Ashton Sautner | D

[Crabcakes]

4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The only thing in trading for Karlsson would be their asking price (Bo,Boeser or EP one of them for sure would be in there) Plus I think we'd be wasting Karlsson or Tavares in their prime years for the next while-- because our team won't be viable for about 2-3 years, for the playoffs (If everything works out).

Yes, I see the high priced marquee player or free agent as a last piece of the puzzle move not one to make at bottom.  Karlsson would set the Canucks back depth wise 2 top 6 roster players (who were 1st round picks) and a 1st besides.  This makes your good point about wasting prime time for EK or JT even longer.

 

I want sustainability this go round.  I don't have the appetite for a shot at the cup (which depends on luck in terms of health during the playoffs) and a rapid fall from competitiveness like happened in 2011 and 2012.  Let's do this rebuild right, through the draft with depth from the top of the organization to the bottom.

[Qwags]

I hope to see Sautner in the Canucks lineup next season. I think our defensive prospects are better than we give them credit for.

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

But if we're better after those 3 years and Karlsson's past his prime, then we've wasted one (or more) of our top prospects for after that point in time. I like Karlsson and mentorship is great and all, but at what cost does it make such a trade infeasible for us in the long run? This is especially the case when you consider a lot of other teams are going to be interested in a player like Karlsson.

 

This is why we don't see a lot of top players get traded unless if it involves another top player in my opinion, because the price becomes so much that it can effectively hamper the development of whatever team is going after that player.

 

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

But if we're better after those 3 years and Karlsson's past his prime, then we've wasted one (or more) of our top prospects for after that point in time. I like Karlsson and mentorship is great and all, but at what cost does it make such a trade infeasible for us in the long run? This is especially the case when you consider a lot of other teams are going to be interested in a player like Karlsson.

 

This is why we don't see a lot of top players get traded unless if it involves another top player in my opinion, because the price becomes so much that it can effectively hamper the development of whatever team is going after that player.

 

41 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Three years sounds about right, if his speed holds up maybe a bit longer.

he is an elite D,.  Something this team has yet to ever see.

it would be impressive to see him work with Stetcher, Joulevi, Mceneny, Sautner, and so on.. 

perhaps even to have him for the single season, then trade to a contender at the end of next season,. Perhaps we gain more . Tanev and Hutton do nothing for us when they are off the sheet.

Edited April 1, 2018 by SilentSam

[JamesB]

On 3/31/2018 at 4:43 PM, Alflives said:

Better player than Hutton?

 

On 3/31/2018 at 4:46 PM, J-23 said:

Too early to compare. He plays much more calm than Pouliot and Hutton on the defensive side of the game.

 

23 hours ago, samurai said:

I think he might be.  Plays a calm poised game in our end.   I will be surprised if Hutton is on this team in the fall.   

 

22 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm all for trading Hutty, but can you imagine the "asset management" nuclear winter if we lost him [Hutton] to waivers ? I'm sure Jim can move him for an extra 2019 pick of some kind. Apparently there was interest from some teams, don't have the link but do recall chatter about it during the TDL coverage. 

With a cap hit of 2.8 million, there is a decent chance Hutton would not be picked up on waivers, especially if he is waived at the beginning of the season when all teams are trying to get down to the roster limit.  I have doubts about whether he would have much trade value and I think his stock has gone down since the TDL.

 

That said, I still think Hutton is potentially a good D and I would not try to trade him. I think he needs to play a more physical game, taking advantage of his size, and I think confidence is a big deal for him. But I think that he and Tanev were a good pairing. With a good summer and a fresh start next year he has a chance to make a significant step forward.

 

LIke everyone else, I like Sautner's game. So far he has played 4 games with the Canucks and the Canucks have won all 4! He is more calm than either Hutton or Pouliot (or MDZ for that matter). He looks like could be a decent 3rd pairing guy in the NHL (or at least 7th or 8th man).

 

The problem is that the Canucks have too many guys who are fine at 5 through 8 on the depth chart but don't have a legitimate #1 guy (although Edler has played very well in the winning streak and would be #2 or #3 on most teams in the league). And they only have two legitimate top 4 D's (Edler and Tanev). If the Canucks are going to contend for a playoff spot next year they need two additional guys who can play like legitimate top 4 D's on a good team.

 

The list of potential guys includes Guddy, MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton, Juolevi, Stecher and Sautner.  Maybe Brisebois or McEneny gets into the equation. The guy on the that list with most upside is Juolevi, but there is a lot of uncertainty about him. No guarantee he even makes the team next year. Hutton has some upside, I think. With the other guys I don't think there is a lot of upside as I think it is pretty much "what you see is what you get".

 

Benning has assembled that group (except for Hutton, who was drafted by Gillis). Next year we should get a good read on how well he did.

