Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Fanuck]

33 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

FWIW Jake's AHL PPG is way better than Horvat's. And Bo seems to have managed to overcome his poor Utica point production.

So things are so bad we're using a whopping 5gms as a legit sample size? 

[hyper00]

8 minutes ago, Toews said:

Your comparison is entirely baseless. This is what I mean by illogical comments made just to pump Jake's tires. Bo was coming off an injury, those were his first pro games of his career and he hadn't played in weeks.

I wanted to say the same thing, but my phone wouldn't let me type lol. 

[Hafizzle]

It's interesting to see how Virtanen brings out such passion in people.  There are some people who are trolling, but the delusional hopeful fans are even worse.  I mean I don't think there's anything wrong in being disappointed with him right now.  Will he ultimately become a bust?  Maybe.  Or maybe it'll take him a few more years and he may be able to put it all together and become an amazing player.  Or perhaps he's destined to be a 3rd or 4th line energy player.  Who knows.  But it's annoying reading all these posts trying so hard to defend him that they're coming up with the craziest arguments.  I'm looking at you guy who compared Jake's AHL points to Bo's points in 5 games coming off an injury.  Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time.

 

I thought Forsberg's post with all the players drafted in Jake's year was quite telling.  It's hard to argue with stats especially when Jake's points per game are by far the lowest even taking defencemen into consideration.  Yes, I get that the goal with Jake was to work on conditioning this year and not necessarily offence but it's still disappointing for a top pick.  I don't think he was the BPA at 6 that year but he had a lot going for him: local boy, playing in the dub, size, speed, hitting and he was safe in that a lot of people compared him to Raffi Torres in that even if he couldn't put it all together he had a good chance of making it to the NHL in a diminished role.

 

I'm not here to troll Jake though.  I don't think he was BPA, but we picked him and I really do hope he can pull it all together.  The kid definitely does have the tools so I don't think anyone can label him as a bust just yet.

[Sweathog]

Hopefully Green got through to him this past season, because I'm really excited to see what a motivated, fit Jake Virtanen can do.

 

This upcoming season (especially this fall) will be really telling on how seriously he takes his career and development, and I think will be a major indicator if he's going to have a successful NHL career or not. Not necessarily his point production right now, but if he can maintain a strong consistent work ethic. IMO Jake's main problem the past two years has been his mindset, and if he can get past that he would have overcome the major hurdle in his development, as he already has the physical tools to succeed in the NHL.

 

 

[Jester13]

3 hours ago, Hafizzle said:

It's interesting to see how Virtanen brings out such passion in people.  There are some people who are trolling, but the delusional hopeful fans are even worse.  I mean I don't think there's anything wrong in being disappointed with him right now.  Will he ultimately become a bust?  Maybe.  Or maybe it'll take him a few more years and he may be able to put it all together and become an amazing player.  Or perhaps he's destined to be a 3rd or 4th line energy player.  Who knows.  But it's annoying reading all these posts trying so hard to defend him that they're coming up with the craziest arguments.  I'm looking at you guy who compared Jake's AHL points to Bo's points in 5 games coming off an injury.  Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time.

 

I thought Forsberg's post with all the players drafted in Jake's year was quite telling.  It's hard to argue with stats especially when Jake's points per game are by far the lowest even taking defencemen into consideration.  Yes, I get that the goal with Jake was to work on conditioning this year and not necessarily offence but it's still disappointing for a top pick.  I don't think he was the BPA at 6 that year but he had a lot going for him: local boy, playing in the dub, size, speed, hitting and he was safe in that a lot of people compared him to Raffi Torres in that even if he couldn't put it all together he had a good chance of making it to the NHL in a diminished role.

 

I'm not here to troll Jake though.  I don't think he was BPA, but we picked him and I really do hope he can pull it all together.  The kid definitely does have the tools so I don't think anyone can label him as a bust just yet.

I dunno, I read that comment as being slightly tongue & cheek. 

 

It seems to me like there are two camps here with Jake: those who look at his points last year and call him a disappointment and those who look at his new-found weight, work ethic and professionalism and call him an improvement.

 

In other words, positive thinking people and negative thinking people. 

 

Welcome to CDC.

