Sven Baertschi | LW

[bertuzzi44fan]

40 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

VC Reported that all Canucks passed through waivers.

 

I'm honestly stunned that the Oilers didn't want him. IMO, he would instantly become their best winger. I guess the injury history combined with a noteworthy cap hit was enough to scare people off.

 

Now it's up to Baertschi to prove that he's far too good for the AHL (for the second time in his career) and earn a job back here.

 

EDIT: I realize that it's now also much easier to trade Baertschi with him having cleared waivers, so we still might trade him if we want the additional $2M off the books.

Wouldn't the new team have to worry about calling him up then?He'd likely get picked off.

[-AJ-]

3 minutes ago, bertuzzi44fan said:

Wouldn't the new team have to worry about calling him up then?He'd likely get picked off.

They keep him in the AHL and eat the $2M remaining cap I guess. Still not sure if he's worth that for AHL dominance though. 

[Noble 6]

I still don't really understand this move.

 

Benning was talking about Green having a specific structure for the bottom-6; guys that can forecheck and contribute on the penalty kill. To me, Baertschi was a good forechecker. There's more to it than just skating fast at the defenseman and getting a hit in, Baertschi was smart in applying pressure and can read plays that other players can't. His anticipation works well here. He's not going to bulldoze someone to get the puck, but quickness and anticipation go a long way. 

 

Baertschi doesn't kill penalties. At the end of the day, I don't think that's a good enough reason to justify sending him down. Assuming we sent down Schaller and Eriksson instead, we would still have Suttter, Beagle, Motte and Pearson as the main penalty killers with guys like Horvat, Ferland and Virtanen being able to sub in when needed. I can understand not wanting any of the top 6 guys (Horvat and Ferland) to kill penalties because Green wants to play a high tempo game and controlling everyone's minutes will go a long way in preserving that style, but our top 4 PK options are all in the bottom 6. Again, I don't think this is a good enough reason to cut someone like Baertschi. 

 

People have been talking about injuries and how Baertschi can't stay healthy for a full season. It's unfortunate, but if a season/career ending injury were to happen, what would actually happen? His contract would go on LTIR and not count against the cap, not hurting us in any way. Any minor injury can be addressed by simply calling up any of our forwards in Utica. And besides, why does Baertschi's injury history diminish his ability to play on the team but Sutter's doesn't? Gaudette made the team as a center, so it makes sense that a center should have been pushed down, but nobody was. We also have the same player on a cheaper deal with less injury history in Beagle. Again, it just doesn't add up for me. 

 

There seems to be a lot of hope that guys like Leivo, Virtanen, etc. can pick up the slack scoring wise, but I wouldn't bet on it (unless they're with Pettersson). Baertschi was someone capable of making plays with or without Pettersson or Horvat, though obviously not to the same degree. Who else can do that? Are you really comfortable in having 2-3 forwards capable of that? I don't think that's a recipe for success. 

 

The main possible reason that comes to mind for this move is that Benning wanted to give Baertschi time to fully rest, recover and get his timing back. He did mention that Baertschi looked a little passive and was avoiding contact. I'm not sure that sending him to Utica would be the best option in that scenario, but it kind of makes sense. Benning didn't imply that at all, he simply said Baertschi was pushed out because Green wanted PK players in the bottom 6. 

 

Overall, I think this was a bad move with bad implications for how the organization wants the roster built going forward this year. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, bertuzzi44fan said:

Wouldn't the new team have to worry about calling him up then?He'd likely get picked off.

I thought coming up was okay, and it's only when a guy goes down he needs to clear?  Then once down, he can get recalled on an emergency basis, play for 29 days, and then go down again without waivers?

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I thought coming up was okay, and it's only when a guy goes down he needs to clear?  Then once down, he can get recalled on an emergency basis, play for 29 days, and then go down again without waivers?

Yup. Recall waivers were eliminated from the CBA. Players can be freely called up, and they have an exemption from waivers until they play 10 games or spend 30 days on the NHL roster.

[kloubek]

Rather sad to see Sven moved to the "In the system" subforum. 

 

I felt when he first arrived, he didn't have enough tenacity or defensive acumen. But he worked on that and I believe it is only due to injury that he hasn't managed to get to be a consistent 40-50 point guy. Now the battle is even more uphill for him.

 

He is well liked in the room and continues to personally want to do well despite being one concussion away from retirement. I think it shows his character, and it is sad to see him demoted. I can't imagine he feels great about that - or the fact no team wanted him for free.

 

I hope he takes this opportunity to kill it in the AHL and prove himself once again.  No doubt he will see time back in the bigs once we lose guys to injury, and that kind of talent as backup is actually spectacular to have from a Canuck perspective.

 

Wishing the best for Sven.

