Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[CANUCK-EXPRESS]

On 24/12/2015 at 7:38 PM, The 5th Line said:

Okay If we all need to have patience then why do you bother criticizing him?  You, me and others criticize him when he does not do well so I don't really see the dilemma here?  In fact, since we all need to have patience let's just shut down the prospects thread completely.  

I don't expect him to be an effective player right away, but I expect him to work harder and maybe produce some damn offense once in awhile and I;m going to say this for the last time..I watched hikm play plenty last year in Calgary and I wasn't all that impressed there either and why wouldn't I be upset that our 6th overall player can't do diddly squat offensively at the pro level yet.  Look at the state of this franchise, look at our drafting history.  Why wouldn't I be upset that we didn't pick a player who I see has elite level potential with our earliest pick since the Sedins?  

 

5 minutes ago, Tystick said:

Love it.

Many haters expectations of this kid are far too high. He has the potential to be a physical, offensive top 6 forward.

People need to be patient.

Don't use that word on this thread, this is what you will get

[Gaudette Celly]

39 minutes ago, Odd. said:

I'm done.

Welcome to the Jake Virtanen thread.  It's been this way since the day he was drafted.  Between the butthurt and the Nancies, know that when you click on the link if his most-recent performance was anything less than positive that you'll find several pages of hand-wringing, know-it-all gloating, and despondent Nellying.  This could well go on for a couple years yet.  Just hold your nose before you click, and like going into an airport restroom, get in and out fast.

[Tystick]

1 minute ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said:

 

Don't use that word on this thread, this is what you will get

Just preaching the reality of the situation. Very few step into pro and dominate.

Virtanen needs to adjust to a pro game, going back to junior will do nothing for his development. Many of his assets are NHL ready, he just needs to put the pieces together. 

I'm very confident he'll become a special player for us. Patience is what I recommend.

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said:

Ok that's the managements fault, don't get mad at Jake for it.

Nor is it particularly true. 

[Tystick]

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Nor is it particularly true. 

It's really not.

Jake is completely capable of playing pro hockey. He may not be great yet, but he certainly wont reach another level unless he plays with players better than himself.

End of story.

[guntrix]

Came here to read the excuses. Was not disappointed /100.

 

And I can't believe that some people are saying that he didn't have a bad game. You couldn't make this up!

[CanadianRugby]

Can't trash Virtanen's game today too much, not very many Canadians stood out for their good play.

In general though his hockey IQ seems pretty awful from what I've seen him play.  I was hoping he'd do well going against guys his own age.  I can see him developing into a good physical player but pretty disappointing considering his draft position. 

Edited December 26, 2015 by CanadianRugby

[Mathew Barzal]

Kid suffers from Kesler-itis.

Stop up and dish the puck, it's not that hard. At least Kesler has his Selke caliber defensive acumen to fall back on when he struggles. 

[guntrix]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Cue people overreacting and predicting his future based on one world junior game...

Cue people overreacting based on one good prelim game in the past few months. Oh wait, it already happened! 

Today wasn't the outlier, it was the last game. 

[Odd.]

1 hour ago, Spotted Zebra said:

What exactly are you going to take from his game against Denmark? This was the toughest game of the pre round robbin stage, and Jake had a poor game if you want to go easy on him. Having said that he had a great game before against Sweden. 

You say re-examine expectations, but have not had a pick that high since the Sedins, you needed to hit that pick out of the park. Everyone talks about rebuild on the fly. The 6th overall pick in that draft class was your golden ticket. Hey if he doesn't turn out we will have a few more so we can thank him for that. 

I'm not saying give up on him, in fact I think he will turn into a serviceable player, AFTER he spends next year and the year after in the AHL. 

What's irritating, is that you have guys like Brendan Gaunce and Hunter Shinkrauk, who have put in the time in the minors, struggled, only to succeed, and then you have Jake who has been gifted a spot on the team, because management needs to sell tickets. 

Okay, first off, we all know Virtanen will not replace the Sedins. Virtanen, a physical forward, who plays a power forward game, will not get 70-80 points consistently, or may not even reach it at all. As a sixth overall pick, that's not bad seeing as that many of the sixth overall picks in the past years have either bust, went overseas, haven't succeeded, or all. Gilbert Brule, Al Montoya, Nikita Filatov, possibly Brett Connolly, are all examples. 