Edited April 1, 2018 by JamesB

[samurai]

2 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

 

 

With a cap hit of 2.8 million, there is a decent chance Hutton would not be picked up on waivers, especially if he is waived at the beginning of the season when all teams are trying to get down to the roster limit.  I have doubts about whether he would have much trade value and I think his stock has gone down since the TDL.

 

That said, I still think Hutton is potentially a good D and I would not try to trade him. I think he needs to play a more physical game, taking advantage of his size, and I think confidence is a big deal for him. But I think that he and Tanev were a good pairing. With a good summer and a fresh start next year he has a chance to make a significant step forward.

 

LIke everyone else, I like Sautner's game. So far he has played 4 games with the Canucks and the Canucks have won all 4! He is more calm than either Hutton or Pouliot (or MDZ for that matter). He looks like could be a decent 3rd pairing guy in the NHL (or at least 7th or 8th man).

 

The problem is that the Canucks have too many guys who are fine at 5 through 8 on the depth chart but don't have a legitimate #1 guy (although Edler has played very well in the winning streak and would be #2 or #3 on most teams in the league). And they only have two legitimate top 4 D's (Edler and Tanev). If the Canucks are going to contend for a playoff spot next year they need two additional guys who can play like legitimate top 4 D's on a good team.

 

The list of potential guys includes Guddy, MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton, Juolevi, and Sautner.  Maybe Brisebois gets into the equation. The guy on the that list with most upside is Juolevi, but there is a lot of uncertainty about him. No guarantee he even makes the team next year. Hutton has some upside, I think. With the other guys I don't think there is a lot of upside as I think it is pretty much "what you see is what you get".

 

Benning has assembled that group (except for Hutton, who was drafted by Gillis). Next year we should get a good read on how well he did.

I think Benning and crew will of course take a long look at Hutton this year.  The won't waive him because he has value, but I believe he is in the last year of his contract so he is tradable but not much value.

 

Hutton this year had bad season and last year as well he struggled at times - he finished last season playing well I thought.  The problem with Hutton is he came in as a pucking moving offensive  D and showed that in his first year.  However, this part of his game has dropped.  So what kind of D is he?  Juolevi, Troy and Pouliot  have probably moved past him on the depth chart for puck moving - none of those 3 are locks though.  So as you point out his role has to be the physical game and playing well in our end.   At times during the season Hutton's play in our zone was jaw dropping beer league play. Obviously, Green didnt like it either and to be a regular  scratch in our D core is pretty revealing.

 

The foot issue has really hurt him as well because right now guys are fighting for jobs for next year.  To have Sautner come in and not look out of place (only 4 games) hurts Hutton even more.   

 

 

 

 

 

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

he is an elite D,.  Something this team has yet to ever see.

it would be impressive to see him work with Stetcher, Joulevi, Mceneny, Sautner, and so on.. 

perhaps even to have him for the single season, then trade to a contender at the end of next season,. Perhaps we gain more . Tanev and Hutton do nothing for us when they are off the sheet.

Yes. I realise he has benefits, but Tanev and Hutton are unlikely to get us Karlsson. Highly unlikely in my opinion.....

 

Do you really want to have to give up Petersson or another prospect like that, because most likely that's what it will take.....

 

It's easy to dream of having certain players but, aside from last season, we are talking about one of the best defenders in the league. Tanev could arguably be considered "scraps" in comparison.

Edited April 2, 2018 by The Lock

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

Yes. I realise he has benefits, but Tanev and Hutton are unlikely to get us Karlsson. Highly unlikely in my opinion.....

 

Do you really want to have to give up Petersson or another prospect like that, because most likely that's what it will take.....

 

It's easy to dream of having certain players but, aside from last season, we are talking about one of the best defenders in the league. Tanev could arguably be considered "scraps" in comparison.

Personally, I hope this is the last we see of the draft lottery,. IF it is, that means we’ve crossed the line, and are well on our way into the rebuild.  Considering a 2019 or 2020 draft pick would probably 2-3 years away from possibly making the club perhaps those picks, possibly a first in one year, and a second in another could sweeten the deal...  I just think that Tanev, Hutton, start the conversation...  and let’s not forget..  if Ottawa is seriously looking to Re-build..  they will have to tear down like we have and establish farm depth as well..

but i digress,..  this summer looks to be interesting all round.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Personally, I hope this is the last we see of the draft lottery,. IF it is, that means we’ve crossed the line, and are well on our way into the rebuild.  Considering a 2019 or 2020 draft pick would probably 2-3 years away from possibly making the club perhaps those picks, possibly a first in one year, and a second in another could sweeten the deal...  I just think that Tanev, Hutton, start the conversation...  and let’s not forget..  if Ottawa is seriously looking to Re-build..  they will have to tear down like we have and establish farm depth as well..

but i digress,..  this summer looks to be interesting all round.