[UFCanuck]

Hopefully his dog is comfortable with the move.

[Bure_Pavel]

He just had a baby to if im recalling correctly, rough time to uproot and move. 

[Bobby James]

I think Sven will be okay. This time in the AHL I don't believe will be permanent for the guy and he should just treat it as a chance to get to 100% and get his game back on point. 

 

The Canucks will call him up for any injury (which as the Canucks will sadly happen soon) or if there is a trade. He'll have lots of opportunity to remake the team and I think he can do it. Worst case is he'll play great in the AHL and a trade will be worked out for him. Once he shows the injury is in his past, I definitely think teams will want him. 

 

I like Sven a lot so I hope he stays healthy and rips it up so he can come back to the NHL. 

[dank.sinatra]

Even though this isn't technically classified as a "conditioning stint" I believe it will be similar. 

 

Really tough to see Bear sent down when Schaller is still taking up a roster spot.

 

But (and I really hope this is true) I'm taking this as Bear being sent down to get his game back in order and confidence back up after missing nearly all of last season and just an overall brutal run of injuries. If he can do that I have faith JB will clear out some scha- um I mean scraps and make room Bear. 

 

Really hoping this turns into a positive come-back story for the kid. And this one of the rare times I think there's actually a good chance of that happening.

[Kanukfanatic]

22 hours ago, J-23 said:

Fair point. 

 

Most people aren’t mad that Baer isn’t on the roster anymore. It’s the way he’s leaving, probably could have got something out of him. He’s a top 6 guy.

JB tried to trade Baer he said. No takers.

 

I like Baer...probably other GMs also having a glut of players and they don't want to chance a player making 3.4 million with health issues. That could all change in a few weeks after injuries though.  

[Nucker 67]

If he proves he can produce in the physical AHL and stay healthy, then he'll be back

[Pete M]

9 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

I still don't really understand this move.

 

Benning was talking about Green having a specific structure for the bottom-6; guys that can forecheck and contribute on the penalty kill. To me, Baertschi was a good forechecker. There's more to it than just skating fast at the defenseman and getting a hit in, Baertschi was smart in applying pressure and can read plays that other players can't. His anticipation works well here. He's not going to bulldoze someone to get the puck, but quickness and anticipation go a long way. 

 

Baertschi doesn't kill penalties. At the end of the day, I don't think that's a good enough reason to justify sending him down. Assuming we sent down Schaller and Eriksson instead, we would still have Suttter, Beagle, Motte and Pearson as the main penalty killers with guys like Horvat, Ferland and Virtanen being able to sub in when needed. I can understand not wanting any of the top 6 guys (Horvat and Ferland) to kill penalties because Green wants to play a high tempo game and controlling everyone's minutes will go a long way in preserving that style, but our top 4 PK options are all in the bottom 6. Again, I don't think this is a good enough reason to cut someone like Baertschi. 

 

People have been talking about injuries and how Baertschi can't stay healthy for a full season. It's unfortunate, but if a season/career ending injury were to happen, what would actually happen? His contract would go on LTIR and not count against the cap, not hurting us in any way. Any minor injury can be addressed by simply calling up any of our forwards in Utica. And besides, why does Baertschi's injury history diminish his ability to play on the team but Sutter's doesn't? Gaudette made the team as a center, so it makes sense that a center should have been pushed down, but nobody was. We also have the same player on a cheaper deal with less injury history in Beagle. Again, it just doesn't add up for me. 

 

There seems to be a lot of hope that guys like Leivo, Virtanen, etc. can pick up the slack scoring wise, but I wouldn't bet on it (unless they're with Pettersson). Baertschi was someone capable of making plays with or without Pettersson or Horvat, though obviously not to the same degree. Who else can do that? Are you really comfortable in having 2-3 forwards capable of that? I don't think that's a recipe for success. 

 

The main possible reason that comes to mind for this move is that Benning wanted to give Baertschi time to fully rest, recover and get his timing back. He did mention that Baertschi looked a little passive and was avoiding contact. I'm not sure that sending him to Utica would be the best option in that scenario, but it kind of makes sense. Benning didn't imply that at all, he simply said Baertschi was pushed out because Green wanted PK players in the bottom 6. 

 

Overall, I think this was a bad move with bad implications for how the organization wants the roster built going forward this year. 

would rather have 3 scoring lines than 2 checking lines and an extra PKer. Baer could score more than anyone on the bottom 6, if healthy.

[kenhodgejr]

I still think Baertchi on the top line would create more offence than with Ferland. I could be wrong. But I hope he gets back to playing at 100% 

[Grape]

1 hour ago, kenhodgejr said:

I still think Baertchi on the top line would create more offence than with Ferland. I could be wrong. But I hope he gets back to playing at 100% 

I believe so as well. I like Ferland, but Baertschi almost surely gives you more offense when he's healthy.

