[Confirmed] Jim Benning signs as new Canucks GM

[theminister]

Not sure if mentioned by anyone or not but Seguins partying was out of control. The last straw was when they couldn't get him to behave himself for the 2013 playoffs. He has done well in Dallas and maybe will mature but I agree that it was a decent return. Sometimes quantity just can't buy quality though.

If Morrow reaches his ceiling, Duncan Keith, that will be a moot point.

The main thing was that they didn't let speculation and news reports lower Seguin's value and have GM's rethinking acquiring him.

Consider that Eriksson is still under contract for another two years at 4.5. I'd say they got both quantity and quality.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

If Morrow reaches his ceiling, Duncan Keith, that will be a moot point.

The main thing was that they didn't let speculation and news reports lower Seguin's value and have GM's rethinking acquiring him.

Consider that Eriksson is still under contract for another two years at 4.5. I'd say they got both quantity and quality.

You're just hitting the nail on the head today.

[cdubuya]

I think some of you are oversimplifying how trades work. I bet you most Dallas fans are thrilled with how that trade worked out. And there is such a thing as a win-win trade. Seguin is an explosive young hockey player with a big shot. He's a potential hall of fame player. You can't put a price on that. Maybe Morrow is the next DK, maybe not... that's a big if. He has been passed on by a few teams in the last few years and considering DK himself is likely a HOF player already I think that's wishful thinking. I don't really know enough on Morrow to comment fairly however, and we won't know who won the trade for a few years, but I wouldn't write it off as a win for Boston just yet.

It's a lot easier to build around 3-4 franchise players than around 7-8 very good players. Especially with the cap.

[Me_]

Well I think your suggestion of Kesler bullying players out of the organization is a pretty personal belief not really based on fact.

But I agree that IF his value in trade outweighs his value to the Canucks then you pull the trigger. All depends on his market value though. Young players and draft picks are great but an unknown quantity.

Trade does not equal young players and draft picks only. That is a Gillis view on a rebuild because the guy gave up.

Maximizing value is what this is about. Maximized is the team already by having fired Gillis and Tortorella, as well and more importantly, by hiring Linden and Benning. The whole game has changed and the fan/ media repeated one-liner stigmas that stick beyond their worth in time, ought to be put to rest.

If a trade for a 30 year old Russian superstar became available and the Canucks pulled the trigger and the dude shines, only then would Vancouver fans go ahead and believe in the absolutely unbelievable forever never: "oh my God! Bring in more Russians and old guys!". The anti-Russian sentiment was brought in by Burke and still lives on in this town, even though Bure, Mogilny and Larionov graced Canucks ice a short time ago.

The "trade equals rebuild" mentality will eventually disappear. If anything, a company should always be reinventing itself in order to keep on top of its competitors.

[TrevorLinden4ever]

Not sure if mentioned by anyone or not but Seguins partying was out of control. The last straw was when they couldn't get him to behave himself for the 2013 playoffs. He has done well in Dallas and maybe will mature but I agree that it was a decent return. Sometimes quantity just can't buy quality though.

I guess the Stanley Cup champs Blackhawks should trade Kane, meanwhile the Bruins haven't won it since trading Seguin. Hahahaha.

BTW if you think Kane is more "becoming" vis a vis partying ethics, you're naive. I've heard some vividly explicitive details on Kanes partying conduct. Think "which 'explicitive' wants to 'explicitive' my 'explicitive'" while pointing at his "explicitive" hanging out in plain view.

[Rush17]

Benning is the man. We can thank our players for allowing us to land such a coveted manager. This is the first time in the Canucks history to my knowledge we landed the best candidate on the market. Our play over the last decade and the legacy that was built here is the main reason we were able to land a gem such as Jim Benning. So thank you to all of our canucks players over the years and now we can have confidence we have someone who will lead us into the best era of Canucks history. We may even win a cup by or before our 50th anniversary :D What a great time to start over. :D

Go Canucks Go!

[awalk]

Trade does not equal young players and draft picks only. That is a Gillis view on a rebuild because the guy gave up.

Maximizing value is what this is about. Maximized is the team already by having fired Gillis and Tortorella, as well and more importantly, by hiring Linden and Benning. The whole game has changed and the fan/ media repeated one-liner stigmas that stick beyond their worth in time, ought to be put to rest.

