muzzin and Hainsey.  Meanwhile, the Leafs' skaters are softer than a truckload of pillows.

Tbf that’s the only real move he could have made. After getting JT they’ve been cap strapped. Lamoriello (not more qualified supposedly and not some analytics dweeb) wouldn’t be able to do much either.

 

Only real bad move is not trading Nylander for a d help but it’s nothing catastrophical. The Muzzin deal was excellent also.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

nope. But we could maybe poach Kapanen if we also take Marleau, or Nylander and some picks if we take Zaitsav. 

I would be pushing hard for Kapanen myself. Any dman other than QH.

Edited by Chris12345
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Posted (edited)

Marner is one of the few guys I would consider an offer sheet for.

 

5 years at $10.1 million per.

 

On the other side, we can play nice and hope to pick up some pieces s they try to fit guys under the cap.

We can take on Horton’s contract because we can’t spend all that cap room anyways as it has to be left open for Petterson.

 

Tanev and/or Sutter with 50% retained should also be attractive to them.

 

Not even sure who I would want coming back.  None of them are ideal fits as we really need some skill guys with size to complement our existing core.

 

Kapanen for sure is a target, he would probably even play the point on our PP with his shot.

Liljegren would also fit for us, for similar reasons.

 

Edited by Provost
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