Iran Says It Unintentionally Shot Down Ukrainian Airliner

[PhillipBlunt]

The Murican propaganda machine is in full swing.

[Gurn]

Here is a story that will make many question 'what the Americans say"

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/07/03/the-forgotten-us-shootdown-of-iranian-airliner-flight-655­/

"On the rare occasions the US mainstream media refer to the US shootdown of an Iranian airliner in 1988, they sustain the myth it was simply a "mistake".

 

'Today marks twenty-nine years since the shootdown by the USS Vincennes of Iran Air flight 655, which killed all of the plane’s 290 civilian passengers. This shootdown of a civilian airliner by a US naval ship occurred on July 3, 1988, toward the end of the eight-year Iran-Iraq War."

 

"

This incident is, of course, something that the people of Iran well remember. Americans who rely on the US mainstream media, on the other hand, would have to be forgiven for never having heard about it.

Furthermore, in the rare instances when the media do mention it, to this day they tend to maintain official US government falsehoods about what occurred and otherwise omit relevant details that would inform Americans about what really happened.

The lack of mention of the incident or, when it is mentioned, the deceptive reporting about what occurred illustrates an institutionalized bias in the media. The consequence is that Americans seeking to understand US-Iran relations today fail to grasp a key historical event that has helped to define that relationship.

How the Mainstream Media Report the US Shootdown of Flight 655

If one does a quick Google search for relevant keywords specific to the shootdown, only a handful of US mainstream media reports turn up on first-page results.

Max Fisher in the Washington Post wrote a piece about it several years ago, appropriately titled “The Forgotten story of Iran Air Flight 655”. For context, Fisher asserted that “the Vincennes was exchanging fire with small Iranian ships in the Persian Gulf.” As explanation for how the Vincennes “mistook the lumbering Airbus A300 civilian airliner for a much smaller and faster F-14 fighter jet”, Fisher suggested it was “perhaps” due to “the heat of battle” or “perhaps because the flight allegedly did not identify itself.”

"

The Washington Examiner a couple years ago ran a piece with the headline “Iran says 1988 airliner shootdown is why U.S. can’t be trusted”. The author, Charles Hoskinson, stated simply that “An investigation revealed that the cruiser’s crew mistook the airliner for an attacking F-14 fighter jet while involved in a confrontation with Iranian gunboats.”

Fred Kaplan in Slate noted in a 2014 piece that the incident “is almost completely forgotten” (at least in the US). His article was appropriately subtitled “The time the United States blew up a passenger plane—and covered it up.” As a journalist who had reported on the incident at the time and challenged the US government’s official story, Kaplan noted that “American officials told various lies” intended to blame the Iranians for the tragedy.

'

The government had claimed that the Vincennes was in international waters at the time, that the plane was flying “outside of the prescribed commercial air route” and descending at the “high speed” of 450 knots directly toward the Vincennes, and that the plane’s transponder was squawking a code over a military channel.

In truth, the Vincennes was in Iran’s territorial waters, the plane was ascending through 12,000 feet at 380 knots within the established commercial air route, and its transponder was squawking the plane’s identity over a civilian channel.

Like Fisher and Hoskinson, however, Kaplan nevertheless maintained the US government’s narrative that “the Iranian Airbus A300 wandered into a naval skirmish” and on that basis characterized it as a “horrible mistake”.

These are the only three examples from within the past decade that appeared in initial search results for various relevant keywords at the time of this writing. It’s also helpful see how America’s “newspaper of record”, the New York Times, has reported it over the years, by searching its online archives.

 

Doing various related keyword searches at the New York Times website turns up a smattering of articles. Without going further back, a November 1988 piece acknowledged that, contrary to the US government’s claims, “Flight 655 was behaving normally for a commercial jet”. The Times nevertheless maintained the government’s official line that “Iranian [air traffic] tower officials clearly are guilty of not listening to the dozens of radio warnings broadcast by the Navy and ordering the airliner to change course”.

The following month, the Times revealed that this attempt to blame the Iranians was also untruthful. As the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) determined in an investigation of the incident, seven of the eleven warnings issued by the Americans “were transmitted on a military channel that was inaccessible to the airliner crew.” The other four were transmitted on the international civil aviation distress frequency. Of these, only one, transmitted by the USS Sides “39 seconds before the Vincennes fired, was of sufficient clarity that it might have been ‘instantly recognizable’ to the airliner as being directed at it.”

