[Lebrun] Canucks covet O'Reilly and will deal defense to aquire him

[Pears]

Keep spewing out nonsense.

Del Zotto has his ups and downs, but he's just 24 years old, not even in his prime years. He's already equally as good as Edler offensively and just as bad defensively. You speak of guys having flash.....well Del Zotto is that type of player. Made it into the league as a 19 years old, putting up nearly 40 points, and was nominated for the Calder. If you ask Torts who was his most improved player in his last two years in New York, I guarantee you he'll say Del Zotto.

Del Zotto's best output was 41 points. Edler's best was 49. Not that big of a difference, but if Colorado had to choose between the two for ROR they'd take Edler in half a heartbeat. And MDZ is no where near the most improved in Torts' last two years. That player would be Stepan.

[Rey]

Keep spewing out nonsense.

Del Zotto has his ups and downs, but he's just 24 years old, not even in his prime years. He's already equally as good as Edler offensively and just as bad defensively. You speak of guys having flash.....well Del Zotto is that type of player. Made it into the league as a 19 years old, putting up nearly 40 points, and was nominated for the Calder. If you ask Torts who was his most improved player in his last two years in New York, I guarantee you he'll say Del Zotto.

Del Zotto has absolutely no flash. He's not physical, he's slow, his defensive game sucks, he's small. There's nothing good about him, aside that he can put up a bit of points on the PP.

Nonsense? Watch the damn game.

Torts had a habit of benching Del Zotto. AV is doing it now, too. The guy has no tools.

Here's a article, that was out not too long;

http://espn.go.com/b...es-been-alright

"A player like Michael has to play to his strengths. I've been told his strengths are his ability to beat the forecheck, join the rush, help out on the power play, get his shots through," Vigneault said in November. "I have not seen that on a consistent enough basis for him to be able to say that he's going to be in the lineup every night."

He added that day: "I've been told that Michael Del Zotto is a much better player than I've seen so far."

Everything positive about Del Zotto is a myth. Simply, because people are just looking that he's young, and in the NHL. He can't play to his strengths, because he's slow. He's only somewhat useful on the PP. Aside from that, he's crap.

John Moore looks like a stud, in comparison.

I absolutely have no idea, where you got the idea Del Zotto has been the most improved player in the past 2 years for the Rangers crap. Torts hated him, and AV hates him right now. Torts absolutely loved McDonaugh, Girardi, Staal, and those 3 guys, would look absolutely amazing. Stralman, was the next best, and then there was Del Zotto, who was everyone said was good, because of his age. The guy doesn't have a lot of tools and rangers fans, all have been optimistic because of his age. but its just laughable when you look at Del Zotto's toolbox.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, when it comes to Del Zotto.

If Del Zotto has been good as you say he has, than the Rangers wouldn't even hesitate trading Girardi, but instead, they want to re-sign a struggling Girardi. Del Zotto is their 6th guy, and is crap. There's a reason why he's been on block for a while now.

ooo, he put up some points..yeah. So did, Brent Sopel. It's topics like these, that show whether you actually watch hockey or not. If you don't, then what the hell is the basis of your opinion. and the audacity, to act like you know something when it's clear that you have no idea. Why do people like that, even bother?

[Plum]

Cal O'Reilly is only 26 still and got decent skill... why are you guys so blind to realize we really lack depth?? would you rather have dalpe/weise over Cal O'Reilly??? he will fit in nicely as our 4th line centre while his more talented brother Ryan can take our 3rd C

Cal O'Reilly is an AHLer, relax he won't be anything. He isn't even signed by the Canucks he is signed by the Comets.

[D-Money]

What people forget is that Edlers best year on the blue line is comparable to RoR's best season to date in the top 6.

Edler's best season is actually far superior to ROR's. The only reason they may be considered comparable value is that Edler has taken a step back (perhaps permanently? Maybe... Or maybe not). Whereas ROR may still get better (also a maybe).

[shiznak]

Del-Zee, I thought he was terrific [in Sunday’s 3-2 shootout defeat to the Caps], said the coach. This is a point where it could be a huge step in Michael’s career if he can stay [at this level of performance].

He’s had flashes before, but now he’s gone through the process, he’s more mature, and he’s not a young kid anymore. He’s been the best in joining the rush, he’s improved defensively, and I hope he can handle it because he needs to stay there, and maybe get better, Tortorella said of the 22-year-old, now in his fourth NHL season.

Yeah, Torts hated him yet he logged the 3rd most minutes amongst the team last year, played on the penalty kill, and was 4th on the team in hits.

I have more quotes from Torts, but that was the gist of what you're trying to prove.

Here's another one, from the Rangers assistant coach:

I think ‘DZ’ been playing pretty well for us. He’s playing physical, he’s making plays happen offensively and taking care of things in the defensive zone. When you get a ‘D’ that has the skill-set he has and can do all those things, it’s pretty valuable for the team, Rupp explained.

