Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[canuckledraggin]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

There is a growing case of literature on how fatigue effects athletes decision making.  Saw some training videos of athletes working on making decisions under fatigue. I'm thinking Jake will not only be quicker on his skates with his new weight and much improved fitness, but he will also (appear to) process the game faster.  

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/v/vincelomba380768.html

[alfstonker]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

There is a growing case of literature on how fatigue effects athletes decision making.  Saw some training videos of athletes working on making decisions under fatigue. I'm thinking Jake will not only be quicker on his skates with his new weight and much improved fitness, but he will also (appear to) process the game faster.  

I mentioned that, I think it was last season Alf in connection to the amount of criticism Edler was getting. It is made worse when the player is also carrying an injury.

It is also very relevant when considering goalie rotation.

Edited August 31, 2017 by alfstonker

[Putgolzin]

On 2017-08-30 at 2:08 AM, cyoung said:

Did you just say gaunce as a top 6. Hmm what part of his game makes you think that he will be a potential top 6? Genuinely curious. 

Fair point, it might be overly-optimistic.

I suppose I just react against others overly-pessimistic outlooks. Yeah, he hasn't scored in the NHL, but he did score in the O and the A...and he scored more year-over-year in those leagues...which means to me he has (like most prospects) the ability to grow...which means there's a good chance he won't always be a 4th line plug.

[Rob_Zepp]

11 hours ago, Ichiban604 said:

I should come to this thread more often, missed your comment for many days now. 

 

Are you a sensitive person? Feel like your insecure about yourself I hope your not angry or mad.

 

Sensitive?  Nah, only to crap skin care products.   Insecure?  Nah again....as long as gravity keeps doing its stuff and we don't fling into space, I am more than secure.   Angry?   Not that I am aware of but if you touched the rest of that pizza in the fridge that could change.   Mad?   Well, you got me there.   I think everyone is a little mad and I am afraid I am no exception.

 

I am told it was very important to you to feel that you felt you won the argument you were apparently having with yourself - well, of course you did!  You are the winner!    Good for you!  

[Phat Fingers]

5 hours ago, nzan said:

Fair point, it might be overly-optimistic.

I suppose I just react against others overly-pessimistic outlooks. Yeah, he hasn't scored in the NHL, but he did score in the O and the A...and he scored more year-over-year in those leagues...which means to me he has (like most prospects) the ability to grow...which means there's a good chance he won't always be a 4th line plug.

I honestly see Gaunce's ceiling as a Higgins 2.0. Better at center, more defensive. He could be a serviceable tweener left wing, but will be most valuable as a 3rd line center. 

 

For those that basing their projections on his rookie season on a struggling team are premature.  I seem to remember Kessler struggles early, Burrows and Hansen struggled early. Lots of players struggle early, especially when given defensive assignment where scoring is more difficult.  

[cyoung]

11 hours ago, nzan said:

Fair point, it might be overly-optimistic.

I suppose I just react against others overly-pessimistic outlooks. Yeah, he hasn't scored in the NHL, but he did score in the O and the A...and he scored more year-over-year in those leagues...which means to me he has (like most prospects) the ability to grow...which means there's a good chance he won't always be a 4th line plug.

Honestly, he's capable of being a good line 3 center if he can get that foot speed going.

[Rob_Zepp]

6 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I honestly see Gaunce's ceiling as a Higgins 2.0. Better at center, more defensive. He could be a serviceable tweener left wing, but will be most valuable as a 3rd line center. 

 

For those that basing their projections on his rookie season on a struggling team are premature.  I seem to remember Kessler struggles early, Burrows and Hansen struggled early. Lots of players struggle early, especially when given defensive assignment where scoring is more difficult.  

Gaunce put up points in junior and put up points in AHL - those don't always translate to NHL but in both cases there he showed progression so who knows.   He has decent hands (watch some of his junior/AHL highlights) and is deceptively quick when he wants to be.   Bigger body than many realize too.   He could be a pleasant surprise and, to tie this thread back together, one of the impediments to Virtanen getting a spot to start the season as Gaunce is also not afraid to throw weight around.

[terrible.dee]

18 hours ago, Alflives said:

There is a growing case of literature on how fatigue effects athletes decision making.  Saw some training videos of athletes working on making decisions under fatigue. I'm thinking Jake will not only be quicker on his skates with his new weight and much improved fitness, but he will also (appear to) process the game faster.  

It really is sounding like he's taken his opportunity seriously, and although I don't see him being a top 6 player, it's looking like he will have an NHL career at least. Really glad, hate to see kids blow opportunities like he has.

[terrible.dee]

28 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Gaunce put up points in junior and put up points in AHL - those don't always translate to NHL but in both cases there he showed progression so who knows.   He has decent hands (watch some of his junior/AHL highlights) and is deceptively quick when he wants to be.   Bigger body than many realize too.   He could be a pleasant surprise and, to tie this thread back together, one of the impediments to Virtanen getting a spot to start the season as Gaunce is also not afraid to throw weight around.

Hasn't Gaunce been rehabbing some injury this summer?

 

That will really hold him back for the first half of the year

[terrible.dee]

12 hours ago, nzan said:

Fair point, it might be overly-optimistic.

I suppose I just react against others overly-pessimistic outlooks. Yeah, he hasn't scored in the NHL, but he did score in the O and the A...and he scored more year-over-year in those leagues...which means to me he has (like most prospects) the ability to grow...which means there's a good chance he won't always be a 4th line plug.

Don't worry,

 

Gaunce is going to score in the NHL, it may not be a ton, but he's going to make his mark.