If a trade for a 30 year old Russian superstar became available and the Canucks pulled the trigger and the dude shines, only then would Vancouver fans go ahead and believe in the absolutely unbelievable forever never: "oh my God! Bring in more Russians and old guys!". The anti-Russian sentiment was brought in by Burke and still lives on in this town, even though Bure, Mogilny and Larionov graced Canucks ice a short time ago.

The "trade equals rebuild" mentality will eventually disappear. If anything, a company should always be reinventing itself in order to keep on top of its competitors.

Well that is actually a pretty common viewpoint on trading guys like Kesler. You don't typically look towards a lateral move, at least it doesn't seem like most GMs or analysts do.

Trade doesn't necessarily equal rebuild and there are certainly past moves that have proved that. My point was and is still really simple...if you trade Kesler you probably need to replace his offensive output or you are looking at another year of watching the Canucks struggle to score goals...possibly even worse than last year.

So why trade Kesler, a good player, for an equally good player? I suggest you trade him to get better in the future, or you package him for a guy like Weber to get better now. But again, you make a deal like that, which I would love, you have a hole on offense you have to fill which is not just going to magically come from somewhere else.

I'm definitely agreeing with a lot of what you are saying, just not necessarily the basis from which it is founded upon.

[aGENT]

Well that is actually a pretty common viewpoint on trading guys like Kesler. You don't typically look towards a lateral move, at least it doesn't seem like most GMs or analysts do.

Trade doesn't necessarily equal rebuild and there are certainly past moves that have proved that. My point was and is still really simple...if you trade Kesler you probably need to replace his offensive output or you are looking at another year of watching the Canucks struggle to score goals...possibly even worse than last year.

So why trade Kesler, a good player, for an equally good player? I suggest you trade him to get better in the future, or you package him for a guy like Weber to get better now. But again, you make a deal like that, which I would love, you have a hole on offense you have to fill which is not just going to magically come from somewhere else.

I'm definitely agreeing with a lot of what you are saying, just not necessarily the basis from which it is founded upon.

In fairness, Weber would certainly replace at least some of Kesler's points/goals. Between that and whomever was filling the 2C spot it's probably largely a wash.

[Tre Mac]

Still early but I view the Seguin deal as a win-win where the Kassian/Coho deal a lose-lose haha. One trade both GMs look like geniuses the other trade both GMs well.... they both unemployed now.

[awalk]

In fairness, Weber would certainly replace at least some of Kesler's points/goals. Between that and whomever was filling the 2C spot it's probably largely a wash.

Fair. Maybe Weber is a real bad example since the guy is all worldly and on a different level.

[awalk]

I'm really not arguing against trading Kesler. At all. In fact it seems to be the main move that makes sense, and good franchises move good players like that because it helps them in the long run.

Simple point was that the move has to make sense for the Canucks, and to me that either = getting at least one reallllly good player back who will be as good if not better than Kesler down the road, or a more lateral move that refreshes your lineup while not losing out on the offense that Kesler brings. Maybe I just don't want to watch this team struggle to score 2 goals a game any time the Sedins go through one of their "slumps" any more...just me. And Maybe that is another reason why Kesler has to go.

All depends on the return...but certainly it will be refreshing to have a GM not afraid to pull the trigger on a big player move, and one who likely won't spend his time whining to the media about how hard it is to make a trade, effectively lowering that player's value significantly.

[wallstreetamigo]

Eriksson is a Selke quality forward at RW.

Smith is a young potential 30 goal scoring RW

Fraser has high-end 3rd line scorer/banger potential.

Morrow could be a LH top pairing d-man alongside Hamilton for a decade.

They got the equivalent of multiple 1st round picks and prospects. Not even close to the Thornton deal.

Boston needed to fit under the cap and maintain organizational depth and Seguin didn't fit into their plans, on or off the ice. Peverley, a 3rd line player, may never play again for all we know. Button is a spare part.

This is the exact framework of a type of deal the Canucks need. Boston will win this deal after 5 years looking back.

Spot on as always TM.

This is one of those true hockey trades that helps both teams get what they need.

[Hockey Fever]

Worst kept secret for the last month. Anyway lets hope this guy has the cohonies to address some of these no trade clauses, and make some big smart deals to really improve this team.

[Smashian Kassian]

Eriksson is a Selke quality forward at RW.

Smith is a young potential 30 goal scoring RW

Fraser has high-end 3rd line scorer/banger potential.

