Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Phat Fingers]

7 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Gaunce put up points in junior and put up points in AHL - those don't always translate to NHL but in both cases there he showed progression so who knows.   He has decent hands (watch some of his junior/AHL highlights) and is deceptively quick when he wants to be.   Bigger body than many realize too.   He could be a pleasant surprise and, to tie this thread back together, one of the impediments to Virtanen getting a spot to start the season as Gaunce is also not afraid to throw weight around.

Agreed. To be fair Higgins is a good comparison ATM. Tipped over 20g in a few seasons. Started as a center left wing. Higgins was more of a wing and Gaunce is more of a center. 

 

Higgy was a very serviceable 2/3 liner. 

 

Both were drafted about GE same spot and I would consider Higgy to be a successful player. 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[spook007]

4 hours ago, TimberWolf said:

 

There are many, but there are many more that just busted.

 

Virt is no Bertuzzi but he could be a Torres if he works hard enough and doesn't forget to lay a hit once in a while.

I would love if he turns into Torres.... Him, Hansen and Malhotra was a brilliant line.

[MJDDawg]

7 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

What put it in perspective for me was that Shane didn't score more than 7 goals until his 5th season.

 

Jake hit that total in 55 games in his first season.

 

Just be patient people.

[canuckledraggin]

4 hours ago, guntrix said:

Except Naslund took 3 seasons to break out (2 if you discount his second season where he played only 14 games) and Bertuzzi scored almost 40 points in his first NHL season.

 

Gilman is right to compare Virtanen to Doan but we can't be looking at the exception to the rule to find solace in Virtanen's development path.

 

Jake is heading into his +4 draft year having scored 19 points in 65 games in the AHL last season. People are right to doubt even if some posters interpret it as cynicism and pessimism. 

Doubt cynicism and pessimism are the same thing. The opposite is belief hope and optimism. Wasn't Naslund 23 when he broke out?

[Theguy445]

I can understand the sentiment and desire for Jake to succeed. I want it to happen too. I'm not a fan of finding comparable stats and then saying things like "Jake can still turn out like X player". I think that one should watch how the player plays, and then look at what's holding him back, and use that analysis to make predictions. So when I look at Jake, I see a player who has a great shot, is super fast, and can throw amazing hits, but what's holding him back is his poor hockey iq; being at the right place in the right time, and his decision making when he has the puck. So now when Ferraro says that he sees Hansen as his ceiling, I can understand that because I don't really see how someone with Jake's hockey iq can make it past a third liner in the NHL. I want Jake to do well but in my mind this seems like the most logical prediction of Jake's ceiling at this moment.

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, Theguy445 said:

I can understand the sentiment and desire for Jake to succeed. I want it to happen too. I'm not a fan of finding comparable stats and then saying things like "Jake can still turn out like X player". I think that one should watch how the player plays, and then look at what's holding him back, and use that analysis to make predictions. So when I look at Jake, I see a player who has a great shot, is super fast, and can throw amazing hits, but what's holding him back is his poor hockey iq; being at the right place in the right time, and his decision making when he has the puck. So now when Ferraro says that he sees Hansen as his ceiling, I can understand that because I don't really see how someone with Jake's hockey iq can make it past a third liner in the NHL. I want Jake to do well but in my mind this seems like the most logical prediction of Jake's ceiling at this moment.

OK, do you have some test result to show that?   No offence to Ray Ferraro but low "hockey IQ" would not allow a kid to dominate in junior hockey where the game is actually quite complex/fast too.   Some players take a bit longer to adapt to pro game - simple as that until Jake shows otherwise (e.g. by not being an NHL regular by 22 or 23).

[Erik Karlsson]

 

[J-23]

7 minutes ago, Erik Karlsson said:

 

Good to see Jake excited and positive about the upcoming season. Also, cool to see Stecher and Boeser liking this post.

[Erik Karlsson]

26 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Good to see Jake excited and positive about the upcoming season. Also, cool to see Stecher and Boeser liking this post.

Yup, especially with after the Vanek signing. Was worried that might discourage a few of the younger forwards.

[Ichiban604]

On 2017-08-31 at 11:54 PM, Rob_Zepp said:

Sensitive?  Nah, only to crap skin care products.   Insecure?  Nah again....as long as gravity keeps doing its stuff and we don't fling into space, I am more than secure.   Angry?   Not that I am aware of but if you touched the rest of that pizza in the fridge that could change.   Mad?   Well, you got me there.   I think everyone is a little mad and I am afraid I am no exception.

 

I am told it was very important to you to feel that you felt you won the argument you were apparently having with yourself - well, of course you did!  You are the winner!    Good for you!  

Really there was a argument? Stop being so negative or sensitive.

