coolboarder Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 57 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: I don't disagree with the general tone of your post. I do disagree with your assessment of Edler. Or at least buying into hype on Edler? Edler to me is the perfect example of why we should draft, semi routinely, defenseman at least in proportion to forwards in early rounds. I think we achieved a near perfect development curve with Edler. He has rounded out into an absolutely solid overall defenseman. He offers strength in board battles, decent mobility, a rocket of a shot, punishes guys occasionally with hits, good overall positional play, above average puck skills...Sure he had / has his limitations. Torterella mis-using him, bad back at times. He was a 91st overall pick. And one of the best invested picks we have ever had. He shot past 1st rounder Bourdon his first training camp, made the team sooner and was always going to be the better player? Considering he has been an all star, and fundamentally our best, or 2knd best defenseman for the better part of 10 years. Debatably, only behind Lou and the Twins as our best performer over that period? He should be viewed as a success! of development! The problem was when a mania set in, and people projected him to be a Lidstrom. I have a news flash; as much as he is a mobile D for his large frame, he never, ever, had the explosive quickness and elite speed of Lidstrom. Nor the endurance, a factor which helps make the Twins elite. Or the pure raw strength and power of the Weber / Pronger type rough and tumble D. Without possessing elite athleticism, there was never any reason to think he would become a Norris candidate. Blanket fact, players who have each of a significant body highly competitive success, elite skills and elite athleticism nearly always go top 5. And yet elite players still surface picked later in the draft. Subban and Chara had not grown in to their bodies yet. So to an extent drafting teams got at least a fair bit lucky. Weber is a great example of scouting. He had only a handful of junior goals in limited minutes. But his raw athleticism, power and shot were recognized. And developed. He was picked later because he had no resume of existing dominating performances. As a general rule though the elite player will not surface, regardless of draft pedigree, unless there is evidence of said elite skills and athleticism. And therein lies the underlying fundamental of draft steals. And we can see Benning pulling strings. Guys like McCann, even Zhukenov have upper echelons of speed, quickness and puck skills. Brisbois looks like he could be another Edler? Of course if Zhuk gets in the gym and ends up with shoulders & thighs like Pavel Bure (they do have a similar frame) his odds get better. And when a guy in his draft year, even if a slight level down in athleticism, is already training like a demon (say Horvat) there is also evidence they can make the jump to being elite? And its important not to underestimate the value of compete level. See Horvat again. In fact its critical to take note as superb athleticism can be wasted without it. But it is still hard to project the average athlete, say Cassels (I argued this this past summer btw, when everyone was on his bandwagon) as being better than McCann who simply has three extra gears? A bigger, faster, stronger athlete is virtually always a handful for a guy with more skills that does not have it. In reality development is putting the missing parts of a guys fundamentals into their game. Enhancing their raw strengths. And there is still nothing wrong with drafting a guy, preferably in the 2knd to 4th round, who has fundamentally sound skills and good but not great athletic ability. Gaunce comes to mind. Then pencilling them in to hopefully be, well, Alex Edler? I agree with you, Edler has been a success considering the way he had been drafted in mid-round. However, when he was hyped early in his career comparing him to Lidstrom, it led to many people a false hope in which I did not like. Let him develop as it was back in early years. Let it be hyped accordingly, not hype by comparing players like Lidstrom. They are two different skill set and different mindset. I'd rather to have 6 Edlers on the team rather than one #1 defenceman and 5 AHL caliber defence if you ask me. It is not do or die with top 5 pick in this year draft. Every player in the draft has a potential to be a superstar, from first overall pick to 7th round pick. Even an undrafted player could potential to be a superstar with few examples. However the odd of having a superstar in making is slim in any draft year, see 1999 season as an example. Not everybody will pan out, even from the first overall pick or a top 5 pick. This is the reason why we should not ever tank for any reason because any scout thinking will be a strong draft year will end up into a flop drafting class. While all of our prospects do have potential, we must continue to develop them even though it does not look great. Even if they are not ready to step up, we continue on course and one day, a few of them blossom into a great player in this league. This is good reason why we have Benning on board is to build a team for the future while keeping competitive is a challenge. Benning has not been afraid to admit that he has been wrong and make moves accordingly while other GM has their own ego would keep the player on their roster so that he might look good. He is not here to make himself