Morrow could be a LH top pairing d-man alongside Hamilton for a decade.

They got the equivalent of multiple 1st round picks and prospects. Not even close to the Thornton deal.

Boston needed to fit under the cap and maintain organizational depth and Seguin didn't fit into their plans, on or off the ice. Peverley, a 3rd line player, may never play again for all we know. Button is a spare part.

This is the exact framework of a type of deal the Canucks need. Boston will win this deal after 5 years looking back.

I think your taking the max upside of each player, yeah they could be that, but its not what they currently are.

Eriksson had another sub-par season, and could be as close to a buyout candidate as he is a Selke winner. He's been underwhelming for sure.

Smith was a great piece, so far the best part of the deal, he might have 30 goals seasons, but I don't think he's that consistently.

Fraser could be a useful piece, but nothing to write home about.

That's Morrow's absolute ceiling. Not necessarily his likely upside.

If Seguins hits his ceiling, he's a top 5 center in the league, who puts up around 90+ points in the regular season, has a complete game, is a gamebreaker in the playoffs and could be a key leader. Basically a slamdunk franchise player.

I don't think it was bad for Boston by anymeans, there is a ton of upside in the deal if Eriksson gets back on track, but I also don't think it was phenomenal.

[theminister]

I think your taking the max upside of each player, yeah they could be that, but its not what they currently are.

Eriksson had another sub-par season, and could be as close to a buyout candidate as he is a Selke winner. He's been underwhelming for sure.

Smith was a great piece, so far the best part of the deal, he might have 30 goals seasons, but I don't think he's that consistently.

Fraser could be a useful piece, but nothing to write home about.

That's Morrow's absolute ceiling. Not necessarily his likely upside.

If Seguins hits his ceiling, he's a top 5 center in the league, who puts up around 90+ points in the regular season, has a complete game, is a gamebreaker in the playoffs and could be a key leader. Basically a slamdunk franchise player.

I don't think it was bad for Boston by anymeans, there is a ton of upside in the deal if Eriksson gets back on track, but I also don't think it was phenomenal.

It's only worth looking at the max ceiling for each player because that is what the value for Seguin is going to be assessed at, not that Seguin will flame out or have a career ending injury. Those benchmarks must be equal. If Seguin has an average career based in his ceiling then the max potential of each other piece is also irrelevant. The value expected was not for what Seguin currently was... it's for his franchise tag.

What would be phenomenal then? Getting Crosby? A single player of equal or greater value?

Trades are calculated risks. If the calculated risk has the potential for a large pay off, especially when trading for futures, then it's a good trade. If they succeed one year after the trade it's an exceptional trade. Eriksson had a down year, true, but he was also injured early and adjusting to a new team. Morrow rose, Fraser rose, and Smith jumped up hugely.

The word 'likely' means nothing in this case. There is potential that is moving in the right direction in this deal. Dallas is banking on one piece reaching potential but Boston has three young players to sit on. Eriksson was not the key part of the deal, he was the immediate need.

[asian player]

I think your taking the max upside of each player, yeah they could be that, but its not what they currently are.

Eriksson had another sub-par season, and could be as close to a buyout candidate as he is a Selke winner. He's been underwhelming for sure.

Smith was a great piece, so far the best part of the deal, he might have 30 goals seasons, but I don't think he's that consistently.

Fraser could be a useful piece, but nothing to write home about.

That's Morrow's absolute ceiling. Not necessarily his likely upside.

If Seguins hits his ceiling, he's a top 5 center in the league, who puts up around 90+ points in the regular season, has a complete game, is a gamebreaker in the playoffs and could be a key leader. Basically a slamdunk franchise player.

I don't think it was bad for Boston by anymeans, there is a ton of upside in the deal if Eriksson gets back on track, but I also don't think it was phenomenal.

the thing is, Seguin never fit in Boston, being a center and with the attitude he had. He would never have gotten 80+ points in Boston. The Bruins management turned Seguin into several pieces, all of which have done more than what people initially thought. This is good pro scouting. It was an excellent hockey move that provided tons of depth and Eriksson, Smith, Fraser and Morrow help, and will help the team a lot more than Seguin did.

[messier's_elbow]

I think your taking the max upside of each player, yeah they could be that, but its not what they currently are.

