oldnews Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Boeser was 3rd among forwards in ice time yesterday = 20:52 - including leading the team at 5:21 of powerplay ice time. 100% ozone starts. Not much to see here imo. Possible that this is being fishbowled? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Boeser was 3rd among forwards in ice time yesterday = 20:52 - including leading the team at 5:21 of powerplay ice time. 100% ozone starts. Not much to see here imo. Possible that this is being fishbowled? 100% O Starts! Whats up with that? Is that a function of us having guys on the bottom two lines who are supposed to do that (it’s their told to give the OZone starts to the guys who can score, or Bess ain’t good in his own end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Alflives said: 100% O Starts! Whats up with that? Is that a function of us having guys on the bottom two lines who are supposed to do that (it’s their told to give the OZone starts to the guys who can score, or Bess ain’t good in his own end? Beagle, Sutter, Schaller 0% (combined 30 dzone starts, 0 ozone). Brock 8/0. (EP 9/1 = 90%, MIller 9/2 81.85) Yeah - I think it's a function of having those 'foundation' guys provide as good and many opportunities as possible for the young forwards. Having moved Boeser off the Gaudette line possibly less focus/need to shelter that line. Virtanen with 5 d and 6 ozone starts (45.5%), had a 75% corsi yesterday - 15 shot attempts for, 5 against, with him on the ice. Gaudette 5/3 (62.5%) and 12/7 shot attempts (63.2% corsi). Virtanen - it would repeatedly appear - fairly clearly 'drives' that line. That is - if folks like 'thanalytics' lol. (I'm guessing this doesn't appear in any smarmy articles). A competent 'eye test' should arrive at the same observations imo (but 'eye tests' tend to be hopelessly overdetermined by their observer's will to see). Edited February 3, 2020 by oldnews 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Beagle, Sutter, Schaller 0% (combined 30 dzone starts, 0 ozone). Brock 8/0. Yeah - I think it's a function of having those 'foundation' guys provide as good and many opportunities as possible for the young forwards. Having moved Boeser off the Gaudette line possibly less focus/need to shelter that line. Virtanen with 5 d and 6 ozone starts (45.5%), had a 75% corsi yesterday - 15 shot attempts for, 5 against, with him on the ice. Gaudette 5/3 (62.5%) and 12/7 shot attempts (63.2% corsi). Virtanen - it would repeatedly appear - fairly clearly 'drives' that line. he does. I've been looking at the stat geek site natural stat trick lately, take it fwiw but the line comparison tool is pretty nifty. its a little clunky - you pick the team first and then submit, then you can go and pick players and see the effect with and without players on a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: he does. I've been looking at the stat geek site natural stat trick lately, take it fwiw but the line comparison tool is pretty nifty. its a little clunky - you pick the team first and then submit, then you can go and pick players and see the effect with and without players on a line. I think there's another thing that is illustrated fairly clearly by the statz - if we take that with/without concept a step further. Gaudette - since Sutter has returned ie with both Sutter and Beagle in the lineup....has 4 pts in his past 6 games (and probably 'coulda' had a few more -a grade A chance right in front of Reimer yesterday that he pulled wide, looked like a near sure goal...) Prior to that = about an 18 game stretch in the absence of Sutter - where he had a handful of pts. It's pretty obvious that Gaudette is not yet a very good 'possession' player (or faceoff guy) - but when the lineup is healthy, they are able to get him better minutes, and his production fairly predictably rises. It's been a bit of a luxury to be able to 'develop' him in the lineup at the NHL level this year, while also maintaining a winning level of competitiveness - he fairly notably struggles when either (or both) the 'foundation'/shutdown guys are absent, and when he doesn't have a complement of a pair of two-way wingers - but when he has both those conditions (ie Virtanen and Roussel and sheltered minutes) - he's been quite productive. Assuming he continues to uptick/work hard, etc - that productiveness from the '3rd line' - (actually the '4th line' imo) should continue to get better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, oldnews said: I think there's another thing that is illustrated fairly clearly by the statz - if we take that with/without concept a step further. Gaudette - since Sutter has returned ie with both Sutter and Beagle in the lineup....has 4 pts in his past 6 games (and probably 'coulda' had a few more -a grade A chance right in front of Reimer yesterday that he pulled wide, looked like a near sure goal...) Prior to that = about an 18 game stretch in the