Gaudette Celly Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 1 hour ago, Gstank29 said: Last 30 pages have been a gong show....... I think we went though 30 pages in under a week, that must be a CDC record About half the posts for the past year could well be copy-and-paste. There's only so many ways you can reword, "he's not ready" or "brutal IQ" or "does nothing but hit" or "shoulda drafted Ehlers/Nylander like I wanted". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I thought he'd be far more noticeable than what he was tonight but in all fairness Canada didn't play the best game they could have. I'm probably Virtanen's biggest critics but people need to show patience, wait a bit and see how he performs/grows/develops/improves (hopefully) over the course of the tournament. One bad game, alright, lets hope he improves over the next few games and at least chips in some offence if he's not taking control of the games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 This tourny isn't some sort of elixir that's going to develop Virt in 2 weeks. He's a ways away and should be in the juniors for rest of season to develop properly. IF he's ready next year, bring him up, otherwise let him start in the AHL until he's fully ready for the big show. There is no need whatsoever to rush any of the prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 1 hour ago, Odd. said: Okay, first off, we all know Virtanen will not replace the Sedins. Virtanen, a physical forward, who plays a power forward game, will not get 70-80 points consistently, or may not even reach it at all. As a sixth overall pick, that's not bad seeing as that many of the sixth overall picks in the past years have either bust, went overseas, haven't succeeded, or all. Gilbert Brule, Al Montoya, Nikita Filatov, possibly Brett Connolly, are all examples. Lets look at the ones that have succeeded. Scott Hartnell, who never really dominated the W, who's got same size as Virtanen, was a 6th overall pick who made his team as a 19 year old. Did he absolutely dominate like others expect Virtanen would in his first year in pro? Absolutely not. 16 points in 75 games was a great learning curve for him. He then had 41 points next year, and then the year after, went back down to 34. His highest points were 67. He's a 25-30 goal scorer. And he's a sixth overall pick. Sam Gagner on the other hand dominated his first NHL year and put up a career high 49 points. He's never yet to reach the 50 point mark yet. Mikko Koivu had time in the AHL. His first year in the NHL, he put up Bo Horvat type numbers. He's steadily increased his point totals, but also had years where his points weren't high. His career high is 71 points. Derick Brassard has been a 30-40 point player until last year where his career high was 60. Hell even Jim Benning was a 6th overall pick and did he put up 71 points or above? No. Back then, it was much easier to score. Not saying Benning was bad or anything. Oliver Ekman Larsson, has not put up 50 or more points. The excuse for both? They're defenceman so the numbers they put up are impressive. However, Jake isn't a defenceman so lets continue on. The highest point totals to come from a sixth overall pick since 2000 is 71 points. Nobody has surpassed 71 points yet. Keep in mind the only sixth overall pick since 1980 who became an absolutely stud and dominated the NHL was Peter Forsberg. Ryan Smyth reached 70 points once, but had 50-60 point seasons respectively. Hell even before 2000, going back to 1990, only 4 people actually had respective NHL careers. Two (Ryan Smyth, and Viktor Kozlov) had 70 points but never reached 71. Only Peter Forsberg, and Corey Stillman surpassed 71 points as a 6th overall pick (Forsberg surpassed 71 points by more than 40 points) If anyone is expecting Virtanen to become a 70-80 point type player, a Jamie Benn, a Cam Neely, or a Todd Bertuzzi, you're outta your mind and get a cup of coffee. If he gets somewhere around 50-60 points, maybe 70 point once, that's a great career for a 6th overall pick whether you be a powerforward (Hartnell), a skilled forward (Brassard, Gagner), or a two-way forward (Koivu, Michealik). Hopefully, he puts up Scott Hartnell numbers. The numbers Scott Hartnell has put up over the years might be a good indicative of what Virtanen's numbers might look like. Both play the same game. Hard-nosed, physical, goal-scorers. You, I like you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 1 hour ago, Odd. said: Okay, first off, we all know Virtanen will not replace the Sedins. Virtanen, a physical forward, who plays a power forward game, will not get 70-80 points consistently, or may not even reach it at all. As a sixth overall pick, that's not bad seeing as that many of the sixth overall picks in the past years have either bust, went overseas, haven't succeeded, or all. Gilbert Brule, Al Montoya, Nikita Filatov, possibly Brett Connolly, are all examples. Lets look at the ones that have succeeded. Scott Hartnell, who never really dominated the W, who's got same size as Virtanen, was a 6th overall pick who made his team as a 19 year old. Did he absolutely dominate like others expect Virtanen would in his first year in pro? Absolutely not. 16 points in 75 games was a great learning curve for him. He then had 41 points next year, and then the year after, went back down to 34. His highest points were 67. He's a 25-30 goal scorer. And he's a sixth overall pick. Sam Gagner on the other hand dominated his first NHL year and put up a career high 49 points. He's never yet to reach the 50 point mark yet. Mikko Koivu had time in the AHL. His first year