Changes needed

[Laoag]

I've said it before, it's a rebuild. And it can't be done all at once.

Draft and develop is the way it is done but, it takes 5 years for drafted players to be effective NHLers if they make it.

In the meantime, Benning is trying to continue being competitive and is succeeding after year 1. They made the playoffs. If you were told that the Canucks would make the playoffs last October, half the posters here would have called you nuts. It just bites that they lost to the Flames.

Benning added to team depth on the bottom 6, gave us a legit 1st line and solid goaltending. What we know now is who will be the 2C in the future. Bo Horvat progressed unbelievably well and he became fast. Love those end to end rushes. We haven't seen that since you know who.

I expect some help on D to be added over the summer and some tweaking here and there but I really believe Benning has them on the right track.

Since you know who... haha, love it. i love Bo and i think we will become a future captain, but i feel it would be great for him to stay bottom 6 for next year. makes our team deeper, I wouldn't mind seeing vrbata and bonino go for a legit 2nd line centre and let the young guns fill in the wings.

[higgyfan]

The reason the Canucks lost last night is because they had no push back when the Flames came out hitting hard.

In the new NHL (National Head-injury League) a team needs at least 2 players that can skate fast and hit everything in sight.

Maybe Kennins can be developed into this kind of player (if he can learn not to take penalties) and Virtanen is already one but is probably not quite NHL ready. I don't know about Kassian as he may have to change his game after back surgery.

I hate to see all these threads bashing individual players, but I do agree that changes need to be made. I don't think a massive overhaul needs to happen, but a big adjustment is essential. NTCs may be a real block in moving forward, but I expect that JB will do what has to be done. Regardless, some contracts will be played out next season.

Sedins (can't see them going anywhere) XXX (It's pretty obvious they need a player that can manage the crease -see comment on Kass).

Burr stays -can play on any line and has the biggest heart on this team

Team doesn't really have a 2nd line. XXX

Baerchi (has to play or be traded) Bonino (great contract -could be great trade bait) Vrbata (trade deadline bait)

XXX (LW that can score) Horvat Hansen(has proven his value)

XXX (Big, fast, physical) Richardson (pls re-sign) Dorsett (I think he was injured in the 3rd game of PO)

Edler Tanev

Hamhuis XXX (PMD)

Sbisa (new contract, won't be moved) XXX (big, physical, solid stay at home dman)

Corrado

Lack

Marks (either he can play or he's traded) or Erickson

A huge job for JB to fill in these XXXs and make the trades required (gain cap space or picks/prospects). Would like to see some prospects having opportunities to compete for positions as well. A lot of gaps on this team, so it's not likely going to happen all in one season.

Gotta be patient.

[klw604]

Playoffs you need puck possession defencemens that can make plays to the forwards, look at Kris Russell, TJ Brodie, and Dennis Wideman,

Bieksa, past his prime and with a cap hit of 2.5 million next year he's probably gonna be around to play out his final year of the contract. Great teammate but cant make the plays anymore.

Sbisa, turnover machine, just signed a new contract highly unlikely moved as well. The whole series calgary forced Sbisa to make plays god was he awful

Hamuis, still a solid defender but he needs a real puck moving defender as a partner. Terrible on the power play.

Weber, gets rubbed out along the boards way too often, good depth defender, but shouldn't be anywhere in top 4, I wouldn't resign him.

Edler, the big friendly giant, needs to be packaged as he holds the most value, way to inconsistent and every year has shown he can't handle the playoff pressure.

Tanev, good stay at home defender but needs an offensive dman partner. Don't think we'll ever see a slapper from this kid.

[Shawndy]

Willie D is an awsome coach, you dont know much about hockey do you?

I sure don't agree with him being in love with Vey, McMillan and Bonino

[GODSRAGE]

The rebuild is taking place it just might take a year or two still. I can see them sprinkling in a few more young guys such as Virtanen, McCann or Gaunce into the line up next year along with a few younger guys on the back like Corrado, Clendening or Hutton.

We just have to ride out the bad contracts for now to the aging core. (ie. Bieksa, Higgins, Burrows, Sbisa...)

[klw604]

The reason the Canucks lost last night is because they had no push back when the Flames came out hitting hard.

In the new NHL (National Head-injury League) a team needs at least 2 players that can skate fast and hit everything in sight.

Maybe Kennins can be developed into this kind of player (if he can learn not to take penalties) and Virtanen is already one but is probably not quite NHL ready. I don't know about Kassian as he may have to change his game after back surgery.