 

Go Jake 

[guntrix]

16 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

Good summary. I actually meant look at the scoring leaders in the AHL this season. http://theahl.com/stats/player-stats/all-teams/54?playertype=skater&position=skaters&rookie=no&sort=points&statstype=expanded&page=1&league=4

 

Do you see many players in the 19/20 age bracket in that top group. Only 5 players scored 30+ and the top was 33 in 73 games. It's not an easy league was my point. Young players don't excel, AHL lifers don't tear it up for the most part and even veteran NHL players past their prime don't come into the AHL and destroy the younger competition. 

 

I challenged people to go look for themselves, but next time I'll post the link. As I stated, the AHL isn't some joke league that young draft picks can just step in and start dominating.

 

Too rosy for anyone? Oh look facts with a link. It's more than I've ever seen from that green with envy frog.

You've got to be joking. I consistently use stats to back up my arguments as opposed to homer-filled "he'll eventually put it all together, you're just a hater" posts.

 

Second, we're not comparing Jake to the AHL scoring leaders, we're comparing him to his draft class. You're just moving goalposts at this point. Forget comparing him to forwards- as FTG said, his output is only comparable to Bleackley (a player who got re-drafted in the 5th round of the 2016 draft and is now playing for the Missouri Mavericks of the ECHL), Jake is getting massively outperformed production-wise by the five defenders drafted in 2014: DeAngelo, Sanheim, Honka, Fleury and Ekblad, only one of which was drafted before Jake.

Edited June 3, 2017 by guntrix

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, Jester13 said:

I dunno, I read that comment as being slightly tongue & cheek. 

 

It seems to me like there are two camps here with Jake: those who look at his points last year and call him a disappointment and those who look at his new-found weight, work ethic and professionalism and call him an improvement.

 

In other words, positive thinking people and negative thinking people. 

 

Welcome to CDC.

 

Go Jake 

You read that correctly. I thought that would have been obvious to anyone who wasn't completely braindead. From the outrage among some of the haters I guess it is necessary to put in emojis to allow the more simpleminded of the posters to recognize humour.

[Alflives]

38 minutes ago, guntrix said:

You've got to be joking. I consistently use stats to back up my arguments as opposed to homer-filled "he'll eventually put it all together, you're just a hater" posts.

 

Second, we're not comparing Jake to the AHL scoring leaders, we're comparing him to his draft class. You're just moving goalposts at this point. Forget comparing him to forwards- as FTG said, his output is only comparable to Bleackley (a player who got re-drafted in the 5th round of the 2016 draft and is now playing for the Missouri Mavericks of the ECHL), Jake is getting massively outperformed production-wise by the five defenders drafted in 2014: DeAngelo, Sanheim, Honka, Fleury and Ekblad, only one of which was drafted before Jake.

You are comparing fat out of shape no commitment Jake to other players who are (likely) fit, and seriously professional.  Jake is FOR THE FIRST TIME fit and committed to being a professional.  Now we shall see what we have.  

[ashlynnbrookefan]

10 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

You read that correctly. I thought that would have been obvious to anyone who wasn't completely braindead. From the outrage among some of the haters I guess it is necessary to put in emojis to allow the more simpleminded of the posters to recognize humour.

Maybe certain people just thought you were brain dead? Or simple minded? Usually when someone says FWIW it's them trying to make a point. I took nothing from your initial statement whether serious or sarcastic, I just thought it was a pointless post haha

[ashlynnbrookefan]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You are comparing fat out of shape no commitment Jake to other players who are (likely) fit, and seriously professional.  Jake is FOR THE FIRST TIME fit and committed to being a professional.  Now we shall see what we have.  

In fairness that's all we have to base our judgements on JV to this point. It's not like him finally deciding he's ready to do what every NHLer needs to do to try and carve out a career for themselves is going to make him a decent NHLer, though I hope it does. Now it's the wait and see game

 

[WeneedLumme]

2 minutes ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

Maybe certain people just thought you were brain dead? Or simple minded? Usually when someone says FWIW it's them trying to make a point. I took nothing from your initial statement whether serious or sarcastic, I just thought it was a pointless post haha

I'm sure you did. I will try to remember to put in emojis to help out people like you in the future. For future reference, when someone says FWIW, it generally means that it is not worth very much.

[ashlynnbrookefan]

Just now, WeneedLumme said:

I'm sure you did. I will try to remember to put in emojis to help out people like you in the future. For future reference, when someone says FWIW, it generally means that it is not worth very much.

