RowdyCanuck Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) No disrespect to stech but only way his an top 4 is if his paired with a partner like a left handed rasmus ristolainen. He will be moved or let go once other guys show their ready like Woo. Also I think that's why Jim signed Benn to balance stech. Stech plays bigger then what he is but problem is he doesn't have the size to play that way and you can see that during some of his crease battles. Edited July 26, 2019 by RowdyCanuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18W-40C-6W Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Constantly using this image as a way to disparage the player is yet another form of disrespect. It's not an argument, it's your way of conflating this image with the overall impression of Stetcher as a player in order to push the idea that he's overrated and should be moved at the first available opportunity because of your obsession with size. Troy plays bigger than his size would indicate. When games get chippy he's often right there in the thick of things. If you've failed to notice this, then you obviously haven't been watching the games very closely.Besides, size doesn't matter all that much unless, it's utilized, as we discovered with Gudbranson, Kassian, etc etc etc.... Troy is a very good player, and has some untapped offensive talent for sure. But on a deep team he's a 4/5 dman, and so where he is now means good things for this team. He is a player that is a swiss army knife on D. Should one of our offensive dmen go down, he can help on the PP, he competes hard and is a Biega with less physicality and more offensive talent. He isn't as impactful offensively as Myers, or Hughes and as such his role is his role. He has an important role on this team even on the third pair as if that pair is good enough to take some of the pressure (minutes) off the top 2 pairs (because they can be trusted by Green) it only makes the top 2 pairs even more effective as they are more rested and less susceptible to injury. I actually think you and alf are kind of saying the same thing but different ways. Edited July 26, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/26/2019 at 12:07 AM, Kanukfanatic said: Yea he had high toi. He was played over his head because our actual top 4 consisted of 2 D men who are actually top 4 d in edler and tanev. We had no other real top 4 D so stecher had to play those minutes. TOI means nothing....less than nothing when you are talking about a team with almost zero depth last year. He does not pass the eye test as a top 4 d man in my eyes. It might be because I really have no interest in small d men if they are not elite points wise (like Hughes will be) .....which stecher is not. Other than his mediocre points he does have a high engine. But he is small and can't clear the crease and he gets pushed around a lot. As a 3rd pairing D he is fine but I would prefer a guy like Benn who actually has some push back and physicality. And Benn had as many points as Stecher and everyone agrees Benn is a 3rd pairing D. Neither of the 'stats' you used says stecher is an actual top 4 D. Tanev is an actual top 4 D and he never gets many points but his defense was always elite. So go ahead and use those skewed TOI numbers from one of the worst defensive line ups in the league last year to try and say stecher is a top 4 d man. He simply is not imo. Pretty solid assessment. I look at all players in the contest of a playoff roster. While Stecher has likely not peaked yet I do see him as a 3rd pairing with the ability to move up. His intangibles are huge with desire being at the top. He has shown improvement every year since his arrival. The Canuck d-core is transitioning towards CUP contention and whether Stecher can stick or not is in question. But that is true of many players on the roster. Joulevi ad Woo are coming plus hopefully some surprises. If nothing else I suspect Stecher is very aware of that reality and will push hard this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 7/28/2019 at 5:44 PM, Boudrias said: Pretty solid assessment. I look at all players in the contest of a playoff roster. While Stecher has likely not peaked yet I do see him as a 3rd pairing with the ability to move up. His intangibles are huge with desire being at the top. He has shown improvement every year since his arrival. The Canuck d-core is transitioning towards CUP contention and whether Stecher can stick or not is in question. But that is true of many players on the roster. Joulevi ad Woo are coming plus hopefully some surprises. If nothing else I suspect Stecher is very aware of that reality and will push hard this season. He may very well play 3rd pair when we're a contender (which would be awesome for us) but his ability to limit chances, steal pucks and transition pucks with control to the other end of the rink is most certainly '2nd pair' level. Size/offensive production or otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby James Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, aGENT said: He may very well play 3rd pair when we're a contender (which would be awesome for us) but his ability to limit chances, steal pucks and transition pucks with control to the other end of the rink is most certainly '2nd pair' level. Size/offensive production or otherwise. Yeah I agree with that. I think he is a solid player and