The Times nevertheless sustained the US government’s narrative that Iran was at least partly to blame by “allowing an airliner to fly into the area at the time when warships were involved in an intense battle with Iranian gunboats.”

 

WHOLE BUNCH OF PARAGRAPHS THAT WON"T CUT AND PASTE

THEN THE CONCLUSION

"

Conclusion

The US shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655 receives only rare mentions in the US mainstream media despite being a key incident in the history of the US’s relations with Iran that serves as critical context for understanding how Iranians today view the US government.

When it is mentioned, the media’s tendency is to characterize the mass killing as an honest “mistake”, resulting from an action any other country’s navy would have taken if put in the same position. Although it has long been known that the US government’s account of the incident was a pack of lies, the US media to this day characterize it as though the resulting death of civilians was just an unfortunate consequence of war.

When Max Fisher wrote in in the Washington Post in 2013 that “the Vincennes was exchanging fire with small Iranian ships in the Persian Gulf”, it is hard to fathom that he was unaware that the US warship was in Iranian waters; and yet he declined to relay that critical piece of information to his readers.

It is equally hard to fathom that he was unaware it was the Vincennes that initiated hostilities; yet this fact, too, he omitted.

Fisher also unquestioningly parroted the US government’s claim that the Vincennes’ crew “mistook” the plane for an F-14, which he attributed either to “the heat of battle” or the plane’s failure to identify itself

It may be true that, as the naval investigation determined, Captain Rogers imagined it to be an F-14. Yet, as Lieutenant Colonel David Evans wrote in the US Naval Institute’s Proceedings Magazine in August 1993, the information received by the American ships from the plane’s transponder unambiguously identified it as an ascending commercial aircraft.

“Both Captain Rogers and Captain Carlson,” Evans noted in his essay, “had this information.”

It is no less hard to fathom how Fisher could have been unaware of the fact that Flight 655 had been squawking its identify as a civilian aircraft, something even the most precursory research into the incident would have revealed to him.

It is therefore difficult to escape the conclusion that Max Fisher’s purpose in writing was not to educate Americans about what happened, but to sustain the central myth that the shootdown was merely an unfortunate accident of the kind that happens in the fog of war.

He was, in other words, dutifully serving his role as a propagandist.

Charles Hoskinson in his 2015 Washington Examiner piece was hardly more forthcoming.

Fred Kaplan was far more forthcoming in his Slate piece from three years ago; yet even in the face of his own contrary evidence, he still preserved the central myth that the shootdown was merely a “mistake” resulting from Iran Air Flight 655 having “wandered into a naval skirmish”.

This is the same false narrative that America’s “newspaper of record” maintains on those rare occasions when the incident receives a passing mention.

The real story, in sum, is as follows:

Twenty-nine years ago, on July 3, 1988, US warships entered Iranian waters and initiated hostilities with Iranian vessels.

The consoles of the radar operators aboard the USS Vincennes at the time unambiguously showed an aircraft ascending within a commercial corridor in Iranian airspace, with the plane’s transponder signaling its identity as a commercial aircraft.

Captain Rogers nevertheless ordered his gunner to open fire on the plane, shooting it out of the sky and killing the 290 civilians on board.

 

Subsequently, rather than being held accountable for committing a war crime, Rogers and his entire crew received awards for their actions.

Like Captain Rogers, the mainstream media establishment seems to suffer from institutional “scenario fulfillment”, in which this action did not constitute a war crime or, at best, an act of international terrorism.

In the case of the media, the preconceived notion is that the US is an exceptional nation whose government is sometimes capable of “mistakes”, but only ever acts out of benevolent intent.

It is an assumption that, while deemed axiomatic by the mainstream media establishment, is no less self-delusional than Captain Rogers’ imaginary scenario of this “forgotten” episode in US-Iran relations.

This article was adapted largely from material presented on pages 349-350 of the author’s book Obstacle to Peace: The US Role in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. See the book’s references for additional resources.

[skolozsy2]

Air Disasters did a really good episode on the Vincennes.  Should have been a number of Navy personnel seeing prison time.