[Rob_Zepp]

6 hours ago, Ichiban604 said:

Really there was a argument? Stop being so negative or sensitive.

He was arguing with himself.    I don't think I was negative (charges were balanced - pretty sure) and as before, only sensitive to really cheap facial products after shaving so it wasn't that either.   Either way, something seemed to be  upsetting so i simply agreed to whatever made it better - that seemed the right thing to do though I still have not a clue as to what could have been so upsetting.   

[JeremyCuddles]

23 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

A comparison I failed to see. Nice to see some opinions from people that aren't short sighted fans.

[missioncanucksfan]

19 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

A comparison I failed to see. Nice to see some opinions from people that aren't short sighted fans.

Andrew Ladd is another great comparison.

Took a few years to start truly hitting the score sheet

Both are the same size, high draft picks, same junior team, hickey attributes

 

Again....ppl figure if a guy doesn't score 20 in his first shift or season, that he is a bust but when he DOES finally score they love him.

Armchair quarterbacks

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Andrew Ladd is another great comparison.

Took a few years to start truly hitting the score sheet

Both are the same size, high draft picks, same junior team, hickey attributes

 

Again....ppl figure if a guy doesn't score 20 in his first shift or season, that he is a bust but when he DOES finally score they love him.

Armchair quarterbacks

It is sad to see so many give up on a kid after a bad season or two. To see all the "bust" comments from people online makes me sad. I still believe he can reach top 6, have never gave up on that belief. I am a huge Jake fanboy. Lol.

[VegasCanuck]

Vancouver even gave up on Cam Neely, look how that turned out! His real breakout came at 22.

 

Fans on this board, for the most part, have no understanding of player development. Most players get drafted and need aspects of their game "coached" into shape. Patience is a big part of how this is done!

[Fantomex]

4 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He was arguing with himself.    I don't think I was negative (charges were balanced - pretty sure) and as before, only sensitive to really cheap facial products after shaving so it wasn't that either.   Either way, something seemed to be  upsetting so i simply agreed to whatever made it better - that seemed the right thing to do though I still have not a clue as to what could have been so upsetting.   

Why are you bothering with this guy? He's clearly sad that you have an opinion that differs from his, maybe offer him a hug instead? The constant "why so sensitive" remark is a clear sign he's the one hurt. How dare you have an opinion, Rob. Especially on a hockey forum...

 

As for Jake, I've been saying it all along, player development is different for every individual. Some just get it, others take years to come around. It's so easy for posters to hide behind a keyboard and cry about how he's a bust at 21. I highly doubt most of them had/have their adult maturity on point at 21. Let the kid grow without the micro-analysation 24/7 and I'm willing to bet he becomes a great pro.

[jstewboy]

4 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Andrew Ladd is another great comparison.

Took a few years to start truly hitting the score sheet

Both are the same size, high draft picks, same junior team, hickey attributes

 

Again....ppl figure if a guy doesn't score 20 in his first shift or season, that he is a bust but when he DOES finally score they love him.

Armchair quarterbacks

Blake Wheeler is another good comparison. Didn't really rip up the NCAA as 19-22 year old, broke 60 points when he was 26 and on his 3rd team. 

 

Unfortunate that people are looking for instant gratification and not being patient with the best prospect pool we have had in recent memory. Jake especially. 

[Alflives]

Just now, jstewboy said:

Blake Wheeler is another good comparison. Didn't really rip up the NCAA as 19-22 year old, broke 60 points when he was 26 and on his 3rd team. 

 

Unfortunate that people are looking for instant gratification and not being patient with the best prospect pool we have had in recent memory. Jake especially. 

"Third team" before .Wheeler figured things out.  Want Jake to succeed with us, but do have concerns he will need to be on his second or third team before he gets going too.  

[jstewboy]

Just now, Alflives said:

"Third team" before .Wheeler figured things out.  Want Jake to succeed with us, but do have concerns he will need to be on his second or third team before he gets going too.  

To be fair, Wheeler probably wasn't a peach to deal with as a younger guy. Negated Arizona who took him 5th overall, didn't do that well with the Bruins and you could call Atlanta and Winnipeg the same team, really. His first NHL contract with the Bruins was also a 2 year 5.65MM contract. 


I was using stats for the most part as a comparison as well as position and playing style.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

He had one good year, he would skate the puck from one end of the rink to the other in a straight line and then would beat teenaged goaltenders with a powerful wrist shot.  People that still argue against the fact that Jake doesn't process the game well have no idea what they are talking about.  No offence to Ray Ferraro? He played in the show and now works FOR the show, I'm pretty sure he has a pretty damn good idea of what he is talking about don't you?  You are the most condescending poster ever, stop acting like a know it all

I remember Ray saying Jake will likely be a bigger Janik Hansen.