Provost Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I see the folks are starting to crawl out from under their rocks again insisting our only way for success is to tank. Here are a few comments and facts.1. Players don't like to lose... players certainly won't come and play for a team that is "trying" to lose unless you dramatically overpay.2. You don't just have to lose, you have to also get lucky in the lottery AND lose quite a few years in order to pick up a single elite level player rather than the many lottery picks that turn out "just good" or "ok"3. In the cap era, players get offered similar money form different teams. They prefer to go to winning teams and will take discounts to do so. To convince them to go to a losing team you have to overpay dramatically. Having a bunch of bloated contracts more than counteracts the positive effect of having a couple good young players.4. You have to somehow manage to lose really badly, luck out with a generational player, and then get really good really quickly... otherwise you start losing or overpaying your young guys as their cheap 3 year ELC's expire.5. History shows that most teams that have been at the bottom of the league in recent history stay there no matter how many top picks they get. It is a revolving door of suck.Here is some hard data for the "lets tank our way to success" crowd. These numbers don't even account for top picks that were already playing on these teams from before their current futility streaks, nor does it count draft picks that were traded away or down for additional assets to help them get over the hump.New York Islanders haven't won a playoff series in 21 years despite having 12 top 5 picks in that periodFlorida haven't won a playoff series in 18 years despite having 7 top 5 picks in that periodJets/Thrashers haven't won a playoff series in 15 years (since inception) despite having 8 top 5 picks in that periodColumbus haven't won a playoff series in 14 years (since inception) despite having 5 top 5 picks in that periodEdmonton haven't won a playoff series in 9 seasons despite having 5 top 5 picks in that periodBottom 5 teams in terms of success in recent history and all have had plenty of times at bat in the lottery and it didn't help them win a single playoff series... never mind actually going deep and getting a sniff at a Cup.I didn't include Toronto because even though they haven't won a playoff series in 10 years, they also had a habit of trading away all their 1st round picks so they sucked pretty much all around.So... there is your guaranteed path to success folks. Do your best to lose and stock the cupboards via high draft picks and in reality be a loser for a very long time with no end of losing in sight.The same fans who are insisting on a complete teardown are freaking out when we lose a couple games... I can hardly imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if we were in the midst of a 21 year playoff futility drought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did we really need another thread to try and convince people who won't read it about why we won't full on tank? The don't care about your direct replies in the other threads where they suggest it, why would this thread change their minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Outstanding post. Smart drafting and good player development leads to championships more often than lottery picks do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Anybody who supports intentionally tanking is simply not a fan of sports. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Outstanding post. Smart drafting and good player development leads to championships more often than lottery picks do. I'll point out right now I'm not making a negative remark at all about the quality of the OP, but rather it's effectiveness to talk sense into the folks who "are starting to crawl out from under their rocks again insisting our only way for success is to tank." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I like how point 1 is the same as point 3 and point 2 is the same as one of the 2 point fours.Very succinct. and at this point we don't even need to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 1. The New York Islanders have had horrendous management (Milbury ring a bell?) for a long time now. If they kept their prospects around, they would have had a phenomenal team in the 2000's.2. Florida was a small-market team.3. Thrashers were a small-market team that was horribly run. The Jets have a great young core that have a ton of potential and are looking great moving forward.4. Blue Jackets were a small-market team that had horrible drafting and management.5. Oilers have had horrible management (old boys club ring a bell?). They also seem to draft the same type of players across the board, which has led to a severe lack of success. So now let's look at the positive bottom-dwellers over the past 6-7 years.Chicago- 3 Stanley Cups (2010, 2013, 2015)Los Angeles- 2 Stanley Cups (2012, 2014)Pittsburgh- 1 Stanley Cup (2009)From 2009 on, every team that has won a cup except Boston was a bottom-dweller for much of the 2000's. Tanking isn't a guaranteed mode to success, but if you have solid management, and are in a decent-sized market, along with good scouting, you have a really good shot at becoming successful in this way. Staying mediocre is what screws you over. I think the biggest question is, how many mediocre teams have gone on to win the cup through excellent scouting over the past 6-7 years? Boston may be the only example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Somewhat interesting info on tanking. But why do you care what direction some people want the team to go in? Let them think what they want. It's no secret that we are going to remain competitive while " rebuilding". Manegment has said so and done everything to indicate so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I dont have a problem with the 'pro tankers'...I am not one,...but I do recognize that everybody has