[HerrDrFunk]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

'The US increasingly believes that Iran mistakenly shot down a Ukrainian airliner on Wednesday, according to multiple US officials. The working theory is based on continuing analysis of data from satellites, radar and electronic data collected routinely by US military and intelligence."

 

The working theory.... I wouldn't put it past the US military and their officials to falsify reports to deflect blame.

Deflect blame from what?

[RUPERTKBD]

"Deflect blame" might be the wrong choice of words, but I'm sure the Americans would enjoy the embarrassment of Iran, if it turns out that they did indeed shoot down this plane.

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Deflect blame from what?

From creating another quagmire, and possibly taking the plane down to frame Iran.

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

From creating another quagmire, and possibly taking the plane down to frame Iran.

I find it much more likely that Iran, expecting possible retaliation from their attack, accidentally shot the plane down than the Americans did it to frame Iran. If the Americans had done it, I think president dip$&!# would be all over it and using it as an excuse to try to ramp up hostilities; which he doesn't seem to want to do today. 

 

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

"Deflect blame" might be the wrong choice of words, but I'm sure the Americans would enjoy the embarrassment of Iran, if it turns out that they did indeed shoot down this plane.

Of course but of the three scenarios, (accident, US did it to frame Iran, Iran did it accidentally), I have to go with the last one. 

[RUPERTKBD]

3 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I find it much more likely that Iran, expecting possible retaliation from their attack, accidentally shot the plane down than the Americans did it to frame Iran. If the Americans had done it, I think president dip$&!# would be all over it and using it as an excuse to try to ramp up hostilities; which he doesn't seem to want to do today. 

 

Of course but of the three scenarios, (accident, US did it to frame Iran, Iran did it accidentally), I have to go with the last one. 

FWIW, last night Cuomo had a guest who is supposedly an expert on air disasters and he suggested that the images of the wreckage were consistent with an engine fire.

 

Is till think mechanical failure is the most likely culprit, but i certainly don't discount the possibility that Iran might have made a colossal mistake.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Still no evidence to back up this claim.

 

the earlier story on CNN was based on the fact that Ukraine was investigating a missile strike as one of the possible causes for the crash.....now BBC reports that "US media" believes it was a missile strike and all of a sudden, it's "fact".

 

It's not.

 

It may turn out that Iran shot down it's own plane, mistakenly believing it was under attack, but as it sits right now, we know exactly as much as we did yesterday.

It wasn't an Iranian plane. Ukraine I believe. Majority of the passengers had Canadian passports or were going to school in Canada. Many students. Significant unrest in Iran. 

We all know how reliable CNN is (not). They loss a liable suit by that young 16 year old they smeared. 

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, Boudrias said:

It wasn't an Iranian plane. Ukraine I believe. Majority of the passengers had Canadian passports or were going to school in Canada. Many students. Significant unrest in Iran. 

We all know how reliable CNN is (not). They loss a liable suit by that young 16 year old they smeared. 

Correct on the plane. What I should have said was "a plane in it's own airspace". However, the majority of passengers were Iranian. IIRC, 82 iranians and 63 Canadian citizens.

 

"Liable suit" And they didn't lose, they settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.

 

That being said, I knew as soon as I mentioned CNN, that some Trump nut-hugger would jump in with a "Fake News!"

[Shift-4]

17 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I find it much more likely that Iran, expecting possible retaliation from their attack, accidentally shot the plane down than the Americans did it to frame Iran. If the Americans had done it, I think president dip$&!# would be all over it and using it as an excuse to try to ramp up hostilities; which he doesn't seem to want to do today. 

 

Of course but of the three scenarios, (accident, US did it to frame Iran, Iran did it accidentally), I have to go with the last one. 

Is it even possible that the US could have got a rocket that far, that quickly?

[ItsAllOursBoys]

5 hours ago, Duodenum said:

lol what a terrible source. 

That there my friend is a genetic fallacy....rejecting the source because you don't like the ideological viewpoint/what they say. That being as ti may, here's some from the center/left all saying the same thing.....