while some may find him lacking due to his size, having a D core of both bigger guys and slightly smaller guys is alright. Stecher battles hard and will only get better as a Dman these next few years. I think he can be a good #4-5 guy and will hopefully also continue to have a reasonable cap hit which is the kind of player good contending teams need. Edited July 30, 2019 by Bobby James 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung1 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) I think troy is a borderline top 4 dman. He's probably best described as a solid/high-end #5. On a contending team he's on the 3rd pairing. Look at our defense in 2011. We basically had 6 top 4 defensemen, To me, Troy is the kind of player that would be on the bottom pairing on that kind of team. I love Stech and hope we keep him around. Edited July 30, 2019 by Yung1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) Stech last year was 9th in scoring with 23 pts, and 1st in plus/minus with +9 on a team that was -29 plus/minus as a whole....Stech was the best all round defenceman for the Canucks last year and that is with all the injuries to Tanev, Edler, Gud, etc. I see Stech only getting better....definition of underrated = Troy Stecher. Edited August 26, 2019 by Pete M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Pete M said: Stech last year was 9th in scoring with 23 pts, and 1st in plus/minus with +9 on a team that was -29 plus/minus as a whole....Stech was the best all round defenceman for the Canucks last year and that is with all the injuries to Tanev, Edler, Gud, etc. I see Stech only getting better....definition of underrated = Troy Stecher. Edler was better than Stecher and it wasn't even close imo. But Stecher did play well. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: Edler was better than Stecher and it wasn't even close imo. But Stecher did play well. Case in point, Stech is underated when posters say Edler was better and it wasn't even close. When Edler did not play (26 games Edler did not play). Edler only played 56 games ...in those 26 games, Stecher played an average of 21 minutes per game and was a +2... not saying Edler is not valuable to this team because in those 26 games that Edler did not play, the team's record was 7 wins and 19 losses...and when Edler did play, he played a lot of minutes per game, which was a determent to Edler ...but to say Edler was better and it wasn't even close just demonstrates how underrated Stecher is, especially in those 26 games that Edler did not play, the team lost 19 times and Stech was a +2...so obviously Stech was not the problem and demonstrated how well rounded of a player he is (i.e., in those 26 games that Edler did not play, at best the team could have been -12 collectively, but Stech was +2).. ...what really stands out is how bad defensively Gudbranson and Hutton were....they were minus munchers (Hutton, however, did play a lot of minutes per game). Edited August 27, 2019 by Pete M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 The likely make-up of the Canucks D this season will hopefully allow Stecher to continue to grow his game and produce more. He has played well enough over the last few seasons to justify being at least in the top-6 and, as guys like Edler and Tanev get further up in age or continue to deal with injuries, he'll get chances to prove that he can be a top-4 D. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 22 hours ago, xereau said: That was AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Pete M said: Case in point, Stech is underated when posters say Edler was better and it wasn't even close. When Edler did not play (26 games Edler did not play). Edler only played 56 games ...in those 26 games, Stecher played an average of 21 minutes per game and was a +2... not saying Edler is not valuable to this team because in those 26 games that Edler did not play, the team's record was 7 wins and 19 losses...and when Edler did play, he played a lot of minutes per game, which was a determent to Edler ...but to say Edler was better and it wasn't even close just demonstrates how underrated Stecher is, especially in those 26 games that Edler did not play, the team lost 19 times and Stech was a +2...so obviously Stech was not the problem and demonstrated how well rounded of a player he is (i.e., in those 26 games that Edler did not play, at best the team could have been -12 collectively, but Stech was +2).. ...what really stands out is how bad defensively Gudbranson and Hutton were....they were minus munchers (Hutton, however, did play a lot of minutes per game). You are just making a blanket statement saying Stecher was better. No evidence at all except some random numbers. You seriously trying to use a tiny sample size with +/- to make your argument Stecher is under rated? Pretty weak. If you want to actually change anyone's mind then put down some actual research, stats, or eye test examples of why Stecher was our best D man. He is small so his hitting is a non factor in any game. His hussel and compete levels are great. But hard work doesn't make you skilled necessarily. He simply was not our best D man. Ask any scout or hockey commentator that watched the team a lot. Or ask any serious Canuck fan. Come on........ Stecher is not even close to being in the same league as Edler...whether you like it or not. Stecher is a good 3rd pairing D man. That is it...for now. Can he be better? Who knows. Edited August 28, 2019 by Kanukfanatic 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: You are just making a blanket statement saying Stecher was better. No evidence at all except some random numbers. You seriously trying to use a tiny sample size with +/- to make your argument Stecher is under rated? Pretty weak. If you want to actually change anyone's mind then put down some actual research, stats, or eye test examples of why Stecher was our best D man. He is small so his hitting is a non factor in any game. His hussel and compete levels are great. But hard work doesn't make you skilled necessarily. He simply was not our best D man. Ask any scout or hockey commentator that watched the team a lot. Or ask any serious Canuck fan. Come on........ Stecher is not even close to being in the same league as Edler...whether you like it or not. Stecher is a good 3rd pairing D man. That is it...for now. Can he be better? Who knows. lol...kettle calling the pot black (when the pot isn't black and the Kettle is black)...sure go ahead and dismiss the stats from last year when Edler was hurt for 26 games and Stech stepped up and played regular minutes and was the best defensive dman during this time. You seem to think that I'm dissing Edler when Stech was our best most reliable defenseman last year. where's your research?...oh yeah, see below "Edler was better than Stecher and it wasn't even close imo." "But Stecher did play well." "Stecher is not even close to being in the same league as Edler...whether you like it or not. Stecher is a good 3rd pairing D man. That is it...for now. Can he be better? Who knows." Definition of a blanket statement...lol Edited August 28, 2019 by Pete M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Pete M said: lol...kettle calling the pot black (when the pot isn't black and the Kettle is black)...sure go ahead and dismiss the stats from last year when Edler was hurt for 26 games and Stech stepped up and played regular minutes and was the best defensive dman during this time. You seem to think that I'm dissing Edler when Stech was our best most reliable defenseman last year. where's your research?...oh yeah, see below "Edler was better than Stecher and it wasn't even close imo." "But Stecher did play well." "Stecher is not even close to being in the same league as Edler...whether you like it or not. Stecher is a good 3rd pairing D man. That is it...for now. Can he be better? Who knows." Definition of a blanket statement...lol You are right....I said Edler was much better with no stats. Don't really need them because it is obvious to most...not you though. So here are a couple stats: Hits: Edler 127 or 2.3 per game (and many hurt) Stecher 91 (in way more games) or 1.2 (and none hurt) So Edler only played 56 games and Stecher 78. Yet Edler had more goals (5 times as many), assists, points, ppg, pim (which i like), and double the points per game. Want more stats? Edler was our best D man by far. There is simply no logical argument otherwise. Was Stecher ok? Yes...good for a 3rd pairing D that had to play way too much and above his head. Edit: I showed you mine!! Your turn..... Edited August 29, 2019 by Kanukfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 17 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: You are right....I said Edler was much better with no stats. Don't really need them because it is obvious to most...not you though. So here are a couple stats: Hits: Edler 127 or 2.3 per game (and many hurt) Stecher 91 (in way more games) or 1.2 (and none hurt) So Edler only played 56 games and Stecher 78. Yet Edler had more goals (5 times as many), assists, points, ppg, pim (which i like), and double the points per game. Want more stats? Edler was our best D man by far. There is simply no logical argument otherwise. Was Stecher ok? Yes...good for a 3rd pairing D that had to play way too much and above his head. Edit: I showed you mine!! Your turn..... How did Edler fair in those 26 games that he did not play? How many minutes did he play? How reliable was he in those 26 games? Edler is Canucks best defenceman in most of the games he played, but he missed 26 games...Stech played in all 26 games that Edler missed. . Edler went down to injury October 24, after only playing 10 games, he missed 15 games (team went 4 wins and 11 losses in those 15 games); Stech played an average 17 minutes per game and was +4. The team was -19. Edler returned November 24 after being out rehabbing for 30 days and resting. He played 28 games and got injuried again February 4th against Philly. Edler missed another 11 games (team went 3 wins and 8 losses in those 11 games). Stech played an average 26.5 minutes per game and was a -2. The team was -11. Edler returned Feb 28 after recovering and resting. He played the remaining 18 games, which the team played 0.500 hockey to finish the season. Having said this, I still say..."Stech was the best all round defenceman for the Canucks last year and that is with all the injuries to Tanev, Edler, Gud, etc." I believe you underrate Stech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Pete M said: How did Edler fair in those 26 games that he did not play? How many minutes did he play? How reliable was he in those 26 games? Edler is Canucks best defenceman in most of the games he played, but he missed 26 