Eriksson had another sub-par season, and could be as close to a buyout candidate as he is a Selke winner. He's been underwhelming for sure.

Smith was a great piece, so far the best part of the deal, he might have 30 goals seasons, but I don't think he's that consistently.

Fraser could be a useful piece, but nothing to write home about.

That's Morrow's absolute ceiling. Not necessarily his likely upside.

If Seguins hits his ceiling, he's a top 5 center in the league, who puts up around 90+ points in the regular season, has a complete game, is a gamebreaker in the playoffs and could be a key leader. Basically a slamdunk franchise player.

I don't think it was bad for Boston by anymeans, there is a ton of upside in the deal if Eriksson gets back on track, but I also don't think it was phenomenal.

Was Eriksson even playing in the playoffs or was he concussed again? If he was playing he was pretty invisible lol

[Smashian Kassian]

It's only worth looking at the max ceiling for each player because that is what the value for Seguin is going to be assessed at, not that Seguin will flame out or have a career ending injury. Those benchmarks must be equal. If Seguin has an average career based in his ceiling then the max potential of each other piece is also irrelevant. The value expected was not for what Seguin currently was... it's for his franchise tag.

What would be phenomenal then? Getting Crosby? A single player of equal or greater value?

Trades are calculated risks. If the calculated risk has the potential for a large pay off, especially when trading for futures, then it's a good trade. If they succeed one year after the trade it's an exceptional trade. Eriksson had a down year, true, but he was also injured early and adjusting to a new team. Morrow rose, Fraser rose, and Smith jumped up hugely.

The word 'likely' means nothing in this case. There is potential that is moving in the right direction in this deal. Dallas is banking on one piece reaching potential but Boston has three young players to sit on. Eriksson was not the key part of the deal, he was the immediate need.

Disagree, you look at his massive potential in his trade value, how can you not, but his potential isn't looked at anymore than Joe Morrow's is, that's all Joe Morrow's trade value is based on really is potential.

The value they got for what he was, wasn't bad at all, that's not what I'm saying, but there is a time to trade certain players, especially a player like him with the franchise upside he has, and I think they pulled the trigger too soon, if Seguin was nearing his upside when they traded him, then I would classify it as great or phenomenal, but considering he hadn't it must be considered that you are trading a potential franchise player, and if the return you are getting is worth it.

Phenomenal is what PIT got for Goligoski, or what NSH got for Erat IMO, this wasn't bad, I would say its good, just not phenomenal.

A better return would have come after waiting a year to trade him IMO.

And I totally disagree, Eriksson was unquestionable the key part of the deal IMO, he's a great player in his own right & was deemed a better fit than what they had seen from Seguin, (which doesn't seem to be the case) he was the most valuable part of the deal at the time without a doubt. They got some extra pieces that are good, good potential, but none of them were the main piece, Eriksson was.

I guess where I'm coming from is, for me it was obvious Seguin was trending up and they just traded him at the wrong time. Not that they ended up with a bad trade, no they ended up with some valuable pieces, but I think they could have gotten more had they traded him at the right time, as they felt they had in the video.

the thing is, Seguin never fit in Boston, being a center and with the attitude he had. He would never have gotten 80+ points in Boston. The Bruins management turned Seguin into several pieces, all of which have done more than what people initially thought. This is good pro scouting. It was an excellent hockey move that provided tons of depth and Eriksson, Smith, Fraser and Morrow help, and will help the team a lot more than Seguin did.

I completely disgaree.

He did it on a lesser team, yeah he played with Jamie Benn, but Boston has some great players aswell. And I'll say what I said before, even if he didn't put up the same amount of points, I think the would have easily got 70+ in Boston, and at the end of the season (like it currently is) his value would be higher.

I'm not saying Boston got a bad deal, or that it was a horrible decision to trade him, (as I somewhat agree with not fitting in) I just disagree that they traded him at the right time, I think trading him after this season would have been the right time, and would have garnered a better return.

Was Eriksson even playing in the playoffs or was he concussed again? If he was playing he was pretty invisible lol

Yeah he was a 3rd liner, he just hasn't worked out for them at all, though I still think he is a good player.

[KSniper88]

Excellent info about Benning!

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/Canucks+find+good+scout+Benning/9864823/story.html

[Pears]

Excellent info about Benning!

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/Canucks+find+good+scout+Benning/9864823/story.html

Very interesting tid bit in the first paragraph of that article.