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51055219

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraine-flight-was-on-fire-in-air-and-returning-to-tehran-at-time-of-crash-iran-investigators-say/2020/01/09/9b27434c-3244-11ea-971b-43bec3ff9860_story.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukrainian-jet-crashed-killing-176-appears-have-been-shot-iranian-n1112996

https://www.newsweek.com/iranians-shot-down-ukraine-flight-mistake-sources-1481313

[ItsAllOursBoys]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

"We report the truth - and leave the Russia-Collusion fairytale to the Conspiracy Media".

 

This publication was sued for falsely implicating an innocent person in the 2017 Las Vegas shooting, and falsely identified a Michigan man as the driver of the vehicle that killed the woman during the Charlottesville riots.

 

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/374412-man-misidentified-as-charlottesville-driver-sues-far-right-websites

 

Great source.

Yet another genetic fallacy?

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

Yet another genetic fallacy?

That website is a fallacy for sure.

[DonLever]

18 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

FWIW, last night Cuomo had a guest who is supposedly an expert on air disasters and he suggested that the images of the wreckage were consistent with an engine fire.

 

Is till think mechanical failure is the most likely culprit, but i certainly don't discount the possibility that Iran might have made a colossal mistake.

I heard other aviation experts say engine fire would unlikely bring down the plane because it is capable of flying on one engine.  Unless both engines were on fire at the same time which is very unlikely.

[RUPERTKBD]

This is good news and while anything is possible, it seems odd to me that Iran would allow outside investigators if they believed they were at fault for this crash:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canadian-investigators-to-join-tehran-crash-probe-iran-says/ar-BBYMxa6?li=AAggNb9

Quote

 

Iran's civil aviation authority says it has invited Canadian investigators from the Transportation Safety Board to join a growing team probing the plane crash outside Tehran that killed 138 people believed bound for Canada.

The statement posted online said representatives from Ukraine International Airlines, the plane's operator, arrived in Tehran today to begin the work.

That announcement came as Foreign Affairs Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne spoke to his Iranian counterpart about Wednesday's crash.

A summary of the phone call released this morning by Global Affairs Canada says Champagne stressed to Mohammad Javad Zarif the need for Canadian officials to be allowed into Iran to provide consular services, help with identification of the deceased and to take part in the investigation.

His office said Champagne insisted that Canada and Canadians have "many questions which will need to be answered."

The summary did not provide any details about Zarif's reaction to Champagne's demands and Champagne's office declined to provide any further information.

It wasn't clear from the Iranian statement if the plane's manufacturer, American-based Boeing, had been invited to take part in the investigation under International Civil Aviation Organization rules that are guiding the probe.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Wednesday that Canada had pushed to be part of the Iranian-led investigation of the crash near Tehran that killed everyone on board, including 138 people bound for Canada, at least 63 of whom were Canadian citizens.

Canada severed diplomatic ties with Iran in 2012, when it labelled the country a state sponsor of terrorism.

 

 

[CBH1926]

My initial thought was that the Iranians were on high alert after the missile attack. They were prepared for missile and or aircraft attack by the U.S. Most of their armament has been procured from Soviets or its homemade. They for some reason got trigger happy or accidentally fired on the plane out of fear. Anyone who has been under the attack during the war or was waiting for one, knows what i am talking about. That was my gut feeling and i am staying with it until i get proven otherwise.

[Duodenum]

22 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

That there my friend is a genetic fallacy....rejecting the source because you don't like the ideological viewpoint/what they say. That being as ti may, here's some from the center/left all saying the same thing.....

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51055219

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraine-flight-was-on-fire-in-air-and-returning-to-tehran-at-time-of-crash-iran-investigators-say/2020/01/09/9b27434c-3244-11ea-971b-43bec3ff9860_story.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukrainian-jet-crashed-killing-176-appears-have-been-shot-iranian-n1112996

https://www.newsweek.com/iranians-shot-down-ukraine-flight-mistake-sources-1481313

lol not quite. It's a crap website that can't be trusted, don't really care what their leanings are. There are much better right wing sources. 

[Tre Mac]

36 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

And they didn't lose, they settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.

That's kind of a like an overtime loss in hockey

[canuckster19]

LOL, I was laughed at by some of you for believing that Epstein didn't kill himself and was a conspiracy nut, yet here the same lot of you go on thinking this is all a hoax, plus the whataboutism, but really it doesn't surprise me that it's the same 3-4 from the OT echo chamber... lol way to play yourselves.