[Boudrias]

53 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Gaunce put up points in junior and put up points in AHL - those don't always translate to NHL but in both cases there he showed progression so who knows.   He has decent hands (watch some of his junior/AHL highlights) and is deceptively quick when he wants to be.   Bigger body than many realize too.   He could be a pleasant surprise and, to tie this thread back together, one of the impediments to Virtanen getting a spot to start the season as Gaunce is also not afraid to throw weight around.

i have confidence that Gaunce has a strong 2nd season. If he had converted half his posts and cross bars from last year he would have put up 5 - 6 goals. Fans would have been singing a different tune. He appears to be a student of the game so I suspect he returns after a summer of review and training. If he adds a touch more physicality and his scoring rebounds he should stick. 

 

Gaunce is a sentimental favorite for me as he is the first graduate of a system being rebuilt to produce players for the Canucks. His success will confirm the process. 

[missioncanucksfan]

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

Good post, great perspective... +1

[pluralsight]

1 hour ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

Definitely a good comparison there. You can also add Nino Niederreiter as a comparable. Same size, playing style, 5th overall, absolutely struggled in the first 3 years of his career, bouncing from AHL to NHL. Now a perennial 25 goal, 50 point power forward. 

[TimberWolf]

1 hour ago, missioncanucksfan said:

 

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

 

There are many, but there are many more that just busted.

 

Virt is no Bertuzzi but he could be a Torres if he works hard enough and doesn't forget to lay a hit once in a while.

[missioncanucksfan]

22 minutes ago, TimberWolf said:

 

There are many, but there are many more that just busted.

 

Virt is no Bertuzzi but he could be a Torres if he works hard enough and doesn't forget to lay a hit once in a while.

Wow...aim high eh? 

But Torres is a good example as well

 

High draft pick that didn't go too far. Still carved out a 13yr career tho. 

Torres-Malhotra-Hansen 

Still my favorite Canucks 3rd line of all time

 

I'm positive Jake will do fine tho

 

Sometimes it just takes the right coach to get thru to a player. 

How many coaches did Doan play for during his career? Heck, his old Blazers coach Don Hay coached the 'Yotes for a season or 2.

 

Maybe Green is the guy for Jake? Maybe it's the next coach? Or another coach on another team. At that point everyone here will have a melt down and call it another dark day and how could we ever let Jake go

 

It just seems ppl these days expect a guy to score 20 on his first shift to get any respect.

Edited September 1, 2017 by missioncanucksfan

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

17 minutes ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Wow...aim high eh? 

But Torres is a good example as well

 

High draft pick that didn't go too far. Still carved out a 13yr career tho. 

Torres-Malhotra-Hansen 

Still my favorite Canucks 3rd line of all time

 

I'm positive Jake will do fine tho

 

Sometimes it just takes the right coach to get thru to a player. 

How many coaches did Doan play for during his career? Heck, his old Blazers coach Don Hay coached the 'Yotes for a season or 2.

 

Maybe Green is the guy for Jake? Maybe it's the next coach? Or another coach on another team. At that point everyone here will have a melt down and call it another dark day and how could we ever let Jake go

 

It just seems ppl these days expect a guy to score 20 on his first shift to get any respect.

Totally agree with this.

 

Jake is just one of those "big kids" with talent and speed and a shot....his head will come around enough to eclipse Torre's in my opinion.

 

i hope it's this season but whenever it is once he starts to get a grip on things he will be taking off fast and furious.

 

[Putgolzin]

4 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Don't worry,

 

Gaunce is going to score in the NHL, it may not be a ton, but he's going to make his mark.

Exactly.

If someone came on here and said he's going to be a sure-fire top liner I'd chuckle a little. But that's just the other end of the spectrum of those who can only foresee him being a 4th liner.

He'll be a good third liner, and perhaps even a bit higher (not holding my breath on that last one, but not ruling it out either).

 

[guntrix]

6 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

Except Naslund took 3 seasons to break out (2 if you discount his second season where he played only 14 games) and Bertuzzi scored almost 40 points in his first NHL season.

 

Gilman is right to compare Virtanen to Doan but we can't be looking at the exception to the rule to find solace in Virtanen's development path.

 

Jake is heading into his +4 draft year having scored 19 points in 65 games in the AHL last season. People are right to doubt even if some posters interpret it as cynicism and pessimism. 

[Phat Fingers]

5 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said:

Laurance Gilman was on TSN1040 yesterday and the subject was Shane Doan and then the subject changed to Virtanen.

 

Gilman made a huge point to say that both of their careers have run parallel.

 

Both had great junior careers, despite Doan being on a powerhouse Blazers team and WJC dream team that year

Both were drafted 6th and 7th overall

Both have the same build, and hockey attributes

Both had slow starts to their NHL careers. In year 3, Doan was still being sent up and down to AHL, and yet we are up in arms and calling Jake a bust when he has to be sent down still

In Jakes first year, he matched Doans numbers while playing 20-30 games less.

Doan didn't crack 20 goals until his 5th season, took 10 years to crack 30,  and he consistently put up 50-65 points for the rest of his career and yet everyone drools over Doan and is demanding that he be put into the HHOF.

If Jake can carve out those same numbers,(and I'm positive he will) I think fans will be doing the same. Can the fans here actually wait 10 yrs for Jake to crack 30?

Yet Ferraro chimes in that Jake has a ceiling as high as Hansen and suddenly ppl want to trade him for a bag of pucks coz they figure he will never get into the top 6 in the line-up.

 

NHL is literally LITTERED with star players that took YEARS to finally break out

Naslund, Bertuzzi, also took years to break out....look how they turned out

 

 

Applying logic in the CDC. Bravo sir!  

 

EmW