in the NHL, he put up Bo Horvat type numbers. He's steadily increased his point totals, but also had years where his points weren't high. His career high is 71 points. Derick Brassard has been a 30-40 point player until last year where his career high was 60. Hell even Jim Benning was a 6th overall pick and did he put up 71 points or above? No. Back then, it was much easier to score. Not saying Benning was bad or anything. Oliver Ekman Larsson, has not put up 50 or more points. The excuse for both? They're defenceman so the numbers they put up are impressive. However, Jake isn't a defenceman so lets continue on. The highest point totals to come from a sixth overall pick since 2000 is 71 points. Nobody has surpassed 71 points yet. Keep in mind the only sixth overall pick since 1980 who became an absolutely stud and dominated the NHL was Peter Forsberg. Ryan Smyth reached 70 points once, but had 50-60 point seasons respectively. Hell even before 2000, going back to 1990, only 4 people actually had respective NHL careers. Two (Ryan Smyth, and Viktor Kozlov) had 70 points but never reached 71. Only Peter Forsberg, and Corey Stillman surpassed 71 points as a 6th overall pick (Forsberg surpassed 71 points by more than 40 points) If anyone is expecting Virtanen to become a 70-80 point type player, a Jamie Benn, a Cam Neely, or a Todd Bertuzzi, you're outta your mind and get a cup of coffee. If he gets somewhere around 50-60 points, maybe 70 point once, that's a great career for a 6th overall pick whether you be a powerforward (Hartnell), a skilled forward (Brassard, Gagner), or a two-way forward (Koivu, Michealik). Hopefully, he puts up Scott Hartnell numbers. The numbers Scott Hartnell has put up over the years might be a good indicative of what Virtanen's numbers might look like. Both play the same game. Hard-nosed, physical, goal-scorers. Lesson learned, next time we get a 6th overall, freaking don't think twice just trade it. Flawed, we could've picked ehlers or nylander and this bloody excuse will not com up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: About half the posts for the past year could well be copy-and-paste. There's only so many ways you can reword, "he's not ready" or "brutal IQ" or "does nothing but hit" or "shoulda drafted Ehlers/Nylander like I wanted". same could be said about the excuses butthatsnoneofmybusiness.jpeg Edited December 27, 2015 by guntrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 2 minutes ago, guntrix said: same could be said about the excuses butthatsnoneofmybusiness.jpeg Indeed, eventually the incessant butthurt and whining gets exasperating and someone decides to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 11 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: Lesson learned, next time we get a 6th overall, freaking don't think twice just trade it. Flawed, we could've picked ehlers or nylander and this bloody excuse will not com up Umm yeah it would. Ehlers and Nylander aren't going to be elite talents in today's NHL like everyone thinks they will be. Ehlers has been totally shut down since his hot start. Teams figured out how to play him. Nylander looks good and will probably be the best of the group (points wise) but I doubt he gets to that elite level. The options at 6th when we drafted JV really weren't that great. I think that JV had the highest potential of everyone there. He has the tools to become a 30 goal scoring physicaly dominant player. You don't pass that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 22 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Indeed, eventually the incessant butthurt and whining gets exasperating and someone decides to respond. A more accurate analogy on CDC and Virtanen: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 4 minutes ago, Delta76 said: Umm yeah it would. Ehlers and Nylander aren't going to be elite talents in today's NHL like everyone thinks they will be. Ehlers has been totally shut down since his hot start. Teams figured out how to play him. Nylander looks good and will probably be the best of the group (points wise) but I doubt he gets to that elite level. The options at 6th when we drafted JV really weren't that great. I think that JV had the highest potential of everyone there. He has the tools to become a 30 goal scoring physicaly dominant player. You don't pass that up. Ha-ha, nylander and ehlers somehow can't be elite, while JV will because of what? he can hit. He barely knows what's he's doing in the NHL, compare to Ehlers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Just now, Cowardrobertford said: Ha-ha, nylander and ehlers somehow can't be elite, while JV will because of what? he can hit. He barely knows what's he's doing in the NHL, compare to Ehlers. When did I say JV will be elite? I said he probably had the most potential at the time. I also said I believe Nylander would get the highest totals our of the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 2 minutes ago, Delta76 said: When did I say JV will be elite? I said he probably had the most potential at the time. I also said I believe Nylander would get the highest totals our of the three. They'll literally say and strawman anything just to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: They'll literally say and strawman anything just to argue. Haha yeah it appears that way. Sometimes I wonder why I bother coming into this thread. Let alone replying to people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Just now, Delta76 said: When did I say JV will be elite? I said he probably had the most potential at the time. I also said I believe