look good, he is here to make this team better through trial and error and cut cord to any under-performing players. I take development a priority than a top 5 pick in a draft year. If I were a prophet and the GM of the Canucks, and if I knew that the first round will be a flop, I would offer my lottery first round pick to trade for someone that will help us win the cup than the first round pick ever will, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger. People will cry to have me fired the moment I pull a trigger anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Miller and Vrbata to the Ducks for there first , second and a prospect...and then watch the Ducks dive...we end up with a top 3 pick in the first and second rounds plus our own hopefully top 6 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 If Benning shows his cards to the media ( not too much in this interview but others) , I wonder if he does the same during his phone calls. Always been a fan of his , but wonder if he's to honest and nice to be playing the trade market the way others can? Sucks that it's the truth , but more often then not , it's the shrewd businessmen that tend to be the most successful, not the nicest one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiffyPB Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: Miller and Vrbata to the Ducks for there first , second and a prospect...and then watch the Ducks dive...we end up with a top 3 pick in the first and second rounds plus our own hopefully top 6 pick. Ducks don't want Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackers Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 hours ago, coastal1 said: Amazing to me how many fans are rooting for this team to lose. Anyone of you supporters of the 'tank' going to pay the big bucks to buy tickets to any game this year and watch the team lose? Anyone? Or are you going to all stay home for the next 5 years while the new guys develop? Nope I'll continue to watch the games on TV and enjoy seeing our young guys develop. I wasn't about the tank mentality until very recently, but the way this season is going, I changed my mind. The sad reality is, despite being better than it has in a very long time, our prospect pool is still one of the worst in the league. I love watching the Canucks, and I hate watching them lose, but it would simply be more beneficial in the long run to suffer for a couple seasons. What's the point of making the playoffs simply because we're in a horrible division? The only argument you could bring up is to give our current young guys some playoff experience, which is a decent one, but I would argue that acquiring some true top end prospects is more important. Using Edmonton as an example of how losing doesn't work is silly because they are the exception, not the rule. Look at the past few Stanley cup winners They all had recent top 5 draft picks to help them win. LA had Doughty, Chicago had Toews and Kane, Boston had Seguin (granted he did next to nothing that year in the playoffs). Also, what makes us different from the Oilers is that the Sedins aren't going anywhere until they retire. The oilers top picks never had anyone near the calibre of the twins to teach them how to be good in the nhl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Lockhart said: McCann is going to put on so much muscle with a whole 2 weeks in the weight room (sarcasm for those who can't tell) Are you an elite strength and conditioning coach? If not you should save these kind of "outside your area of expertise negative comments" to the flaming fans ;p. Lots can be done in a two week training regiment. It's setting the framework for a longer term plan. Ugh. Everybody is an expert here lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Would you guys trade McCann for RNH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedinMadness Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I like them finally taking to approach to the future. Its about time. I think hammer will be back. I will be surprised if he goes. unfortunately they will have ride contracts out to move the vets. Burrows and Edler will stay as long as they can. how much movement depends on their position near the trade deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Hugor Hill said: McCann should spend the whole year lifting heavy weight and eating 300 grams of protein every day to reach Super Saiyan status. Maybe if he works out at 100x Earth's gravity. Sorry, let my inner nerd come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Well, if the goal really is to make the playoffs, just go out and give 150%, 200% effort! Leave it all on the ice each and every shift. That last thing I want to see is a series of weak, half-hearted line changes that cost us games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatedkid666 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Too hyped for the final stretch. Should be a blast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelar Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 32 minutes ago, xereau said: Would you guys trade McCann for RNH? No. He's fragile as F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Lockhart said: McCann is going to put on so much muscle with a whole 2 weeks in the weight room (sarcasm for those who can't tell) you can put 5 pounds of muscle on in 2 weeks which helps depending on diet and everything regardless he will be in better shape cant hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 