I think if Ottawa's looking to rebuild, would Tanev really be their answer at this point? I mean, we're going through a rebuild at the moment and, assuming Ottawa's just starting their rebuild, he'll be maybe 31 or 32 at the earliest, probably older. Perhaps Tanev could be a bandaid for them, but it does make me kind of go "why would they even want him?" to an extent. Perhaps I'm wrong in that, but still.

[SilentSam]

56 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I think if Ottawa's looking to rebuild, would Tanev really be their answer at this point? I mean, we're going through a rebuild at the moment and, assuming Ottawa's just starting their rebuild, he'll be maybe 31 or 32 at the earliest, probably older. Perhaps Tanev could be a bandaid for them, but it does make me kind of go "why would they even want him?" to an extent. Perhaps I'm wrong in that, but still.

It’s a lot of “If’s” I agree Lock

I think they are better to keep Karlsson...   but if he wants to leave or test free agency,  what does one “give up” these days.. or a better question is what is Karlsson worth at the start of the season versus the end of the season...   the league is getting younger, yet Karlsson isn’t THAT old.

i at least hope the inquiry is made into Karlsson.

[khay]

10 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Personally, I hope this is the last we see of the draft lottery,. IF it is, that means we’ve crossed the line, and are well on our way into the rebuild.  Considering a 2019 or 2020 draft pick would probably 2-3 years away from possibly making the club perhaps those picks, possibly a first in one year, and a second in another could sweeten the deal...  I just think that Tanev, Hutton, start the conversation...  and let’s not forget..  if Ottawa is seriously looking to Re-build..  they will have to tear down like we have and establish farm depth as well..

but i digress,..  this summer looks to be interesting all round.

This mentality of trading away picks because they are 2-3 years away from making the club is what put the club in this $hitty position.

 

Imagine if we drafted a single decent NHL player from years 2009-2011, the player from 2009 would have made the club in 2012 to perhaps hold the fort against LA until Danny returns. We could have won the cup that year with probably the easiest road to the cup ever in history of Stanley cup playoffs. The player drafted from 2010 would have helped in 2013 against San Jose. And player from 2011 draft along with 2010, 2009 draft would have helped us to avoid the mid season collapse in 2014 and this would have prevented Kesler from skipping town. And in 2015, those players and Kesler would have helped us get by Calgary with the Sedins playing so well in that year who knows how far we go?  

 

I would love to have Karlsson too but we should stick to the drafting and development. Look at Boston, they get McAvoy and Pastrnak with mid and late first rounders. Karlsson himself was a mid first. Once you establish a good drafting team like we have, the best course of action is to continue to be patient and try to find at least one NHL player every year. And if you keep at it long enough, one of them will turn out as good as McAvoy or Pastrnak and . your team is competitive almost every year.

 

Bo will be 23 in 2018-19 season. Demko and Gaudette 22. Dahlen and Boeser will be 21. Juolevi, Pettersson, and Lind will be 20. Whoever we draft this year will be 18 or 19 by 2018-19 season. We have at least good 10 years with these guys. If we continue to improve the roster through the draft, and insert McAvoy's and Pastrnak's when these core guys are 25 to 30 years of age, I think we will get our chance at the cup and a chance at a prolonged success.

 

The only way we should look to adding a high caliber player is if they are available through UFA (if we have cap space obviously). Trading for them usually involves subtracting from the roster and giving up a high draft pick. Just look at Calgary and Edmonton. They got so excited with McDavid/Drai and Monahan/Gaudreau that they ejaculated way too soon. Oilers/Flames fans were well on their way to orgasm only to be disappointed by their respective management's lack of self-control  

 

Jokes aside, they started trading away their first rounders to expedite their rebuild and how's it looking for them? Who are the three players drafted right at or after Calgary/Edmonton's 15th/16th pick? Barzal, Connor, and Chabot. Imagine Barzal on Calgary playing with Tkachuk. Or Chabot joining Edmonton. 

 

[SilentSam]

5 hours ago, khay said:

This mentality of trading away picks because they are 2-3 years away from making the club is what put the club in this $hitty position.

 

Imagine if we drafted a single decent NHL player from years 2009-2011, the player from 2009 would have made the club in 2012 to perhaps hold the fort against LA until Danny returns. We could have won the cup that year with probably the easiest road to the cup ever in history of Stanley cup playoffs. The player drafted from 2010 would have helped in 2013 against San Jose. And player from 2011 draft along with 2010, 2009 draft would have helped us to avoid the mid season collapse in 2014 and this would have prevented Kesler from skipping town. And in 2015, those players and Kesler would have helped us get by Calgary with the Sedins playing so well in that year who knows how far we go?  