Lets look at the ones that have succeeded. 

Scott Hartnell, who never really dominated the W, who's got same size as Virtanen, was a 6th overall pick who made his team as a 19 year old. Did he absolutely dominate like others expect Virtanen would in his first year in pro? Absolutely not. 16 points in 75 games was a great learning curve for him. He then had 41 points next year, and then the year after, went back down to 34. 

His highest points were 67. He's a 25-30 goal scorer. And he's a sixth overall pick.

Sam Gagner on the other hand dominated his first NHL year and put up a career high 49 points. He's never yet to reach the 50 point mark yet.

Mikko Koivu had time in the AHL. His first year in the NHL, he put up Bo Horvat type numbers. He's steadily increased his point totals, but also had years where his points weren't high. His career high is 71 points.

Derick Brassard has been a 30-40 point player until last year where his career high was 60.

Hell even Jim Benning was a 6th overall pick and did he put up 71 points or above? No. Back then, it was much easier to score. Not saying Benning was bad or anything. Oliver Ekman Larsson, has not put up 50 or more points. The excuse for both? They're defenceman so the numbers they put up are impressive. However, Jake isn't a defenceman so lets continue on.

The highest point totals to come from a sixth overall pick since 2000 is 71 points. Nobody has surpassed 71 points yet. Keep in mind the only sixth overall pick since 1980 who became an absolutely stud and dominated the NHL was Peter Forsberg. Ryan Smyth reached 70 points once, but had 50-60 point seasons respectively. Hell even before 2000, going back to 1990, only 4 people actually had respective NHL careers. Two (Ryan Smyth, and Viktor Kozlov) had 70 points but never reached 71. Only Peter Forsberg, and Corey Stillman surpassed 71 points as a 6th overall pick (Forsberg surpassed 71 points by more than 40 points)

If anyone is expecting Virtanen to become a 70-80 point type player, a Jamie Benn, a Cam Neely, or a Todd Bertuzzi, you're outta your mind and get a cup of coffee. If he gets somewhere around 50-60 points, maybe 70 point once, that's a great career for a 6th overall pick whether you be a powerforward (Hartnell), a skilled forward (Brassard, Gagner), or a two-way forward (Koivu, Michealik). Hopefully, he puts up Scott Hartnell numbers. The numbers Scott Hartnell has put up over the years might be a good indicative of what Virtanen's numbers might look like. Both play the same game. Hard-nosed, physical, goal-scorers. 

 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Odd.

[Qwags]

CDC isn't exactly known for its patience.

[canuckledraggin]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

You know those people (you may be one of them) who hang out in the GDT or the ones on the facebook comments that continuiously slam our players when they perform poorly, or slam our team for having a lack of talent.  I just do things differently, I go straight to the source of our problem.  Our drafting and developing is and always has been one of the worst in the NHL and we finally get a chance to snag a top end talent but no we take the kid who constantly plays a poor, useless game. We pick a player who has shown good speed, but what else?    This is a player who we now have to deal with for the next 10-15 years (that's a long time).

I try not to be negative but it's hard when I read ridiculous comments consisting of people who are actually still trying to make up excuses on why they think Jake is playing poorly right now or the comments from people who actually have the nerve to say he looks good out there...

He wasn't awful out there today imo but I was still frustrated watching him take shots from the goal line, making risky passes and floating around.  I thought he was our big strong power forward who just needs time to develop?  I thought he was supposed to dominate these 17-19 year olds?

 

 

Now that is funny right there.

Try harder it`s not working.

[Gstank29]

Last 30 pages have been a gong show....... I think we went though 30 pages in under a week, that must be a CDC record

[CanadianRugby]

Just now, Mathew Barzal said:

Kid suffers from Kesler-itis.

Stop up and dish the puck, it's not that hard. At least Kesler has his Selke caliber defensive acumen to fall back on when he struggles. 

You need passing/vision/hockeyIQ skillllls to be able to pass.  It's easy to say dish the puck.  He did dish the puck today, just it was almost always to the wrong spot.  Virtanen was drafted high because of his athletic abilities and hard shot.  Not passing skills. 

At the draft scouts talked about Virtanen being a power player with "a lack of creativity." 

 

On a side note.  To the people opposed to tanking.  Look at the draft when we took Virtanen.