absence of Sutter - where he had a handful of pts. It's pretty obvious that Gaudette is not yet a very good 'possession' player (or faceoff guy) - but when the lineup is healthy, they are able to get him better minutes, and his production fairly predictably rises. It's been a bit of a luxury to be able to 'develop' him in the lineup at the NHL level this year, while also maintaining a winning level of competitiveness - he fairly notably struggles when either (or both) the 'foundation'/shutdown guys are absent, and when he doesn't have a complement of a pair of two-way wingers - but when he has both those conditions (ie Virtanen and Roussel and sheltered minutes) - he's been quite productive. Assuming he continues to uptick/work hard, etc - that productiveness from the '3rd line' - (actually the '4th line' imo) should continue to get better. what I don't mind about this site is its an interesting check on your own eye test and biases. I don't think looking at even 5 point differences means anything, but when you're getting up to 10 or 15% differences theres something there. E.g., for the Loui stinks crowd, well he objectively doesn't stink, at least on Bo's wing. The with/without part there is quite big. Same with Jakes effect on AG's line. I think you're bang on with Sutter, he's allowed more chances for AG's line. I personally love Jake there, it elevates things to give us 3 scoring lines. Gaudette's fine but he needs more seasoning. As things get more serious down the stretch here I think you'll continue to see more of these nights you pointed out with guys like Sutter getting literally no o-zone starts. Edited February 4, 2020 by Jimmy McGill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, bree2 said: come on, he played well yesterday , he had 5 shots on goal and he was hustling Settle down I'm not disparaging Bess. My comment was in response to the topic not a single game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think all this micro-focus on Boeser might be getting out of hand. I mean, if we look at his game log, particularly through the 'period of concern'.... https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/boesebr01/gamelog/2020/ You see that he scored 5 pts in his first 5 games of January. Then he had his dry stretch of 5 games without. And now 2 in his last 3 games. He's been a +4 in that period. I think the 'biggest' indicator there is also the thing to be least concerned about. Boeser has 3 goals in those 12 games, 2 in 1 game. Boeser not finishing is not something that I'd waste a great deal of time worrying about. He is a sniper - elite shot/release - that is his signature. It aint going away, it's just hiding for a bit. Otherwise, the team is on a tear regardless - they're winning games - and he's not exactly hurting the team, he simply isn't his usual goal-scoring self of late = a break or two, a bit of confidence and killler instinct, and it'll come back. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 hours ago, stawns said: Foolish move, imo. That line wasn't nearly as effective, despite Petey's goals. So it was foolish even though EP scored two even strength goals with BB back on his line? JVs break out and impact this year is great - but BBs previous impact and chemistry with EP and BO can't be denied either. Only BB and Bure scored 50 faster then EP but I guess this can be a what can you do for be lately forum, just like it can be in hockey so do get that too. TG putting JV on the top line is fine. Actually suggested he did that a week or so before he did...but moving BB to the third line ... well I guess it's worth the lessons and maybe from a three scoring line perspective is ok too..but it didn't work for BB, he slumped, the third line wasn't doing much of anything offensively and like I said the experiment has/had a shelf life that seems to have expired. When I made the suggestion I meant re-unite him with Bo. That line was arguably our best 5 x 5 one over the last six weeks or so and it would give BB a chance to get his mojo back AND give JV much deserved minutes Last game he had two or three good scoring chances and didn't miss by much, Reimer made good saves on them. Don't think JV should go back to the third line either - keeping his momentum up is critical too. Hate to find out this was just a streak and If we can get both of them firing then we'd be harder to handle then we already are. BB scored at a much higher rate before his rookie year injury - he's still got it just has to keep at it, his body will only get stronger and he should only get better. What was JV doing at the same age? Great he's breaking out (maybe) ... but it can't and shouldn't be done in a way that wastes BB contributions and development. When he was demoted (BB), he was fourth in scoring for a right winger. A "underachieving" BB was still top five league, coaches should be working on him to get to the next level. Time on the third line won't kill