 

I would love to have Karlsson too but we should stick to the drafting and development. Look at Boston, they get McAvoy and Pastrnak with mid and late first rounders. Karlsson himself was a mid first. Once you establish a good drafting team like we have, the best course of action is to continue to be patient and try to find at least one NHL player every year. And if you keep at it long enough, one of them will turn out as good as McAvoy or Pastrnak and . your team is competitive almost every year.

 

Bo will be 23 in 2018-19 season. Demko and Gaudette 22. Dahlen and Boeser will be 21. Juolevi, Pettersson, and Lind will be 20. Whoever we draft this year will be 18 or 19 by 2018-19 season. We have at least good 10 years with these guys. If we continue to improve the roster through the draft, and insert McAvoy's and Pastrnak's when these core guys are 25 to 30 years of age, I think we will get our chance at the cup and a chance at a prolonged success.

 

The only way we should look to adding a high caliber player is if they are available through UFA (if we have cap space obviously). Trading for them usually involves subtracting from the roster and giving up a high draft pick. Just look at Calgary and Edmonton. They got so excited with McDavid/Drai and Monahan/Gaudreau that they ejaculated way too soon. Oilers/Flames fans were well on their way to orgasm only to be disappointed by their respective management's lack of self-control  

 

Jokes aside, they started trading away their first rounders to expedite their rebuild and how's it looking for them? Who are the three players drafted right at or after Calgary/Edmonton's 15th/16th pick? Barzal, Connor, and Chabot. Imagine Barzal on Calgary playing with Tkachuk. Or Chabot joining Edmonton. 

 

Your Boston comments are exactly why a Karlsson would work for us.

WE have no legit no1 D.. never have... Chara has been in Boston how long... and look what he does to give their young D confidence.

We need a mentor, a legit #1 on D.

[Qwags]

Didn't even realize he picked up his 1st NHL point last game. An assist on Archie's goal.

[khay]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Your Boston comments are exactly why a Karlsson would work for us.

WE have no legit no1 D.. never have... Chara has been in Boston how long... and look what he does to give their young D confidence.

We need a mentor, a legit #1 on D.

With an empty cupboard, Chara wouldn't be able to achieve much in Boston. Chara is important but Krug, McAvoy and Carlo and other incoming youths are the reason why they are #1 in the East.

 

If we want to get Karlsson, the minimum price includes two first round picks unless we give up Boeser or Pettersson. That's a no go.

 

[samurai]

20 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Personally, I hope this is the last we see of the draft lottery,. IF it is, that means we’ve crossed the line, and are well on our way into the rebuild.  Considering a 2019 or 2020 draft pick would probably 2-3 years away from possibly making the club perhaps those picks, possibly a first in one year, and a second in another could sweeten the deal...  I just think that Tanev, Hutton, start the conversation...  and let’s not forget..  if Ottawa is seriously looking to Re-build..  they will have to tear down like we have and establish farm depth as well..

but i digress,..  this summer looks to be interesting all round.

We have a few more years of high picks left.  Hard to say when we started rebuilding.  My view was Wille's last year which was 2 years after our last playoff showing.  So we are year 2 of what some pundits think is a 7-10 year project (their rebuild start could be earlier than what i pegged).   But i think we are 3 years away from being a competitive team. there is a long road to go and it will be fun.  

[SilentSam]

22 hours ago, khay said:

With an empty cupboard, Chara wouldn't be able to achieve much in Boston. Chara is important but Krug, McAvoy and Carlo and other incoming youths are the reason why they are #1 in the East.

 

If we want to get Karlsson, the minimum price includes two first round picks unless we give up Boeser or Pettersson. That's a no go.

 

That your opinion, 

..I have mine.

[khay]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

That your opinion, 

..I have mine.

It's a free country and I respect your opinion... just that I don't agree.

[filthycanuck]

On 3/31/2018 at 5:17 PM, samurai said:

I think he might be.  Plays a calm poised game in our end.   I will be surprised if Hutton is on this team in the fall.   

I'd take Sautner over Gudbranson already. Gudbranson is just a warm body playing in he backend, and Sautner has offered more, only less than a quarter of what Gudbranson's salary is.

[samurai]

3 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I'd take Sautner over Gudbranson already. Gudbranson is just a warm body playing in he backend, and Sautner has offered more, only less than a quarter of what Gudbranson's salary is.

The sample size is small but Sautner plays like he’s got years of NHL experience behind him.  He looks very promising for us.  For the tank crowd Sautner was undrafted.  With everything going on his play is flying under the radar.   Stay tuned with him, I think we’ve got something more.

 

 

 

 

[Tre Mac]

Aw man, I was thinking what they were going to do with that puck after the goal was disallowed then they showed the trainer peeling the tape off.  That pretty much sums up the season right there don't you think?

[SilentSam]

21 hours ago, khay said:

It's a free country and I respect your opinion... just that I don't agree.

Likewise my friend.