stawns Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, baumerman77 said: I expected a little more. I know his team is worse than last year. I think his traditional stats are a little inflated with noise. His primary points per game (5v5) is at .31 which I was hoping would be a bit higher (but not horrible). And his shots per game 5v5 (I think a very important measure for junior defensemen) is only at .88 which is 89th for defensemen in the OHL, that is disappointing. I don't find his game remotely disappointing and he's not an offensive dman anyway. I care about keeping pucks out the net and making a good first pass, both things he excels at. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) If Pierre L D or Poolparty had fallen to the Canucks I betcha people would still be doubting the picks because Tkachuk looks better than those guys as of today. PLD has been very underwhelming in the WJC and has less than a point per game in the Q. Pool Party has 1 goal with the coilers this year and has been sitting out lots. Point is other teams passed on Tkachuck too, maybe we should just sit back and watch Juolevi develop - he has all the tools to put it together at the NHL level. Personally Im not sold on Tkachuk turning out better than picks 3-5. Hes been put in a pretty good position to succeed with a strong supporting cast around him. He was given PP time right off of the bat. Not only that, I remember when 18 year old Sam Bennett looked like a phenom in the making - lets see what happens to keith Junior when teams have some video of him and learn his tendencies... Edited January 4, 2017 by Darius71 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just now, stawns said: I don't find his game remotely disappointing and he's not an offensive dman anyway. I care about keeping pucks out the net and making a good first pass, both things he excels at. Yes, but as the first dman taken in a draft (and if you expect him to be a top 2 defender in the NHL) he should do well offensively in his +1 year in junior. Even most defensive Dmen in the NHL put up good offensive numbers in junior (and Juolevi isn't a stay at home Dman). I do like his first pass which is arguably the most important attribute for a defender in the modern NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great 8 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I know people are saying our D pairings are looking good for the future but I can't help but wonder if we require 1 more high end D prospect. Look at CBJ they have 3 young defencemen taken in the top 10 of there draft year and are looking super stable for the future. Where as we only have Joulevi and Gudbranson as our top 10 pick defencemen. I think we are hoping for Stetcher and Hutton to become solid players but the reality is they are much riskier to reach there ceilings than a top 10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 minute ago, The Great 8 said: I know people are saying our D pairings are looking good for the future but I can't help but wonder if we require 1 more high end D prospect. Look at CBJ they have 3 young defencemen taken in the top 10 of there draft year and are looking super stable for the future. Where as we only have Joulevi and Gudbranson as our top 10 pick defencemen. I think we are hoping for Stetcher and Hutton to become solid players but the reality is they are much riskier to reach there ceilings than a top 10 pick. One more would certainly be nice. Where they're picked doesn't really matter. What kind of NHL D they become, does. But we do also have Tryamkin (who could very well become the #1D we've always wanted) along with Stetcher, Hutton and Gudbranson which you mentioned (and Sbisa/Tanev, which you didn't). Then there's decent looking (though more likely bottom 4 projecting) guys like Brisebois, Subban and Neill etc which could surprise. Plus there's always trades, UFA's etc. So we're presently 'ok' with some guys with upside (but also risk). Another high end guy would be great, though may not be 'necessary'. If we don't pick another, high end D with our first, I hope Benning goes after a (likely high risk/reward) offensive D with our high 2nd. Good thing there's still a few years left in the rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 5 hours ago, The 5th Line said: How can you say you expected more? He started the year as an 18 year old and he's on pace for 50+ points. Not to mention he was a 6th overall pick,it's not like he was a top 3 pick. His ceiling is probably more like a Corey Perry, pain in the ass and good around the net. Just to make sure you understand - I like his production right now and I like his grit when he was with the Knights. But I still expect more because he grew up in a hockey household with a lot of money and with a Dad who's also a forward. Here's what I would have expected to see if his ceiling was really high: somebody who when he has the puck is a lot more creative and a lot quicker somebody who can skate faster than what he has shown right now Let's see where we're at 3 years from now when Juolevi should already be in the league. If he's among the consensus top 5 best players from this draft then and Juolevi isn't, then obviously I was wrong and so were Benning and Linden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said: Let's see where we're at 3 years from now when Juolevi should already be in the league. If he's among the consensus top 5 best players from this draft then and Juolevi isn't, then obviously I was wrong and so were Benning and Linden. Even then will be a bit premature. OJ will likely be a sophomore and likely still in a depth role at that point. 4 and 5 years and we start to get a clearer picture. 