him...LE should be the regular on that line though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, oldnews said: I think all this micro-focus on Boeser might be getting out of hand. I mean, if we look at his game log, particularly through the 'period of concern'.... https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/boesebr01/gamelog/2020/ You see that he scored 5 pts in his first 5 games of January. Then he had his dry stretch of 5 games without. And now 2 in his last 3 games. He's been a +4 in that period. I think the 'biggest' indicator there is also the thing to be least concerned about. Boeser has 3 goals in those 12 games, 2 in 1 game. Boeser not finishing is not something that I'd waste a great deal of time worrying about. He is a sniper - elite shot/release - that is his signature. It aint going away, it's just hiding for a bit. Otherwise, the team is on a tear regardless - they're winning games - and he's not exactly hurting the team, he simply isn't his usual goal-scoring self of late = a break or two, a bit of confidence and killler instinct, and it'll come back. Well said. He won't be the first goal scorer we've had on the team that scores in bunches and goes on dry spells either. As long as he's getting his chances and shooting the puck the goals will come. Glad TG moved him back, even if it's only for a game and he's destined to split time with JV (who I agree drives play), and really hope that he's not destined to play on the third line more then the odd temporary time, if JVs outed and is a top six guy then great - BB has been one since his first game with us - and deserves a spot too - LEs the guy that will be displaced once Leivo is back (and he shouldn't be in the top six either unless it's a thing to raise his stock in a trade or something)... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 7:13 PM, WHL rocks said: Canucks are a deep team. Lots of competition. You gotta earn your ice time. If you're not playing hard enough or well enough for what ever reason another player that is playing well will get more ice.. Almost everyone has sick family members. Or dead family members. No need to over analyze his father being sick. That's part of life.. not just for hockey players but everyone in general. When Boeser plays better Green will reward him with more toi. Exactly. No need to give him more playing time because his dad is I'll. I don't think he's deploying him improperly at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 13 hours ago, IBatch said: So it was foolish even though EP scored two even strength goals with BB back on his line? JVs break out and impact this year is great - but BBs previous impact and chemistry with EP and BO can't be denied either. Only BB and Bure scored 50 faster then EP but I guess this can be a what can you do for be lately forum, just like it can be in hockey so do get that too. TG putting JV on the top line is fine. Actually suggested he did that a week or so before he did...but moving BB to the third line ... well I guess it's worth the lessons and maybe from a three scoring line perspective is ok too..but it didn't work for BB, he slumped, the third line wasn't doing much of anything offensively and like I said the experiment has/had a shelf life that seems to have expired. When I made the suggestion I meant re-unite him with Bo. That line was arguably our best 5 x 5 one over the last six weeks or so and it would give BB a chance to get his mojo back AND give JV much deserved minutes Last game he had two or three good scoring chances and didn't miss by much, Reimer made good saves on them. Don't think JV should go back to the third line either - keeping his momentum up is critical too. Hate to find out this was just a streak and If we can get both of them firing then we'd be harder to handle then we already are. BB scored at a much higher rate before his rookie year injury - he's still got it just has to keep at it, his body will only get stronger and he should only get better. What was JV doing at the same age? Great he's breaking out (maybe) ... but it can't and shouldn't be done in a way that wastes BB contributions and development. When he was demoted (BB), he was fourth in scoring for a right winger. A "underachieving" BB was still top five league, coaches should be working on him to get to the next level. Time on the third line won't kill him...LE should be the regular on that line though. for me, it's never been about goals or points with BB. I just don't find him to be a very impactful player and that's fine, but he shouldn't be given icetime over a player that is an impactful player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 hours ago, stawns said: for me, it's never been about goals or points with BB. I just don't find him to be a very impactful player and that's fine, but he shouldn't be given icetime over a player that is an impactful player. How many goals would make you happier? He reminds