Haha I took nothing from it, I like your assumption though. FWIW is another way of giving your opinion. Anyone that took what you said seriously isn't because you have a great sense of humour that went over anyone's head, it's because your post shows no sign of sarcasm, it shows opinion. Now you're being funny though, you little crapy comedian you!! But again, a pointless initial post in the first place haha. 

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

In fairness that's all we have to base our judgements on JV to this point. It's not like him finally deciding he's ready to do what every NHLer needs to do to try and carve out a career for themselves is going to make him a decent NHLer, though I hope it does. Now it's the wait and see game

 

Jake's been playing carrying an extra 30 pounds, likely eating poorly, and not being aerobically fit.   That's an extremely poor base to extrapolate from.  Like you say: we need to see now what we have.  

[ashlynnbrookefan]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Jake's been playing carrying an extra 30 pounds, likely eating poorly, and not being aerobically fit.   That's an extremely poor base to extrapolate from.  Like you say: we need to see now what we have.  

I agree that's a contributing factor for sure, but I won't believe he'll be effective until I see he can be effective. You're absolutely right though. 

[Toews]

18 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

You read that correctly. I thought that would have been obvious to anyone who wasn't completely braindead. From the outrage among some of the haters I guess it is necessary to put in emojis to allow the more simpleminded of the posters to recognize humour.

Considering how you are lashing out and being defensive, somehow I doubt it was a "tongue & cheek" comment. More like you made a "braindead" comment and now you are backpedaling hard. Anyone that isn't "simpleminded" should know that sarcasm can often be hard to detect in text unlike speech...

 

Quote

Poe's law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture that states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views.^[1][2][3]

The original statement of the adage, by Nathan Poe, was:^[1]

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

 

With the likes of Rob Zepp and canuckledraggin running around, you should convey sarcasm more effectively.

 

@Jester13 Not to be a grammar police but the correct phrase is "tongue-in-cheek", just for future reference.

[guntrix]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Jake's been playing carrying an extra 30 pounds, likely eating poorly, and not being aerobically fit.   That's an extremely poor base to extrapolate from.  Like you say: we need to see now what we have.  

And who's fault is that? Still not sure why this is an excuse for Jake.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, guntrix said:

And who's fault is that? Still not sure why this is an excuse for Jake.

Jake's being fat, out of shape, and not professional is an excuse for his lack of production.  I agree.  His biggest problem is himself.  I  am a lot more frustrated with JB than Jake.  JB stated he drafts for character, yet his very first pick with us lacks it.

[aGENT]

48 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

You read that correctly. I thought that would have been obvious to anyone who wasn't completely braindead. From the outrage among some of the haters I guess it is necessary to put in emojis to allow the more simpleminded of the posters to recognize humour.

Hence my penchant for emoji use 

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, Toews said:

Considering how you are lashing out and being defensive, somehow I doubt it was a "tongue & cheek" comment. More like you made a "braindead" comment and now you are backpedaling hard. Anyone that isn't "simpleminded" should know that sarcasm can often be hard to detect in text unlike speech...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

 

With the likes of Rob Zepp and canuckledraggin running around, you should convey sarcasm more effectively.

 

@Jester13 Not to be a grammar police but the correct phrase is "tongue-in-cheek", just for future reference.

Thanks for the lesson junior. Feel free to doubt whatever you want. I was poking fun at the clowns who like to make up their minds and state absolutes (about how terrible Jake and other Canucks prospects are) based on small amounts of data taken out of context,  I am not actually stupid enough to believe that a 5 game sample holds much significance, hence the "For What It's Worth". If you thought I am that stupid, you were projecting. 

 

By the way, "not to be a grammar police" is pretty poor grammar. If I were to use bad grammar to correct somebody's grammar, I would be very embarrassed. Are you capable of feeling embarrassment?

[ashlynnbrookefan]

4 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

Thanks for the lesson junior. Feel free to doubt whatever you want. I was poking fun at the clowns who like to make up their minds and state absolutes (about how terrible Jake and other Canucks prospects are) based on small amounts of data taken out of context,  I am not actually stupid enough to believe that a 5 game sample holds much significance, hence the "For What It's Worth". If you thought I am that stupid, you were projecting. 

 

By the way, "not to be a grammar police" is pretty poor grammar. If I were to use bad grammar to correct somebody's grammar, I would be very embarrassed. Are you capable of feeling embarrassment?

You've already lost your end of this debate, keep grasping at straws