8-10 years and it should be more definitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 9 hours ago, The 5th Line said: How can you say you expected more? He started the year as an 18 year old and he's on pace for 50+ points. Not to mention he was a 6th overall pick,it's not like he was a top 3 pick. His ceiling is probably more like a Corey Perry, pain in the ass and good around the net. If he ends up as good as Perry in his prime I'll cry. Unless Juolevi turns into a star also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 6 hours ago, baumerman77 said: I'd say Juolevi is most likely going to be a 3 or 4 Dmen based on where most 4-6 D picks end up (nothing about him personally, rather just the baserate). And I don't think he has shown enough this year to warrant being bumped up into a top 2 projection (although it isn't out of the realm of possibilities). Yup, it will most definitely be a 'wait and see'. Although I am not too happy with Juolevi production in the OHL this year, I was hoping for a bit more. Really? I thought it was pretty obvious his production wouldn't be as sexy. Marner, Tkatchuk and Dvorak all leaving the team. Along with the WJC where half the team went off into the sunset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said: We now have too many D prospects and need to take the BPA at forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said: Really? I thought it was pretty obvious his production wouldn't be as sexy. Marner, Tkatchuk and Dvorak all leaving the team. Along with the WJC where half the team went off into the sunset. Yes, even with factoring that in I was expecting more. Alas, there is plenty of time, he is still very young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 7 hours ago, baumerman77 said: It is far too early to tell. But for those who wanted a defencemen with the pick, shouldn't the premature debate be between Juolevi and Chychrun? Nah, no debate necessary. Lets just rip on Juolevi before he even plays a single NHL game. Some people in here are completely ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhodgejr Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Do not worry about Juolevi!! He will be a top line defencemen for many years in the NHL. His patience, vision, and hockey IQ are elite. He possesses better skill attributes than any other defence prospect in his draft year. He might not have the size, strength, and hitting power of the others but I see a Lidstrom type player or a Hennrik Sedin type player that plays defence and makes a smart first pass. He will be a key element of our teams success. I am hopping Guillaume Brisebois pans out as well. For the 2017 draft, with the first and second round picks I hope we target potential 1st line scorers. Nico Hischier or Eli Tolvanen would be nice in the first round!! What makes a draft really successful is if you can land 2-3 more NHL quality players in later rounds. Edited January 5, 2017 by kenhodgejr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSALLENT Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 http://thehockeywriters.com/did-olli-juolevi-get-his-coach-fired/ Quote Team Finland’s struggles in the 2017 World Junior Championships (WJC) were well publicized. The defending gold medalists lost their first three preliminary round games before finally defeating Switzerland in their final game and sweeping Latvia in a relegation series. The Finns didn’t just have a bad tournament, it was historically bad. They now hold the distinction of being the only defending champion to find themselves in the relegation series. Their 9th place finish is the worst for the nation since the tournament’s inception in 1977. View image on Twitter Follow IIHF WJC ✔@iihf_wjc After missing #WorldJuniors QF, Finland releases head coach Jukka Rautakorpi. U18 coach Jussi Ahokas takes over. http://www.worldjunior2017.com/en/news/finland-changes-coach/ … 7:32 PM - 30 Dec 2016 · Montréal, Québec 3333 Retweets 4646 likes Once their fate was sealed and it became clear that the team would not be advancing to the playoff round, General Manager Timo Backman relieved head coach Jukka Rautakorpi and his three assistant coaches of their positions. Jussi Ahokas, who was in Montreal scouting the tournament as he is/was expected to be Finland’s head coach at the 2018 WJC, took over the bench in an effort to stop the bleeding. His efforts worked, as the team avoided the worst possible fate by defeating Latvia and avoiding relegation. Blame the NHL Without dissecting the team’s failure too much, it’s clear that losing their biggest contributors from 2016 hurt them mightily. Gone were Patrik Laine, Jesse Puljujarvi, Sebastian Aho and Mikko Rantanen who are all playing in the NHL this season. In 2016, Laine was named tournament MVP, Puljujarvi and Aho finished first and second in tournament scoring and Rantanen was the team’s captain. When you lose players like that it’s nearly impossible to replicate success. All told, the team had only 5 returning players in this year’s tournament. Stingy with the OJ Of those 5 returning players, no one felt more pressure than the team’s captain, Olli Juolevi. Before being selected 5th overall by the Vancouver Canucks in the 2016 NHL Entry draft, Juolevi had a strong showing at the 2016 WJC. He tied USA’s Zach Werenski in scoring amongst defenceman and was named to the tournament’s All-Star team. This year, however, things didn’t go quite so well for Juolevi. He finished the preliminary round with just one assist in four games and added an additional assist in the team’s second relegation game. Embed from Getty Images Related: Recap: Canucks Beat Lowly Avs Even more interesting was the fact that Juolevi averaged only 20:35 of time-on-ice per game during the preliminary round, good enough for 3rd on the team. Considering Juolevi’s skill and experience it’s surprising that former coach Rautakorpi would limit his captain to so few minutes. When Rautakorpi was replaced last Friday, some analysts and media personalities proposed that his limited usage of Juolevi may have sealed his fate. It’s an interesting narrative that we’ve seen play out in the NHL many times. The coach, for whatever reason, loses or never earns the trust of his top player, the team plays poorly and the coach is sent packing. It stands to reason that as a new coach was brought in to sort through the mess, Ahokas would acquiesce to the pressure and play Juolevi top-pairing minutes. Except, that’s not what happened. Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss With Ahokas in charge, the Finns went 3-0. The team remained goal-starved but displayed flashes of traditional Finnish tenacity and showed reasonable improvement from their play earlier in the tournament. What remained unchanged however was Olli Juolevi’s ice-time. Under Ahokas, Juolevi averaged just half-a-minute more per-game, good for just 3rd on the team. In fact, Ahokas relied most heavily on Vili Saarijarvi giving him almost 3 minutes more per game than Rautakorpi had. Follow IIHF WJC ✔@iihf_wjc HIGHLIGHTS from Finland's first win at this year's #WorldJuniors, 2-0 vs. Switzerland. @leijonat @SwissIceHockey 5:59 PM - 31 Dec 2016 1717 Retweets 3939 likes Whatever the reasons were for limiting Juolevi’s minutes, it seems that both Rautakorpi and Ahokas were in agreement with regards to his usage. It seems unlikely then that Rautakorpi would have been fired over something that appears to be accepted within the Finnish Association. Or, at least, accepted so long as the team was winning. So, the answer to the burning question, “Did Olli Juolevi get his coach fired?” is an unsatisfying “probably not.” Related: Preview: Canucks Gun for 4 Straight Against Avs Not a Total Loss While it may provide little consolation to Juolevi, Finnish hockey fans and Canucks fans there’s something to be gained from adversity. Provided he can maintain his self-confidence, Juolevi will learn from this experience and will be a better hockey player for having gone through it. From a player described as “brimming with confidence”, it’ll be interesting to see how Juolevi bounces back from his first real humbling experience on the big stage. London Calling While Juolevi’s tournament can’t be described as anything other than disappointing he does have a soft landing spot in London for the remainder of the season. The London Knights sit atop the OHL’s Midwest Division and are expected to take another run at the J. Ross Robertson Cup once again. (London Knights) Juolevi has had a strong “Draft +1” season in London and will be a major factor in whether or not the Knights can repeat as OHL champions and ultimately Memorial Cup champions. Of course, with London’s top players from last season Mitch Marner, Matthew Tkachuk and Christian Dvorak all playing in the NHL, Juolevi will have to carry more of the load if his team is going to repeat last season’s success. Sound familiar? The “he got his coaches fired” narrative didn’t quite fit, but the “redemption” narrative just might. Title caught my attention, but an interesting read imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Anyone with any idea as to why Olli hasn't been playing much throughout the tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 3 hours ago, suitup said: Anyone with any idea as to why Olli hasn't been playing much throughout the tournament? You mean to say any one with "a positive idea" for such. I mean OJ is the 1st Dman we picked in the first round for a long time and we've never won a cup during those times, so you can't possibly give a poor rating on the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 14 hours ago, suitup said: Anyone with any idea as to why Olli hasn't been playing much throughout the tournament? I didn't get to see much of his/FIN's play at the WJC but I'm guessing that it's because they didn't tend to have the lead much. While OJ certainly does help drive the play forward/possession and has some offensive skill, he's less offensively 'dynamic' vs some of FIN's other D. So, largely I'd assume, because they were chasing the vast majority of the tournament and trying to create offense. If they had a more talented forward group, you would likely have seen a more even distribution of ice time between him and the more offensive D and if they had the benefit of leads, he likely would have had even more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedlee Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Us Canuck fans are such a fragile bunch...we are so used to first round busts that any little sign of trouble and we're in panic mode. And I get that. I would have loved to see OJ perform like Chabot did with Canada. Maybe OJ will surprise us next year at training camp. If Werenski can make Columbus at 19 maybe OJ can do the same. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, Zedlee said: Us Canuck fans are such a fragile bunch...we are so used to first round busts that any little sign of trouble and we're in panic mode. And I get that. I would have loved to see OJ perform like Chabot did with Canada. Maybe OJ will surprise us next year at training camp. If Werenski can make Columbus at 19 maybe OJ can do the same. Fingers crossed! Chabot is Senator's property. They got a good dman in the making in Chabot. Juolevi needs to put on some weight and strength in order to make the club next season. I wouldn't mind him being in junior another year, and then the AHL for a year or two before he makes the big club. If he can step in right away onto the big club, even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said: Chabot is Senator's property. They got a good dman in the making in Chabot. Juolevi needs to put on some weight and strength in order to make the club next season. I wouldn't mind him being in junior another year, and then the AHL for a year or two before he makes the big club. If he can step in right away onto the big club, even better. I think he's at least until the 18/19 season as well. Even then, it's ok if he spends some time in Utica that year as well. Even if we trade a D this summer (say Tanev), there isn't particularly room for him even if he is physically 'ready' (which IMO is doubtful). Edler, Stetcher Hutton, Gudbranson Sbisa, Tryamkin Let the kid incubate and get bigger. Edited January 6, 2017 by J.R. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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