1. Aaron Ekblad

2. Sam Reinhart

3. Leon Draisaitl

4. Sam Bennett

5. Michael Dal Colle

6. Jake Virtanen

[Ihatetomatoes]

10 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Okay, first off, we all know Virtanen will not replace the Sedins. Virtanen, a physical forward, who plays a power forward game, will not get 70-80 points consistently, or may not even reach it at all. As a sixth overall pick, that's not bad seeing as that many of the sixth overall picks in the past years have either bust, went overseas, haven't succeeded, or all. Gilbert Brule, Al Montoya, Nikita Filatov, possibly Brett Connolly, are all examples. 

Lets look at the ones that have succeeded. 

Scott Hartnell, who never really dominated the W, who's got same size as Virtanen, was a 6th overall pick who made his team as a 19 year old. Did he absolutely dominate like others expect Virtanen would in his first year in pro? Absolutely not. 16 points in 75 games was a great learning curve for him. He then had 41 points next year, and then the year after, went back down to 34. 

His highest points were 67. He's a 25-30 goal scorer. And he's a sixth overall pick.

Sam Gagner on the other hand dominated his first NHL year and put up a career high 49 points. He's never yet to reach the 50 point mark yet.

Mikko Koivu had time in the AHL. His first year in the NHL, he put up Bo Horvat type numbers. He's steadily increased his point totals, but also had years where his points weren't high. His career high is 71 points.

Derick Brassard has been a 30-40 point player until last year where his career high was 60.

Hell even Jim Benning was a 6th overall pick and did he put up 71 points or above? No. Back then, it was much easier to score. Not saying Benning was bad or anything. Oliver Ekman Larsson, has not put up 50 or more points. The excuse for both? They're defenceman so the numbers they put up are impressive. However, Jake isn't a defenceman so lets continue on.

The highest point totals to come from a sixth overall pick since 2000 is 71 points. Nobody has surpassed 71 points yet. Keep in mind the only sixth overall pick since 1980 who became an absolutely stud and dominated the NHL was Peter Forsberg. Ryan Smyth reached 70 points once, but had 50-60 point seasons respectively. Hell even before 2000, going back to 1990, only 4 people actually had respective NHL careers. Two (Ryan Smyth, and Viktor Kozlov) had 70 points but never reached 71. Only Peter Forsberg, and Corey Stillman surpassed 71 points as a 6th overall pick (Forsberg surpassed 71 points by more than 40 points)

If anyone is expecting Virtanen to become a 70-80 point type player, a Jamie Benn, a Cam Neely, or a Todd Bertuzzi, get outta your mind and get a cup of coffee. If he gets somewhere around 50-60 points, maybe 70 point once, that's a great career. Hopefully, he puts up Scott Hartnell numbers. The numbers Scott Hartnell has put up over the years might be a good indicative of what Virtanen's numbers might look like. Both play the same game. Hard-nosed, physical, goal-scorers. 

 

It's not about the 6th overall pick it's about who was picked after him. We'll see how it turns out but if Nylander/Ehlers /Ritchie turn out to be elite players than it was a huge mistake of a pick, especially considering the huge question marks in his game even before the draft. 

[Odd.]

1 minute ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

It's not about the 6th overall pick it's about who was picked after him. We'll see how it turns out but if Nylander/Ehlers /Ritchie turn out to be elite players than it was a huge mistake of a pick, especially considering the huge question marks in his game even before the draft. 

Oddly enough, I don't care about them. I don't care if Nylander, Ehlers, Ritchie have better careers. We took Jake, and that's that. The only thing I care is that he succeeds. Just like everyone else hopefully here.

 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Odd.

[asian player]

Jake underperformed today. It really didn't matter if the whole team struggled. It's just a poor excuse. As returning player, he needs to lead. As for his hockey IQ, I've been saying this all along, Jake does not have good hockey IQ. He is constantly out of position and doesn't know what to do without the puck. However, we didn't draft him expect him to think like Crosby. He needs to use his speed to be effective on the forecheck. He needs to be the most physically dominant player on the ice day in day out. He needs to learn to use his shot effectively. He needs to use all the physical tools he has been blessed with. Until he learns to play with what he has on a consistent basis, he won't be nearly as effective as he could be. He is going to have a specific role or niche at the professional level. He probably won't be an elite scorer in the NHL but he can be extremely effective as a power forward who can score off the rush. As for this tournament, there is no excuse for him not to perform. We need to see him DOMINATE physically and we need to see him move his  feet and have his way with these defensemen. 