I hate to see all these threads bashing individual players, but I do agree that changes need to be made. I don't think a massive overhaul needs to happen, but a big adjustment is essential. NTCs may be a real block in moving forward, but I expect that JB will do what has to be done. Regardless, some contracts will be played out next season.

Sedins (can't see them going anywhere) XXX (It's pretty obvious they need a player that can manage the crease -see comment on Kass).

Burr stays -can play on any line and has the biggest heart on this team

Team doesn't really have a 2nd line. XXX

Baerchi (has to play or be traded) Bonino (great contract -could be great trade bait) Vrbata (trade deadline bait)

XXX (LW that can score) Horvat Hansen(has proven his value)

XXX (Big, fast, physical) Richardson (pls re-sign) Dorsett (I think he was injured in the 3rd game of PO)

Edler Tanev

Hamhuis XXX (PMD)

Sbisa (new contract, won't be moved) XXX (big, physical, solid stay at home dman)

Corrado

Lack

Marks (either he can play or he's traded) or Erickson

A huge job for JB to fill in these XXXs and make the trades required (gain cap space or picks/prospects). Would like to see some prospects having opportunities to compete for positions as well. A lot of gaps on this team, so it's not likely going to happen all in one season.

Gotta be patient.

If the Sedins had a defensemen that can hold the puck and dangle like when we had erhoff, there game would take off, there still effective players !

I don't blame our skill players, which defensemen was able to pass the puck while on stride, never it was always broken plays

Offense is generated from the back end, look at Pittsburgh they have crosby and malkin, but look what happens when letang, erhoff, matta, polouit are all injured !

[Laoag]

I agree with you 16 the other thing I would like to add is the fringe players did not play to expectations; Higgins, Matthias, Dorsett were ineffective and I expected them to "turn it up" during the playoffs and it did not happen. Some of theses players can be replaced by rookies to free up cap space next year. I agree about Weber and Sbisa, I thought they showed potential in the regular season but looked awful in the post season.

Bo sure looks like a young Linden, he will be the Captain on this team soon. I would like to see what he can do with players with offensive talent like Vrbata. I think the Sedin's did OK this post season but they definitely need help from others to lead this team.

Mental toughness is still a major problem. How can you not hold a 3-0 lead? Why would you let up in the playoffs? Maybe we need a true "Energy line" a line that will hit on a consistant basis.

WD made some mistakes but that is to be expected by a rookie NHL coach, most problems still have to lie with the core of this team.

Somehow we lost the effectiveness of rolling 4 lines,who each could put the puck in the net, which is mostly due to so many players who are inconsistant.

Some tinkering still needs to be made and I am confident in the managements ability to make it so.

I would seriously consider giving Horvat a letter for next season. would do wonders for the psychology of the team. We have the veterans in the sedins who have a good relationship with bo. imagine the rookies coming up and seeing Bo with a letter and a great relationship with the captain? it would defiantly give them confidence and make the comfortable. and as we just learned from calgary... confidence can do wonders for a young team.

Sedins did ok? what more could you ask from them? hat tricks in each game? the met expectations for sure. they just need that next wave of players to help them out.

[-DLC-]

Canucks had home ice. Given their actual results over the season, the Canucks had a 60-40 advantage in the series. They lost two games when ahead.

Canucks were outcoached, plain and simple.

Meh, the coach can only do so much and he can't inspire the team if they aren't feeling that from within. I think once a game is getting away from them they get stuck....their response to that needs work. So perhaps that is coaching that comes into play? They play better when they're pressured/behind and having a lead was never a security blanket for them.

It happens...teams battle back in their own barn but the ones with a response to that close it out. That penalty threw them off/was horsecrap and momentum was already shifting, big time. One goal could have stopped the bleeding but it wasn't to be. And, as happens, the floodgates opened and a landslide took place. Felt that before...where it's like an explosion.

I don't have the answers, but do like the young guys and how they play. It's a different mindset and I've said this in the past. They don't have wives/families to distract them or go home to...this is their LIFE. So they invest all their energy into this deal...whereas, guys having kids and doing other things have a Plan B. They go home to another life and carry on as usual.

I do believe younger is better for the most part and that shift is happening. That's not to take anything away from the vets...except that it clearly is a game that wears over time and needs sustained effort and results. Sadly. The Sedins had flashes of brilliance and can still dominate out there..but it's not carried consistently throughout a series and others need to step up when they are being mauled and rendered ineffective. Our team comes in waves and then retreats. Not just them, but they'll take most of the heat (sadly, inappropriately). Which is why I mention them at all, as leaders. Love them and appreciate their talent..but know that window is fast closing on them and feel sad if they don't get rewarded with a cup. Just don't know what to feel/think about it all.