me of Adams and Courtnall, two guys that scored in bunches plus were clutch when we needed them to be. We seriously haven't had a guy like him in a very long time. This year he hasn't taken the next step, but neither has EP. If I had to pick one forward that's done the most this year so far I'd say Miller. JV is playing for his next contract and making the most of it and good for him. Thinking he's better then BB is a bit " what have you done for me lately" thinking. He's hot for sure. But let's first see if he can score 20 goals and fifty points before we declare him our best R winger. Before BB was demoted he was fourth in scoring by position in the entire league. I'm a JV fan and said he should get BB spot (but put BB back with Horvat). Playing him outside the top six is just foolish IMO. He's a sniper but also plays well enough away from the puck to hold his own. Advanced stats agree. Both goals EP scored last game BB was making sure he was in the right position. I like both these guys and they both bring different things to the table. It's still too early in their careers to really know who's going to make more of an impact long term (and that's a big prop to JV). Scoring goals is the point of the game. BB hasn't had a good year by the lofty standards he started with - im going to wait at least a year before passing judgement. Again JV is playing for a contract and has a mercurial history to say the least. Factually his future was in doubt until the last month or so... One month of great play doesn't hold water against what BB has accomplished so far - don't be too quick to pass judge these guys. Love both of them and think they both should be in the top six as of right now. Maybe your right... I hope your are ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 6 hours ago, stawns said: for me, it's never been about goals or points with BB. I just don't find him to be a very impactful player and that's fine, but he shouldn't be given icetime over a player that is an impactful player. I watched the Raptors play the Pistons, Detroit has Andre Drummond who leads the entire NBA in double doubles, but is said to be a player that does not impact the game. I thought of Brock. Phil Kessell comes to mind. BB has not scored a PP goal since November, and I just do not remember a snipe like he used to get. So, while folks say "what have you done for me lately?" I think it is a fair question. Not sniping, or scoring on the PP. If I undwerstand the Group 2 free agency (corrent me if I am wrong) Brock is in line for $8.25 Mil next contract. Is he worth that now? Will he be in 2 years +32 games? If not, then what? This also belongs to Jim and his contract design + negotiation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lmm said: I watched the Raptors play the Pistons, Detroit has Andre Drummond who leads the entire NBA in double doubles, but is said to be a player that does not impact the game. I thought of Brock. Phil Kessell comes to mind. BB has not scored a PP goal since November, and I just do not remember a snipe like he used to get. So, while folks say "what have you done for me lately?" I think it is a fair question. Not sniping, or scoring on the PP. If I undwerstand the Group 2 free agency (corrent me if I am wrong) Brock is in line for $8.25 Mil next contract. Is he worth that now? Will he be in 2 years +32 games? If not, then what? This also belongs to Jim and his contract design + negotiation Your wrong. His qualifying offer is 7.5 million - quite a few people (myself included) wished he wasn't given a bridge and was signed long term to a Tarasenko type deal. He's still capable of going on a tear and surpassing 30 goals this year - however at least his game away from the puck has improved and he's one of the better passers on the team. BB has the rest of this season plus two more to earn his next contract. Don't know why some folks are giving up on him so quickly, he's still on pace for 65-70 points, better then anyone has done on this team for a long time aside form EP last year. A couple multi goal games and he's right back to where he should be - I'm not doubting him. IF Phil Kessel comes to mind then great. He was top ten in scoring five plus years in a row during his prime - id take that in a heart beat. Edit; As far as his next contract goes - it would be like signing Tarasenko to 6.25 for eight years with the cap going up like or has next contract on a term deal. Nothing wrong with that at all. When he's 25-30 he will be in his zone. Don't have much doubt that he will score 40 plus goals several times in his career...and the money will be well spent. Edited February 4, 2020 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I honestly think Boes needed that duty on the other line to return back to a way where he drives the play a bit more. Before Petey came along he had 2 things that he did far better back then as opposed to what he does now and that's make his