Horvat Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Honestly, it is not close. Pavel was probably top 30 at his best in the NHL for speed. JV comes into the NHL in the top 5 and could be the fastest. Remember, he was the fastest forwards and backwards. I watched him train. The things he was doing will transcend the future skaters. There are a group of guys in Abbotsford that are phenomenal. group of guys? who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 group of guys? who? Vos Hockey Development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horvat Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 vos water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 vos water Also good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bure could perform any move at top speed that's why he was so dangerous. People can skate fast, but how many can really have the puck on a string and change directions as quickly as Bure could at top speed. Not many. Also his first stride was unreal. He predict the play well to get a speed advantage on even the quickest guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
people please Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lmao you guys are wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bure could perform any move at top speed that's why he was so dangerous. People can skate fast, but how many can really have the puck on a string and change directions as quickly as Bure could at top speed. Not many. Also his first stride was unreal. He predict the play well to get a speed advantage on even the quickest guys. Where Virtanen will excel, straight line at you and then through you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Where Virtanen will excel, straight line at you and then through you. Yes but once you get to the NHL, that physical difference becomes less pronounced. Virtanen may be a big boy in junior, but he's not even a big PF in the NHL at 6'1" 210~lbs (maybe he'll grow more). He's above average, and he'll certainly be able to still skate through a few guys, but it'll be less of an advantage at the NHL level. He'll need to excel at other things to be a successful NHLer, and I think he's already working on a few things. Edited January 25, 2015 by Dasein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yes but once you get to the NHL, that physical difference becomes less pronounced. Virtanen may be a big boy in junior, but he's not even a big PF in the NHL at 6'1" 210~lbs (maybe he'll grow more). He's above average, and he'll certainly be able to still skate through a few guys, but it'll be less of an advantage at the NHL level. He'll need to excel at other things to be a successful NHLer, and I think he's already working on a few things. Raffi Torres is roughly the same size, and it didn't stop him from demolishing guys. It doesn't matter if you're 5'10" 190lbs or 6'3" and 230lbs. If you can skate with power and know how to hit guys, it will send them flying regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Raffi Torres is roughly the same size, and it didn't stop him from demolishing guys. It doesn't matter if you're 5'10" 190lbs or 6'3" and 230lbs. If you can skate with power and know how to hit guys, it will send them flying regardless. True but Raffi's big hits usually come when the other guy is caught off guard. TJ Oshie comes to mind as well - I can't believe he's only 5'11" and 190lbs. I'm sure Jake will be able to catch guys off-guard or hit them on a reverse hit effectively just as these to are able to. Rather, I was talking about plays where he just goes through defenders - look at the post I was responding to. I'm just saying he won't have the size and strength edge as much as he does right now to go through defenders like he does in a straight line and will have to do other things in the NHL. Edited January 25, 2015 by Dasein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VANcanucks92 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bure vs Virtannen debate. Pavel Bure was not the fastest skater in the NHL even before he got into that huge knee injury. He will participate in those skating competitions in the all star games and never win it. He's not the fastest that said, he is deadly for his acceleration which was the best in the world for sure. I wouldn't argue against that, since Pavel Bure is in full speed at stride number 2, which not eve comparable. During Bure's era it was Mike Gartner and Tony Amonte as guys that are the "fastest" in the NHL of course we know speed means nothing if your not a talented player like bure, Say Mason Raymond and Grabner as good examples. all the speed in the world to be a mediocre player. Virtannen. anyone think he needs another year in the Dub next year??? I think he really does, why do people think he has a legit shot at the Canucks roster next year? People and Benning think this because of his already NHL body and size, and Horvat made the team at 19 and has been a good 4th line player for us and he will only get better and I could see Virtanen going the same route as Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yeah Virtanen doesn't have the height or reach to be a Lucic, Brown type of power forward. He'll probably be more of a grinder/sniper, like Dorsett physically and Evander Kane in the skill department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Looking back : http://canucksarmy.com/2014/6/18/jake-virtanen-is-good-so-don-t-draft-him Either way I still fully understand the Canucks decision to take Virtanen. If we picked Ehlers or Nylander and the became serviceable, yet undersized 35-40 point 2nd line fringe players and Virtanen became a 50-60 point power forward our fanbase would be up in arms that we passed on a player like that, who is also a BC boy. Yet if Virtanen becomes a chippy 20 point, 3rd line player and Ehlers / Nylander become 60-70 point 1st line players you probably won't hear any complaints (as long as Virtanen plays physical). I agree that Virtanen is probably higher risk pick with a lower ceiling, given all of the factors he was the safer selection. I think Virtanen will be a solid NHL player one day, but we probably did miss drafting a legit first line talent in either Ehlers or Nylander. The Canucks had the most difficult selection of the draft. I don't think the top 5 (other than Ekblad) will be very good relative to other drafts, but there were a lot of gems throughout the first round/early second. I doubt if Benning had any trouble selecting Virtanen at #6. It is true that both Ehlers and Nylander could turn out to be very good and they both did more at the World Juniors than Jake. But, as you point out. it is hard to pass up a local kid with his kind of talent. Also, if he were not local he is the kind of player Benning likes -- a guy with size, toughness, and intensity as well as outstanding basic skills (skating, shot, and stick handling). Coaching can make him a better defensive player (and both Ehlers and Nylander need work as well). My biggest question mark about Jake is the skill that is hard to describe excatly, but is sometimes called "hockey IQ", "seeing the ice", "anticipation", "instinct" or whatever. It is the ability to know where to go on the ice, when to go there, who to pass the puck to, when to pass and when to shoot, etc. This is usually the biggest single asset of the greatest players (Gretzky, Lemiuex, Crosby, etc.) McDavid obviously has it. And it is necessary to have a fair amount it to be a high end forward (Sedins, Vrbata, etc.) And it is hard to coach. Right now in junior Jake does not seem to be scoring as much as he should given his basic skills and that is what makes me wonder about this talent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LegionOfDoom Posted January 25, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2015 Brick that name really suits you. No wonder you have 4000 posts, do you just sit on here and argue with everybody to make it look like your some guru? Telling someone there knowledge is less than yours because there younger. You have uneducated facts your throwing around and belittling fellow fans, beat it troll 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 This was absolutely the right pick at 6th. This guy is going to be very valuable for us. He needs better coaching though, this is going to hinder his total game. Probably why he makes the team next year. Trade Higgings for a 2015 2nd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) This was absolutely the right pick at 6th. This guy is going to be very valuable for us. He needs better coaching though, this is going to hinder his total game. Probably why he makes the team next year. Trade Higgings for a 2015 2nd. I feel like Benning could definitely be in the market for a 2nd round pick. Based on what he's said in the last few weeks, it seems like they're looking towards the future right now. So having a full stock of picks is definitely important for that. Having an extra 2nd would make up for the loss of that 3rd round pick. Edited January 25, 2015 by DeNiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I doubt if Benning had any trouble selecting Virtanen at #6. It is true that both Ehlers and Nylander could turn out to be very good and they both did more at the World Juniors than Jake. But, as you point out. it is hard to pass up a local kid with his kind of talent. Also, if he were not local he is the kind of player Benning likes -- a guy with size, toughness, and intensity as well as outstanding basic skills (skating, shot, and stick handling). Coaching can make him a better defensive player (and both Ehlers and Nylander need work as well). My biggest question mark about Jake is the skill that is hard to describe excatly, but is sometimes called "hockey IQ", "seeing the ice", "anticipation", "instinct" or whatever. It is the ability to know where to go on the ice, when to go there, who to pass the puck to, when to pass and when to shoot, etc. This is usually the biggest single asset of the greatest players (Gretzky, Lemiuex, Crosby, etc.) McDavid obviously has it. And it is necessary to have a fair amount it to be a high end forward (Sedins, Vrbata, etc.) And it is hard to coach. Right now in junior Jake does not seem to be scoring as much as he should given his basic skills and that is what makes me wonder about this talent. Very good points. JV's lack of consistent production is very frustrating. It's almost the end of January and the rust from coming back from his shoulder rehab should be long gone. I don't blame JV's struggles on lack of hockey IQ. He didn't score 45 goals in 71 games last season by accident. I think, he's not playing with a quality centre who JV can have regular chemistry with. It wouldn't surprise me if Benning would like JV on the Canucks next season and have WD work on Virtanen's defensive game. I am definitely not impressed with the Hitmen. Not in the same class as Medicine Hat and Kelowna when it comes to developing young players. Ideally, it would be great if JV played with Horvat. Develop chemistry with a centre who will be his teammate for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Who were jakes line mates last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Very good points. JV's lack of consistent production is very frustrating. It's almost the end of January and the rust from coming back from his shoulder rehab should be long gone. I don't blame JV's struggles on lack of hockey IQ. He didn't score 45 goals in 71 games last season by accident. I think, he's not playing with a quality centre who JV can have regular chemistry with. It wouldn't surprise me if Benning would like JV on the Canucks next season and have WD work on Virtanen's defensive game. I am definitely not impressed with the Hitmen. Not in the same class as Medicine Hat and Kelowna when it comes to developing young players. Ideally, it would be great if JV played with Horvat. Develop chemistry with a centre who will be his teammate for a very long time. I really don't like the Calgary Hitmen coaching staff. They tend to bounce Virtanen around the line up. Sometimes he'd skate on the third line, and then get boosted to the 2nd line and then back down to the third line and then skates 2-3 shifts on the 1st line with Tambellini and Rankin who are both overagers that are leading the charge for the Hitmens. He has no play-making center and his lines are with players picked at the 6th or 7th round pick. His usual line is Fazleev/Lang/Virtanen. All of them are not centers, so Virtanen plays the center role at times since he can play better center than both of them. His 1st line is with a 3rd round pick, overager in Tambellini and an undrafted but promising forward Connor Rankin. Maybe French's way of thinking was that since the overage 1st line can produce scoring, if Virtanen can help boost the 2nd line with his skill set, he can then have balanced scoring lines. I hope this is the thinking or else Virtanen needs to get the hell out of there. He needs quality line mates. Nothing against Fazleev, Tambellini, Rankin, Lang, but I want Virtanen to succeed. Let's hope after next year, Virtanen can take charge once the over-agers leave this year. He's pretty much their best player. Obviously stats don't show that with Virtanen being injured for majority for the 1st half and him missing a lot of games due to the World Juniors. So really it's not lack of production and lack of consistency. He's been very good for the Hitmen's even though it doesn't stay on the stat sheet. In his last two games ever since him being injured day-to-day with that shoulder, he's had 3 points (1g 2a). 26GP/11G/17A/28P/40PIMS/+8. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Who were jakes line mates last season? Tambellini..Brassart and Chase for the most part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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