Nylander would get the highest totals our of the three. I think that JV had the highest potential of everyone there. He has the tools to become a 30 goal scoring physicaly dominant player. You don't pass that up. So he has the highest potential? Considering where he is right now compare to Nyl, and EHlers. Ehlers and Nylander aren't going to be elite talents in today's NHL like everyone thinks they will be. And Virtanen does not have the tools to be a 30 goal dominant scorer like you think he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I'll agree they're totally different players, Nylander/Ehlers/Virtanen, and all we can hope is that Virtanen becomes the best Virtanen that he can be. That is, he can become the best skilled powerforward possible. At the end of the day, is the best Virtanen possible (say 30-40 goal scorer, 70 point player) better than the best Nylander possible (90 point center)? Obviously I still think we should have taken the guy with the higher offensive ceiling with the #6 pick in Nylander and gone for a tough powerforward with our 24th pick, but we filled two needs regardless with Virtanen and McCann. My only issue is that it's much harder to find that elite top line center with a #24 pick and Nylander may have been that guy. Would have been a minor switch of values (higher value guy the center, lower value guy the powerforward winger) but in the grand scheme of things Benning did address our needs, just not the best of his ability. If McCann can somehow end up being that 18 minute, 60-70 point two way top line center, the Virtanen pick is nullified and I'll be happy because at least we'll have a top line center. Of course, the chance of McCann being a first line star compared to Nylander is much lower, they are different centers, but we just need that top-end elite offensive talent in our young pool of guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 5 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: I think that JV had the highest potential of everyone there. He has the tools to become a 30 goal scoring physicaly dominant player. You don't pass that up. So he has the highest potential? Considering where he is right now compare to Nyl, and EHlers. Ehlers and Nylander aren't going to be elite talents in today's NHL like everyone thinks they will be. And Virtanen does not have the tools to be a 30 goal dominant scorer like you think he has. HAD the highest potential. HAD refers to the past. Which implies I was talking about the draft. Do I really need to give you an English lesson so you can comprehend my posts? Virtanen does have the tools, wicked shot, big body and blazing fast. He just needs to put it together. I don't think it's likely that he gets there but it's possible and it seemed very likely after his draft season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tystick Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I wonder what this thread will be like 1-3 years from now. Virtanen is 19 games into his NHL career. Soak that in. NINETEEN. And people here are doubting his potential. He's potted 4 points and thrown 53 hits in those 19 games, but yet people here are doubting his potential. The kid turned 19 four months ago. I'm very curious what exactly some people are expecting him to do. We didn't draft McDavid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Just now, Delta76 said: HAD the highest potential. HAD refers to the past. Which implies I was talking about the draft. Do I really need to give you an English lesson so you can comprehend my posts? Virtanen does have the tools, wicked shot, big body and blazing fast. He just needs to put it together. I don't think it's likely that he gets there but it's possible and it seemed very likely after his draft season. Hm, interesting even before the draft there's already an issue, he has low hockey IQ and have a tunnel vision, and when picking at the draft is the best player has a higher potential Tools? How many players in each draft have the same tools he has? Shouldnt I expect more from Virt, the second coming of who Can Neely, bertuzzi, future top 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 4 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: Hm, interesting even before the draft there's already an issue, he has low hockey IQ and have a tunnel vision, and when picking at the draft is the best player has a higher potential Tools? How many players in each draft have the same tools he has? Shouldnt I expect more from Virt, the second coming of who Can Neely, bertuzzi, future top 6 IQ was said to be an issue before the draft (although I believe it's overblown a little) but, I still think that after a 40+ goal and near PPG playing second line (? I'm not sure on the actual numbers) it was justified to take him at 6. Not many players in the draft had the tools Jake has. He was the fastest player in the draft class, his shot was (and still is) wicked fast, his coach on the Hitmen talked about it and his body checks were probably top of his draft class. I never said Virtanen is the next Neely. What I am saying is at the time he was the right pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 "Jake was not given a spot in the NHL because they need to sell tickets. It was the Nucks view that like Bo he was physically ready and if they COULD have they would have sent him to the AHL but they couldn't. " Could he have been sent overseas to play with Mathews or on some other team? If not then the NHL is the right spot to be, since the ahl was out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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