54 minutes ago, Mrbigyellowbus said: Nope I'll continue to watch the games on TV and enjoy seeing our young guys develop. I wasn't about the tank mentality until very recently, but the way this season is going, I changed my mind. The sad reality is, despite being better than it has in a very long time, our prospect pool is still one of the worst in the league. I love watching the Canucks, and I hate watching them lose, but it would simply be more beneficial in the long run to suffer for a couple seasons. What's the point of making the playoffs simply because we're in a horrible division? The only argument you could bring up is to give our current young guys some playoff experience, which is a decent one, but I would argue that acquiring some true top end prospects is more important. Using Edmonton as an example of how losing doesn't work is silly because they are the exception, not the rule. Look at the past few Stanley cup winners They all had recent top 5 draft picks to help them win. LA had Doughty, Chicago had Toews and Kane, Boston had Seguin (granted he did next to nothing that year in the playoffs). Also, what makes us different from the Oilers is that the Sedins aren't going anywhere until they retire. The oilers top picks never had anyone near the calibre of the twins to teach them how to be good in the nhl. Good for you that you will still watch on TV. But I am moslty interested in the fans that pay to watch the games. Are those very key fans so keen on a tank?? You know where I a going with this. Will ownership accept crowds of 7- 8,000 for a few seasons so that there is a chance of success--- because of course tanking for a few years does NOT guarantee success, it sure can help but there is zero guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erkayloomeh Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, TOMapleLaughs said: If we do lose Hamhuis, either at the deadline or in the summer, I would not be shocked if a trade for a proven defensive defenseman does take place. It really depends on whether they are sold on one of Sbisa, Biega, Bartkowski, Hutton to take the reigns. But even then we're talking a #3 or #4 guy to come in instead of just letting one of these guys step up. A lot of uncertainty there, but it is a rebuild. I really do welcome the drafting and developing of a #1 though. Fingers-crossed. What are we going to have to give up if we trade for a proven dman? I'd rather sign one as a free agent even if we overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Completely agree. Canucks will need to trade for a proven D-man for next year if we lose hamhuis. free agency, european pros, the draft theres other options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 minute ago, erkayloomeh said: What are we going to have to give up if we trade for a proven dman? I'd rather sign one as a free agent even if we overpay. I would gladly overpay in free agency for a top 1-2 D. It's just money. No prospects given up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 54 minutes ago, Mrbigyellowbus said: Nope I'll continue to watch the games on TV and enjoy seeing our young guys develop. I wasn't about the tank mentality until very recently, but the way this season is going, I changed my mind. The sad reality is, despite being better than it has in a very long time, our prospect pool is still one of the worst in the league. I love watching the Canucks, and I hate watching them lose, but it would simply be more beneficial in the long run to suffer for a couple seasons. What's the point of making the playoffs simply because we're in a horrible division? The only argument you could bring up is to give our current young guys some playoff experience, which is a decent one, but I would argue that acquiring some true top end prospects is more important. Using Edmonton as an example of how losing doesn't work is silly because they are the exception, not the rule. Look at the past few Stanley cup winners They all had recent top 5 draft picks to help them win. LA had Doughty, Chicago had Toews and Kane, Boston had Seguin (granted he did next to nothing that year in the playoffs). Also, what makes us different from the Oilers is that the Sedins aren't going anywhere until they retire. The oilers top picks never had anyone near the calibre of the twins to teach them how to be good in the nhl. So you say that Edmonton is an exception and then you name a couple of exceptions yourself. What really should be looked at is the other teams who are not at either ends of the spectrum. The Florida's,Columbuses,Colorados,Buffalos,Minnesotas,St.Louis's,Washintons etc. etc. etc. Your like saying you need a hockey player to win a stanley cup. Well Duh!!! Makes no sense. Finishing last or near last GUARANTEES YOU NOTHING.It only affords you a BETTER chance of accumulating ONE unproven prospect. So throwing away 22-23 of your other proven NHLers for this guy makes absolutely no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, steviewonder20 said: Dreaming of 3 first round picks this year. That's the definition of a dream-- removed from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 On 2016-02-03 at 4:26 PM, HC20.0 said: I think Virtanen's gonna permanently be in the line up from now on. Can't say I'll miss Prust much. That's fantastic that Virtanen will play every game. Starting after tonight, I guess??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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