[MadOgre]

Im sick to death of watching Edler bobble the puck or pass it to the other team. This guy will never bring it but is extremely valuable as a trade asset.

Edler for O'reilly I would do it any day of the week!

Sbisa is a work in progress.

I want to see Tanev, Sbisa and maybe Hamuis back.

Everyone else should be traded including even maybe Hamuis. The returns would be enormous for this team moving forward!

Henrick

O'reilly

Bonino

Horvat

Bring up

Corrado

Biega

All of the sudden we have a good working forward group and D-men that aren't coughing up the puck all game long. Edler has to go!

Trade assets

Edler

Bieksa

Hamuis ???

Stanton

Weber has gained value with his performance this year vs years past

Richardson

Higgins ?? I liked very much when he was playing with Horvat but otherwise he should be traded

Kassian ??? Depends on how healthy he will/can be long term and whether or not Virtanen can/does rep[lace him

Miller ? depends on Lack and the amount of return. $6M can get a lot in free agency as well though

At this point its all about getting return for guys who aren't working out or are on the downside of their prime.

Theres probably a few more than I have mentioned but we have lots of assets to flip and turn this ship around with.

[aqua59]

I am going off an emotional feeling right now, but i believe things need still to change. A 3-0 lead and a 4-3 lead and they can't even get into overtime with the flames on a do or die game. In my mind something has to come from leadership(the captain, the coach, the president, or even the General Manager). You can clearly see the canucks stop skating and get out worked when they had a 3-0 lead... Henrik Sedin in an interview just said we didn't play to our standards... what the hell why why not in a do or die game... The twins for the most part all the time actually play a peripheral game and always no one is in front of the net. Our team is old and can't skate anymore... Defense is horrible just horrible. Willie D should of realized that our back end is weak and shortened the bench... I know changes won't come easy... they have to ride out contracts develop some more young talent... but for the love of god someone please recognize the canucks tendencies... I can't give flames credit for what they did because our team stopped trying.. Should Willie make a change in goal when the flames tied it 3-3? why didn't he. How the hell did we lose that game... same reason we have players that can't work or management that spots that...

On Defense

Sbisa- needs to go. way too many turnovers and the ducks probably knew that about him.

Bieska- old and is fading away... need to ride out his contract.

weber- way to slow... good shot but clearly not fast enough.

Edler- too many slashing penalties... weak shots no offense from him

hamius- still good

tanev- still good

twins aren't top players anymore.. they are on a decline and should be be on the second line... we need top players on our first line....

never seems to be any urgency with the team on rushes... certain style is so lame ... need players that can crash the net more...

vrbata or bonino ok as regular season guys.. but playoffs.. not that great

bo horvat... stud... what a stud.. reminds me of a young trevor linden.

miller and lack... didn't matter who was in net the team just stopped playing... both are good goalies.

anyways... done venting.. some changes have to made... can't sit back and be happy with this result... its shameful. many fans have faded away from the 2011 cup run... same old stuff we tried we just couldn't do it....

cheers ! can't wait till draft day.

I have to agree with a lot of what you state. However in the big picture it was the goal of this franchise to make the play offs. They did that and quite frankly I didn't think they could pull it off at the beginning with the line up they floated.

Mike Gillis' NTC come to mind first. Benning can only do so much with those. If the players say no way that's the way it is. How ever in the big picture Benning has stuck to his guns as has Linden. It's called foundational stability.

Management watched the same team we did all season and the playoffs. They know better than us what they have.

I think it's easy to state now more than ever that this group as Tort's stated is stale. Yet those stale players are the ones handing off the torch to the young guys coming up, which there seems to be a nice wave on the way.

There's lots of upside in this too. People look at what Vancouver has and forget about trades and free agent signings. Benning has lots of wiggle room in his option pile.

I'm kind of wondering what people expected?

There's no way this team was going deep. To think this is an embarrassing loss how would things look against the Ducks in the next round?

I think as a collective fan base we need to keep perspective. Of course we're disappointed. Over all Vancouver fans are pretty knowledgeable and what we watched was about all this team had to give.

I can say more than once during the regular season this team needed a heart transplant. They lacked jam. \

When you have players like Hansen and Higgins playing on lines higher than they were brought in to play you're gonna get these results.

Bieksa has lost more than a step. Weber is just too small. It goes on.....the lack of size...

I personally believe there will be more changes, more youth and size.

[khay]

It is a young guys league, Benning needs to decide who out of the veterans are useful and move on from the rest.