[aGENT]

48 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Okay, first off, we all know Virtanen will not replace the Sedins. Virtanen, a physical forward, who plays a power forward game, will not get 70-80 points consistently, or may not even reach it at all. As a sixth overall pick, that's not bad seeing as that many of the sixth overall picks in the past years have either bust, went overseas, haven't succeeded, or all. Gilbert Brule, Al Montoya, Nikita Filatov, possibly Brett Connolly, are all examples. 

Lets look at the ones that have succeeded. 

Scott Hartnell, who never really dominated the W, who's got same size as Virtanen, was a 6th overall pick who made his team as a 19 year old. Did he absolutely dominate like others expect Virtanen would in his first year in pro? Absolutely not. 16 points in 75 games was a great learning curve for him. He then had 41 points next year, and then the year after, went back down to 34. 

His highest points were 67. He's a 25-30 goal scorer. And he's a sixth overall pick.

Sam Gagner on the other hand dominated his first NHL year and put up a career high 49 points. He's never yet to reach the 50 point mark yet.

Mikko Koivu had time in the AHL. His first year in the NHL, he put up Bo Horvat type numbers. He's steadily increased his point totals, but also had years where his points weren't high. His career high is 71 points.

Derick Brassard has been a 30-40 point player until last year where his career high was 60.

Hell even Jim Benning was a 6th overall pick and did he put up 71 points or above? No. Back then, it was much easier to score. Not saying Benning was bad or anything. Oliver Ekman Larsson, has not put up 50 or more points. The excuse for both? They're defenceman so the numbers they put up are impressive. However, Jake isn't a defenceman so lets continue on.

The highest point totals to come from a sixth overall pick since 2000 is 71 points. Nobody has surpassed 71 points yet. Keep in mind the only sixth overall pick since 1980 who became an absolutely stud and dominated the NHL was Peter Forsberg. Ryan Smyth reached 70 points once, but had 50-60 point seasons respectively. Hell even before 2000, going back to 1990, only 4 people actually had respective NHL careers. Two (Ryan Smyth, and Viktor Kozlov) had 70 points but never reached 71. Only Peter Forsberg, and Corey Stillman surpassed 71 points as a 6th overall pick (Forsberg surpassed 71 points by more than 40 points)

If anyone is expecting Virtanen to become a 70-80 point type player, a Jamie Benn, a Cam Neely, or a Todd Bertuzzi, you're outta your mind and get a cup of coffee. If he gets somewhere around 50-60 points, maybe 70 point once, that's a great career for a 6th overall pick whether you be a powerforward (Hartnell), a skilled forward (Brassard, Gagner), or a two-way forward (Koivu, Michealik). Hopefully, he puts up Scott Hartnell numbers. The numbers Scott Hartnell has put up over the years might be a good indicative of what Virtanen's numbers might look like. Both play the same game. Hard-nosed, physical, goal-scorers. 

 

Pretty spot on post Odd. 

[Sean Monahan]

3 hours ago, Gooseberries said:

Facts are facts. If you don't agree the sky is blue, you're delusional.

Virtanen did all the things I listed in the third with very little if any positives. Go back and watch if you wish. I agree with all your points listed. 

Like I said it's not just about today. He didn't play s good game today, that much I'll concede. But like I said, the same people that love to criticize him refuse to give him any credit when it's due. Like the Sweden fame the other day, hardly a word was said acknowledging the strong game he had. Player of he game wasn't a mistake.

[guntrix]

27 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Like I said it's not just about today. He didn't play s good game today, that much I'll concede. But like I said, the same people that love to criticize him refuse to give him any credit when it's due. Like the Sweden fame the other day, hardly a word was said acknowledging the strong game he had. Player of he game wasn't a mistake.

I consider myself one of his harshest critics and I gave him props. I wouldn't be opposed to giving the kid credit when it's due as long as he deserved it.

The problem is that it was his only standout game in months. Don't give me the whole "he's been good with the Canucks" blab because he really hasn't. 

The Sweden game is an outlier all things considered and you know it's true.