games...Stech played in all 26 games that Edler missed. . Edler went down to injury October 24, after only playing 10 games, he missed 15 games (team went 4 wins and 11 losses in those 15 games); Stech played an average 17 minutes per game and was +4. The team was -19. Edler returned November 24 after being out rehabbing for 30 days and resting. He played 28 games and got injuried again February 4th against Philly. Edler missed another 11 games (team went 3 wins and 8 losses in those 11 games). Stech played an average 26.5 minutes per game and was a -2. The team was -11. Edler returned Feb 28 after recovering and resting. He played the remaining 18 games, which the team played 0.500 hockey to finish the season. Having said this, I still say..."Stech was the best all round defenceman for the Canucks last year and that is with all the injuries to Tanev, Edler, Gud, etc." I believe you underrate Stech Your argument against Edler's ability seems to be that he gets injured...which is completely independent of his playing capabilities. I love Stech and think he proved a lot last year, but I see him as a no. 4 on our team at best, more likely a no. 5. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Pete M said: How did Edler fair in those 26 games that he did not play? How many minutes did he play? How reliable was he in those 26 games? Edler is Canucks best defenceman in most of the games he played, but he missed 26 games...Stech played in all 26 games that Edler missed. . Edler went down to injury October 24, after only playing 10 games, he missed 15 games (team went 4 wins and 11 losses in those 15 games); Stech played an average 17 minutes per game and was +4. The team was -19. Edler returned November 24 after being out rehabbing for 30 days and resting. He played 28 games and got injuried again February 4th against Philly. Edler missed another 11 games (team went 3 wins and 8 losses in those 11 games). Stech played an average 26.5 minutes per game and was a -2. The team was -11. Edler returned Feb 28 after recovering and resting. He played the remaining 18 games, which the team played 0.500 hockey to finish the season. Having said this, I still say..."Stech was the best all round defenceman for the Canucks last year and that is with all the injuries to Tanev, Edler, Gud, etc." I believe you underrate Stech God you are hilarious. I present all the evidence you asked for showing Edler is our best D man by far. But your lack of comprehension or just plain inability to understand it makes you drone on and on asking how a player did when they didn't play??!! How do you think a player played when they didn't play? How did Stecher play in those games he didn't play??!! What a stupid question..... You are odd. I can't debate with someone like that. Good riddance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, -AJ- said: Your argument against Edler's ability seems to be that he gets injured...which is completely independent of his playing capabilities. I love Stech and think he proved a lot last year, but I see him as a no. 4 on our team at best, more likely a no. 5. Edler is Canucks best defenceman in most of the games he played, but he missed 26 games... this matters Keep in mind, I'm only speaking of last year...Edler overall when healthy is Canucks best dman. Edited August 30, 2019 by Pete M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said: God you are hilarious. I present all the evidence you asked for showing Edler is our best D man by far. But your lack of comprehension or just plain inability to understand it makes you drone on and on asking how a player did when they didn't play??!! How do you think a player played when they didn't play? How did Stecher play in those games he didn't play??!! What a stupid question..... You are odd. I can't debate with someone like that. Good riddance. I don't think that you are dense...lol, but I did present last year stats of Stech....maybe you should actually read my posts and the stats that I present. I know, you've already dismissed them as noise and ignored them....therefore, the reason you are unable to debate. Nonetheless, missing 26 games does not help the team, especially when there was a lack of "D" depth on the team. Stech stepped up big time in Elder's absence and with the lack of "D" depth...Stech was the most reliable dman for the full year...if you say Edler was the Canucks best dman by far, then Stech played 26 games last year without our best dman and played big minutes and was a "+" player....with the best dman sitting at home. The win/loss record alone, when Edler did not play, shows how valuable Edler is to this team. No denying when Edler is healthy he is the Canucks best dman and helps the team win games...however, last year, he wasn't healthy and missed 26 games...he still got more points than Stech in 56 games; however, playing more minutes, 1st PP minutes, and being rested for 30 days, then another another 24 days of rest at different points in the season should help with the point totals....Stech is a very good 3rd pairing dman and Edler is a number one pairing dman...but last year Stech was our best dman over a full season imo (last year)... I only ask one thing of you...please put me on ignore, thanks in advance. Edited August 30, 2019 by Pete M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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