Flames didn't even have their Norris candidate defenceman.

At the minimum they need two tough minded/hard nosed defencemen, a strong defensive center who can win draws, and a versatile winger who can create havoc and contribute offensively.

They also need a new leadership voice...overall, it is decent but something is missing from this group.

Love these guys but the Canucks need to trade Burrows, Bieksa, and Sbisa.

Danny - Hank - Kassian

Virtanen/Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata

Higgins - Bonino - xxx

Dorsett - xxx - Hansen/Kenins

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - xxx

xxx - Corrado

I think a gritty center that can be deployed only for shutdown purposes is missing. Horvat is that but I don't like the idea of directing his ceiling towards being a shutdown center; I want him to grow like Toewes and Bergeron with equal offensive assignments as there is defensive assignments.

It was a rookie mistake to go into Calgary without a shutdown line against Gaudreau line. Hartley formed his shutdown line and they minimized the damage, especially in Vancouver, the Sedins would have potted 2, 3 goals per game and we would've won this 4-1 if not for their shutdown line.

Unfortunately, I don't think that shutdown line will be effective against Getzlaf line and I think Kesler will be able to shutdown Gaudreau line. I think Ducks will either sweep this or win this 4-1. They are at a different level from Vancouver and Calgary.

I think we need to decide soon whether Bonino is to be used for more offensive roles or defensive roles. If for defensive roles, then get him some quality wingers that can play defence with some tenacity. Example would be Higgins and Burrows of young and Hansen. Putting Bonino out for defensive assignments only to have Vrbata on his wing was just plain stupid and waste of Vrbata's talents.

Of course, defence is also missing some pieces but there is really nothing much that can be done (without knowing who is available as a trade target). Insert some youths on D, Corrado and Clendening are next in line and both of these guys are decent to good skaters with ability to make good passes. One thing that they are not is the crease clearing defender. This, we need to get from outside via trade/UFA (unless Pedan is ready, which I don't think is the case).

I've edited the lineup above a bit:

Danny - Hank - Kassian

Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata

xxx - Bonino - Hansen

Kenins - xxx - Dorsett

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Clendening

Sbisa - UFA/Trade for crease clearing defenceman

Corrado

Decide on what to do with Higgins, Burrows, and Bieksa's.

-Hamhuis-Clendening pairing allows Hamhuis to focus on what he is good at: stay at home defence. Let Clendening go join on the rushes.

-Sbisa just signed a contract so unless he is traded, he will make the team with 0 doubt. He needs a stable defensive partner that will allow him to join in on the attack, and cover for his mistakes when he turns the puck over.

Corrado is an option to slot in if we are not able to find one at the start of the season.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Higgins has to go, he is just horrible offensively.

But our D is just garbage:

Sbisa: When we aquired him the scouting report was he plays a physical game, but he makes a lot of mental mistakes doesn't have that hockey sense sometimes and I think we saw enough of those mistakes.

Hamhuis: For someone who's a BC boy he sure isn't tough pretty sad, this whole season he's been a non factor on the blue line, worst I've ever seen him play ever. There is the possibility he's been playing through injury it's the only excuse I can imagine for how bad he has been this year, if he isn't even worse, but he needs to be traded.

Edler: Did have a better season then last year, but how bad it was last year I don't know how worse it could of got, still if it wasn't for Tanev he would of looked a lot worse this year then anyone really noticed. Doesn't seem to use his body as much as he used to, doesn't use his slap shot as much as he used to, becoming a non factor on the blue line. Game #1 in playoffs was probably his best game of the whole season, but after that slowly went back to being a non factor.

Bieksa: Probably the worst I've ever seen him play in his career in this years playoffs, you can see he is really slowing down, still hard to say good bye to one of the most consitent players to stand up for teammates, but for what he's being paid btw thanks Gillis with that stupid contract, may be time to part ways.

Weber: I like this guy he's young he's got a great hard shot, but he's small doesn't have that height that is needed on the back end, which may hurt him in his future, great 3rd pairing type player for now.

Tanev: Probably the really only good thing to talk about on our D, this guy is a keeper for a long time, I don't care if he doesn't score offensively it's everything else he does that is just perfect. Not one bad thing to say about him, he is the only lock on D to stay.

[Trebreh]

D.Sedin - H.Sedin - Vrbata

Beartschi - Bonino - Virtanen

Shinkaruk - Horvat - Kassian

Burrows - FA Signing - Hansen

Edler - Tanev

Corrado - Clendening

Stanton - Sbisa

Matthias and Richardson, Weber off to free agency, Higgins, Hamhuis, Bieksa for anything! Insert the youth movement and just roll the dice. I honestly dont know why this franchise is afraid to play the youngsters... like Patterson said last night, its a young mans game... lots of bold and tough decisions need to be made this or there will be more empty seats next season.