[D-Money]

The biggest question about O'Reilly, is whether teams think he has to skills of a Patrice Bergeron, does he have the defensive ability of a Jordan Staal, or is he a level below. It's hard to tell, with ROR, but that's a huge risk at 6.5M. ROR isn't going to bring you off your seats, he's a very hard worker, with average speed and skill. You question, how long he can keep up this work ethic. Will he be a legitimate two-way second liner, in 2-3 years time, or will he be like Kesler, and wear down after that. Only thing is, that Kesler at least, still has his speed and somewhat of a shot.

Regardless, Canucks need to do something. Puck moving should be key, so moving a top 4 is essential for that to happen.

I agree. I tend to wonder if ROR might get the benefit of most of the attention on Duchesne, Stastny & Landeskog (& now MacKinnon). Kind of like Jordan Staal, who looks lost without Crosby and Malkin getting most of the focus.

[MattFraser]

At times like this, I wish we still had Ballard. Ballard+Schroeder maybe even a 4th for O'Reilly would have been the best.

[ice orca]

Got a cramp..feel a massive Doan-Luongo thread coming down the pipe.

[Pouria]

I know people like Pears are proposing Edler for O'Reilly, but I just don't see an RFA for a NTC deal happening..

Tanev for O'Reilly seems much more realistic.

edit: OBVIOUSLY ++ on our side in tanev deal

We trade tanev and we would have a really bad defensive corp. Every defensemen is a liability in our group aside from Hamhuis and Tanev.

[bd71]

The cap is going up so O'Reilly will likely get a big deal as a RFA this summer. If the Avalanche let him go to the offer sheet route again they will get at the very least a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and possibly more if his salary goes up. So they are potentially looking at 2 1sts, a 2nd and a third if the let it play out and people think Chris Tanev gets it done? And there are desperate teams out there with lots of money. Burke doesn't like offer sheets but Calgary really needs a player like O'Reilly.

I like Tanev but they have essentially the same player in Tyson Barrie. Barrie is smaller but Tanev doesn't play real big so it evens out.

Any package to get O'Reilly is going to have to be pretty substantial. It's fairly simple in this case because Colorado is well aware of the minimum they can get for him this summer. Tanev is a nice piece but this is a big deal and lots of teams are going to be interested.

[Toews]

I agree. I tend to wonder if ROR might get the benefit of most of the attention on Duchesne, Stastny & Landeskog (& now MacKinnon). Kind of like Jordan Staal, who looks lost without Crosby and Malkin getting most of the focus.

Staal played 3C for the Penguins which meant that he got favorable match ups because of the focus of the opposition to shutting down Crosby and Malkin.

ROR now plays #1LW for the Avs, he faces top competition and still performs well at both ends of the floor. The comparison is a poor one.

[Canuck Surfer]

Here's some trade perspective for you:

Jack Johnson, a worse offensive defensemen than Edler, and a conditional first got Jeff Carter out of CBus. Edler has more value that Jack Johnson because he has proven to be a more consistent offensive threat and has been healthier throughout his career.

Erik Johnson, again a slightly worse offensive defensemen than Edler, Jay McClement, and a first landed the Blues Chris Stewart and Shattenkirk. If the Canucks could orchestrate a deal of similar return by sending out Edler and Tanev, I'd be all over it.

Tell me again why Horavt would need to be the centerpiece of a trade for a slight upgrade on Higgins?

Here's a different (kinda what happened) perspective.

Acquisitions of Johnson's (Jack #3 overall 230 lb mobile D and Erik 4'4" 235 lb @1 overall) were both mobile young D who had yet hit their peak. People were paying for unfulfilled promise. #1 and #3 overall picks are supposed to be better than has turned out.

They took a risk and lost. When you trade for young guys with smashing talent, but have not put it together yet, there is risk. When you pay high for guys that have not panned out, you usually lose.

[Henrik Kesler]

Here's a different (kinda what happened) perspective.

Acquisitions of Johnson's (Jack #3 overall 230 lb mobile D and Erik 4'4" 235 lb @1 overall) were both mobile young D who had yet hit their peak. People were paying for unfulfilled promise. #1 and #3 overall picks are supposed to be better than has turned out.

They took a risk and lost. When you trade for young guys with smashing talent, but have not put it together yet, there is risk. When you pay high for guys that have not panned out, you usually lose.

By that same token, Edler is much more established than either Johnson, shouldn't he bring a similar if not slightly greater return?

[Warhippy]

Yeah, Torts hated him yet he logged the 3rd most minutes amongst the team last year, played on the penalty kill, and was 4th on the team in hits.

I have more quotes from Torts, but that was the gist of what you're trying to prove.

Here's another one, from the Rangers assistant coach:

Ya edler is terrible but Torts has him playing the most minutes, most D zone starts playing the toughest assignments all over the ice...

MDZ out West gets ground down to a nub in months against teams like Anaheim St Louis and LA

[Warhippy]

Again,

Edlers best year is more than comparable or better than RoR`s best year. RoR is getting the benefit of playing top line minutes next to some of the fastest most dynamic forwards in the game.