own plays happen (whether it be movement away from the puck or using his hands more) and working on quickening his release back to where it used to be. I think he's really put in the work when away from the first line to really do that again to generate his points and although it hasn't translated yet, it's a small sample size and I think eventually it'll come back because he's doing more to drive the play as opposed to being a passenger for the good plays that Petey and Miller are setting up for him. He wasn't doing the work on the first line but he was a distinct beneficiary of it. I think if he continues to put in the work that he was doing on the third line then he's bound for the success of the first line but with the added addition of providing something of value to it as opposed to just being another "third member on the Sedin line" type player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Your wrong. His qualifying offer is 7.5 million - quite a few people (myself included) wished he wasn't given a bridge and was signed long term to a Tarasenko type deal. He's still capable of going on a tear and surpassing 30 goals this year - however at least his game away from the puck has improved and he's one of the better passers on the team. BB has the rest of this season plus two more to earn his next contract. Don't know why some folks are giving up on him so quickly, he's still on pace for 65-70 points, better then anyone has done on this team for a long time aside form EP last year. A couple multi goal games and he's right back to where he should be - I'm not doubting him. IF Phil Kessel comes to mind then great. He was top ten in scoring five plus years in a row during his prime - id take that in a heart beat. Edit; As far as his next contract goes - it would be like signing Tarasenko to 6.25 for eight years with the cap going up like or has next contract on a term deal. Nothing wrong with that at all. When he's 25-30 he will be in his zone. Don't have much doubt that he will score 40 plus goals several times in his career...and the money will be well spent. 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Your wrong. His qualifying offer is 7.5 million - quite a few people (myself included) wished he wasn't given a bridge and was signed long term to a Tarasenko type deal. He's still capable of going on a tear and surpassing 30 goals this year - however at least his game away from the puck has improved and he's one of the better passers on the team. BB has the rest of this season plus two more to earn his next contract. Don't know why some folks are giving up on him so quickly, he's still on pace for 65-70 points, better then anyone has done on this team for a long time aside form EP last year. A couple multi goal games and he's right back to where he should be - I'm not doubting him. IF Phil Kessel comes to mind then great. He was top ten in scoring five plus years in a row during his prime - id take that in a heart beat. Edit; As far as his next contract goes - it would be like signing Tarasenko to 6.25 for eight years with the cap going up like or has next contract on a term deal. Nothing wrong with that at all. When he's 25-30 he will be in his zone. Don't have much doubt that he will score 40 plus goals several times in his career...and the money will be well spent. I thought his final year is $7.5M and his QO is that +10% = $8.25M If he does not score 40 goals in either of the next 2 seasons, that is a lot of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 1:12 PM, Arrow 1983 said: I do not think this is the proper response from a coach in this circumstance and I believe this is being poorly handed, and this comes from a TG supporter. They've tried what you deem is the "proper response" for 50 games and it's been hit or miss, but mostly miss. It sounds like you'd rather see Boeser do well but the team lose, then have the team win with Boeser playing on the 3rd line. Our first line has looked much better with Virtanen on it. We all want Brock to do well, but that's just the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeser#1fan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 So when are we going to see Boeser with Bo and Pearson for longer then two shifts. I feel like that could and would be a very good line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 TG can now hold players accountable If a player is being a passenger, he can demote him to a lower line, as long as the guy coming up takes the carrot As long as the team is winning it is great Now you have guys fighting for positions, instead of it just being gifted Same thing will happen in Training camp with new guys coming up and fighting for positions at a much lesser cost I think it is a great situation to be in, and will make players more competitive (except against the Bruins tonight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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