[CroSen]

In terms of WD, I think overall he did a great job. That being said, there were some head scratching decisions he made in the playoffs. The problem with him, it seems, as it was with Torterella, is stubborness. Both seem to take the route of "my approach usually works so I am not going to be flexible." Unfortunately, flexibility is what is needed sometimes. I like WD better than Torterella, however I think to use the expression I read someone else use on this site, "Lindening" should take WD away for a weekend and talk to him in a supportive way about being more flexible.

[Baggins]

Cody Franson is set to become a UFA and after a pretty average end to the season by Nashville, they may well let him go. Sign him for a 2 year, 5M deal and get rid of some of our rubbish cap waste to fit him in.

Unless Franson really, really wants to come here he'll looking at 5/6 years deals for 7 to 8 mill on the open market. No way he signs here for 5m and two years.

[-DLC-]

The changes are already happening. Everyone needs to step back at look at how long a re-tool actually takes.

Patience.

You've been a voice of reason for me lately...I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you post.

I think that some get caught up the immediate gratification and expectation in it all. I want it NOW. It does take time and patience and I think we're heading in the right direction.

[bluesman60]

I agree that changes have to be made. Horvat should be the 2nd line centre next year with Vrbata on his wing.

We have been weak in the faceoff circle all year (with the exception of Horvat) but did pretty decent in the Calgary series.

Would I resign Matthais and Richardson...no.

Bonino should be moved to the 3rd or 4th line. He hasn't been that good on faceoffs and in a lot of games he was invisible.

Vey....what has he done that says he should be resigned?

Richardson....someone has to go to make way for the young guns. Let him walk.

Higgins....mixed bag but I would trade him for a prospect and 2nd rounder or a 1st if the deal was there.

Goal....is it time to move Lack now that his value has gone up. Could we get a quality dman for him?

Defense in need of a serious upgrade. As much as I like Bieksa, it might be time to move him. He should return a quality prospect and a pick. Even a guy like Hamhuis should be available for the right deal.

Like it or not, after getting bounced twice in the 1st round and once not making the playoffs at all, this team is closer to a rebuild than a retool. There have got to be some unpopular decisions made when it comes to moving vets but it is necessary. There are prospects that should be knocking on the door next year and some that have to be given a shot to see what we have. To anyone that still claims that the team should be okay and we just got some unlucky bounces, take off the rose coloured glassed and look at the results.

[Canuckid1990]

Players that I would like to see be moved are

Hansen- im fine with keeping Hansen if he stays on the 4th line! Stop trying to put him with the sedins! 3 coaches have now tried this it isn't going to work! But for 2.5 mil would rather someone else in the line up

Dorrset- to much money for a guy who can't hit, he won't be traded considering he just resigned but I wouldn't mind him being traded

Miller- was against this signing from the beginning 6 mil for a goalie who's best years were 5 years ago, were supposed to be in a rebuild it should have been lack and markstrom from the start and something tells me we're going to make another mistake and get rid of lack

Hamuis- I like hamuis but he his play is slowly dropping and would rather get something for him while he still has value

Weber- just horrible how he has been on the team this long is just brutal he's a liability on the ice had way to many turnovers and he can't play D simple as that

I'm pretty sure all these players will be back next year and I will still cheer for them but these are the players that I would like to be moved the players who are probs going to be moved are lack mathies and Richardson and that's it can't see them moving anyone else maybe Higgins but they seem to really like him so don't really see that happening

[panelguy]

I do have confidence in the Canuck management to make changes where possible .

[billabong]

when you 3 wins in 3 playoff series since 2011 and you get man handled by youth and size then its never been more apparent that this team needs core changes. our leadership is questionable with how fragile this team is on the road in the playoffs.

bennnings to do list:

1. gotta trade higgins and/or burrows and be replaced with youth(personally id rather see burrows go)

2. find hamhuis a full time nhl caliber d partner

3. trade trade one of our 3 goalies for a sure thing return, gotta make it count

4. trade vey, he isnt a centre and doesnt gel with this team

5. find a right handed shot 4 line center who can win draws. horvat cant do it all himself (hint santorelli)

sedin-sedin-kassian

baertschi-horvat-vrbata

dorsett-bonino-virtanen

higgins-xxxxxx-hansen

kenins

edler-tanev

hamhuis-xxxx

sbisa-bieksa

stanton-corrado

clendening