Edler for RoR straight across is a great deal for the Avs

In the same mention Edler for Kane straight across is a great deal for the Jets, especially with Clitsome down with injury.

It is bothersome how people will sit here and tear down Edler`s value because they only watch the Canucks yet hype other D men like MDZ in the same breath.

Nobody has yet stood up and said what they would pay for Yandle, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk, Hedman or Seabrook as these are comparable D men. I am sure making proposals for all of them woul;d have every pick or prospect in our system flying off the shelves, yet Edler isn`t worth a 2 way center....

I personally do not see a fit for RoR in Vancouver, he isn't eligible for trade until the end of Feb anyways and has a solid price tag. I see a much better trade in Detroit, Tampa or the Islanders organizations. Where a solid pick and a solid prospect would be coming back. Items vital to the success of the club moving forward in 2 or 3 seasons once the twins seriously start declining.

But the unbelievable lack of knowledge being displayed here is troubling.

Edler + Horvat + 1st's for O Reilly....Edler Jensen Schroeder + picks, Edler Hansen Jensen+ Picks.

Seriously people, use your heads.

[Batmania]

Homer.

Typical.

[Rey]

Ya edler is terrible but Torts has him playing the most minutes, most D zone starts playing the toughest assignments all over the ice...

MDZ out West gets ground down to a nub in months against teams like Anaheim St Louis and LA

I wouldn't even bother responding to shiznak. Guy doesn't even watch the game. He throws out meaningless stats, and spent 40 minutes editing his post, to find a quote from an assistant coach, saying something positive about the player, trying to defend his point. I mean, how low can you go? Why bother, you might as well be talking hockey with a bum on a street. there's no difference.

All he's done, has been throwing out statistics. The sad part, is that it's not even correct, and some statistic he's thrown out are irrelevant. He hasn't been able to identify the Del Zotto's abilities, and isn't even able to put out any of his characteristics. Del Zotto is currently the number 6th defense man, on his team right now on a team, yet he's suppose to go somewhere else to be top guy? what a joke.

[elvis15]

...

It is bothersome how people will sit here and tear down Edler`s value because they only watch the Canucks yet hype other D men like MDZ in the same breath.

Nobody has yet stood up and said what they would pay for Yandle, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk, Hedman or Seabrook as these are comparable D men. I am sure making proposals for all of them woul;d have every pick or prospect in our system flying off the shelves, yet Edler isn`t worth a 2 way center....

...

Seriously people, use your heads.

Agreed on pretty much all counts, but thought I'd reiterate this in particular as a point I brought up earlier. There are plenty of people to laud guys like Karlsson and Subban, as well as Byfuglien and even Doughty, but are quick to tear down Edler as a defensive nightmare. He's not even the worst defensive player on this team out of our top 4, and all of those stars I just mentioned have significantly higher turnovers and giveaway/takeaway ratios than Edler does.

Edler is having an off year compared to his usual standards offensively, but that doesn't suddenly make him less valuable. I do see some merit in moving a defenceman for offensive help in the forwards, and Edler is a great piece if he wants to waive (particularly if there's worry he doesn't fit with Tort's system, although I don't think that's the case), but we aren't just going to give pieces like him away.

[Tangelos]

Again,

Edlers best year is more than comparable or better than RoR`s best year. RoR is getting the benefit of playing top line minutes next to some of the fastest most dynamic forwards in the game.

Edler for RoR straight across is a great deal for the Avs

In the same mention Edler for Kane straight across is a great deal for the Jets, especially with Clitsome down with injury.

It is bothersome how people will sit here and tear down Edler`s value because they only watch the Canucks yet hype other D men like MDZ in the same breath.

Nobody has yet stood up and said what they would pay for Yandle, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk, Hedman or Seabrook as these are comparable D men. I am sure making proposals for all of them woul;d have every pick or prospect in our system flying off the shelves, yet Edler isn`t worth a 2 way center....

I personally do not see a fit for RoR in Vancouver, he isn't eligible for trade until the end of Feb anyways and has a solid price tag. I see a much better trade in Detroit, Tampa or the Islanders organizations. Where a solid pick and a solid prospect would be coming back. Items vital to the success of the club moving forward in 2 or 3 seasons once the twins seriously start declining.

But the unbelievable lack of knowledge being displayed here is troubling.

Edler + Horvat + 1st's for O Reilly....Edler Jensen Schroeder + picks, Edler Hansen Jensen+ Picks.

Seriously people, use your heads.

Edler was good a few years ago, but how do you explain the last 2 seasons where he's been absolute crap. If past seasons meant anything to teams, then Heatley would have been traded for an allstar like Toews by now. The fact that Edler has 10 points in 30 games and is a -13 on a winning team playing the most minutes is unacceptable and pure crap. Will his career rebound? Who knows, but Colorado isn't giving up a 22 year old Patrice Bergeron to find out.

[BanTSN]

Edler: Back injury.