 

I'd rather fix our scoring issues first before worrying about having culture setting guys who play the right way, can protect our stars, and set a tone etc... The primary focus should always be maximizing GF and minimizing GA. 

 

Now that I think about it, has Ferland even had to earn his role? Or did we just automatically give him a role alongside EP and BB? Don't see the meritocracy in having a guy just come in without competing and play on the first line, while a guy who might be better and has been on the team for awhile has to battle for even a roster spot.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Grape

[Grape]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:05 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

Those points were in pre-season.  Pre-season doesn’t necessarily translate to the regular season.  The reason Baertschi can’t put up 50 points and 25 goals is that he’s never managed to play more than 69 games in an entire year.  This isn’t a one year thing either, he hasn’t played more than 69 games in a year since his junior hockey.  

 

The fact is he can’t stay healthy. What makes you think this year would be any different?  We don’t need to give him another opportunity. We have other guys who can fill a 3rd line role.  Baertschi can’t hit, he can’t go into the corners, he can’t go to the front of the net.  He’s basically a perimeter player who’s one more head shot away from being out of the league.  That’s hard to say but it’s the truth.  Baertschi has more skill than Leivo and Virtanen but Leivo and Virtanen are better 3rd line players in Green’s system.  That’s the bottom line. 

The thing is, he's healthy right now.  If/when he gets injured, then you move on to to a replacement player; but how does it hurt your team to have a perfectly healthy Sven Baertschi start the season?

 

If the best player in the world is always injured for 90% of the season, you're not gonna cut him off of the team for that reason. You keep him until he inevitably gets injured and then wait until he recovers again. Obviously this is a massive reach but it's the same concept. Sven is one of our top offensive forwards, and undoubtedly a top 12 forward on the team when healthy. The fact that he is healthy now should be enough to keep him on the team at the start of the season. 

 

And I'm not sure what "system" you think Green implements, but I can guarantee you there's no system in the NHL that says "take offense away from an already offensively challenged team." I mean our bottom 6 had by FAR the worst goal differential in the league last year. Having the same guys like Leivo, Virtanen, Eriksson, Sutter in those positions will not change anything. It should be glaringly obvious when we trot out our "checking line" because they fit Green's "system," while other teams have scorers on their 3rd and 4th lines and continue to dominate.

 

The answer for our bottom 6 woes should have been to add skill and offense to it. Sven could have been perfect for helping our bottom 6 not be historically bad again. Instead we're literally going to have almost the same bottom 6 because it "fits Green's system." I'm not bashing Green, I'm just refuting the idea that any coach would have a system that doesn't allow for there to be skill on the 3rd line, because that's crazy. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Grape

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, Grape said:

I believe so as well. I like Ferland, but Baertschi almost surely gives you more offense when he's healthy.

 

I'd rather fix our scoring issues first before worrying about having culture setting guys who play the right way, can protect our stars, and set a tone etc... The primary focus should always be maximizing GF and minimizing GA. 

 

Now that I think about it, has Ferland even had to earn his role? Or did we just automatically give him a role alongside EP and BB? Don't see the meritocracy in having a guy just come in without competing and play on the first line, while a guy who might be better and has been on the team for awhile has to battle for even a roster spot.

A BIG no thanks to Baer with Petey and Boeser.

 

Did you see what happened to Petey last year when he got body slammed? At least Ferland would punch the guy out if that happens. Ferland was one of the only physical Canucks in that last pre season game when he scored that beauty goal in front of the net.

 

No....Ferland deserves it and has what we sorely need. Physicality AND scoring.

 

 

[thrago]

Well this sucks for Sven this works out great for the Canucks, when was the last time we had a legitimate top 6 forward we could call up?  Have we ever?  I really doubt he will be down for long with our injury history.  I think this will prove to be very valuable, still bummed he's not on the team I really like him as a player. 

[Lancaster]

He was a pivotal player for the Comets during their Calder Cup run.  So he's no stranger there.... it's not like he's being sent off to Newfoundland or something. 

He'll go down there, put up like 12 points in 10 games, and then be the first one back up with the Canucks.  

 

 

[aGENT]

14 hours ago, Pete M said:

would rather have 3 scoring lines than 2 checking lines and an extra PKer. Baer could score more than anyone on the bottom 6, if healthy.

Getting 35%-40% ozone starts and match up usage rather than his more usual 60%+ ozone starts? I'm skeptical.

 

Equally skeptical he can stay healthy.

 

Roussel gets nearly as many points in that harder usage than Baer got in his softer usage BTW. 

 

I like the kid, but there's wasn't a spot for him on this iteration of the Canucks.