their own belief on how to make the Canucks a cup contending team again.The whole 'Lets pick first for two years and plan the parade route' is a complete fallacy..IMO....I think it takes excelling at all facets ..drafting,development,trading,winning environment etc...to make a champion.That being said,the Edmonton Oilers will probably win the SC in 3-4 years.....a reward for 10 years of managerial ineptitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzy Desjardins Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I dont have a problem with the 'pro tankers'...I am not one,...but I do recognize that everybody has their own belief on how to make the Canucks a cup contending team again.The whole 'Lets pick first for two years and plan the parade route' is a complete fallacy..IMO....I think it takes excelling at all facets ..drafting,development,trading,winning environment etc...to make a champion.That being said,the Edmonton Oilers will probably win the SC in 3-4 years.....a reward for 10 years of managerial ineptitude.bahahahhahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 That being said,the Edmonton Oilers will probably win the SC in 3-4 years.....a reward for 10 years of managerial ineptitude.Weren't they supposed to be a playoff team like... I dunno.... 2-3 years ago? That being said, they at least have Chiarelli now, but I doubt they'll be getting the SC in 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did we really need another thread to try and convince people who won't read it about why we won't full on tank? The don't care about your direct replies in the other threads where they suggest it, why would this thread change their minds?It couldn't hurt could it?I'm anti-tank, but if we struggle with losses as youth are shown the ropes and take the reigns over from the vets in an accelerated fashion then it's a fair trade in my opinion. Personally speaking, I'm not interested in 20W-65L seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Sparkle Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Weren't they supposed to be a playoff team like... I dunno.... 2-3 years ago? That being said, they at least have Chiarelli now, but I doubt they'll be getting the SC in 3-4 years.the oilers arent winning the cup ever again until we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So now let's look at the positive bottom-dwellers over the past 6-7 years.Chicago- 3 Stanley Cups (2010, 2013, 2015)Los Angeles- 2 Stanley Cups (2012, 2014)Pittsburgh- 1 Stanley Cup (2009)From 2009 on, every team that has won a cup except Boston was a bottom-dweller for much of the 2000's. Tanking isn't a guaranteed mode to success, but if you have solid management, and are in a decent-sized market, along with good scouting, you have a really good shot at becoming successful in this way. Staying mediocre is what screws you over. I think the biggest question is, how many mediocre teams have gone on to win the cup through excellent scouting over the past 6-7 years? Boston may be the only example. So, to be clear, 2 different teams that were bottom dwellers in the 2000's have won the Stanley since 09'?2 teams have succeeded with that formula... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo.Horvat53 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I like this post and agree with pretty much everything. Only problem is, once we lose again, the same people will crawl out again. Once we win, they will be quite. But surely enough they will be back once we lose again. I for one, do not care about those people. I just enjoy watching the Canucks every game, and I hope to god they don't ever go full tank mode. I can't imagine how much that would suck. I still believe that we have a chance to win. People forget that the lineups on paper do not win you Stanley Cup's. You actually have to play the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 But what if we get McDavid or Eichel! Oh wait is it still the Torts year? Are we picking 6th overall? We should take Nylander... Alexander, wait no that's this year...Uhhh all I know is Eichel looks good in Buffalo, but Buffalo doesn't look good in Eichel. Wait that sounds real bad, just take it as He looks good on the ice, but would probably be better not in Buffalo. That's what I was trying to say.Anyways the moral of the story is tanking turns you into a Buffalo and I'm not into Buffalos.#SwipeLeft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 the oilers arent winning the cup ever again until we do "Cause STONE COLD Said So"Queue the beers, and that's a wrap. Good job everybody. OH WAIT ITS THE PEOPLES ELBROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Elbow + Eyebrow = ELBROW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I think the biggest question is, how many mediocre teams have gone on to win the cup through excellent scouting over the past 6-7 years? Boston may be the only example. I'd like to point out that LA never actually tanked. They were just bad enough for a while to be able to get a 2nd overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did we really need another thread to try and convince people who won't read it about why we won't full on tank? The don't care about your direct replies in the other threads where they suggest it, why would this thread change their minds?Yes, we did. Bring back the minus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 New York Islanders haven't won a playoff series in 21 years despite having 12 top 5 picks in that periodFlorida haven't won a playoff series in 18 years despite having 7 top 5 picks in that periodJets/Thrashers haven't won a playoff series in 15 years (since inception) despite having 8 top 5 picks in that periodColumbus haven't won a playoff series in 14 years (since inception) despite having 5 top 5 picks in that periodEdmonton haven't won a playoff series in 9 seasons despite having 5 top 5 picks in that period nice work.worth a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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