Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[TheHockeyNerds]

Hey atleast we can say MTL messed up more by trading serg :-) with they said let's hope OJ becomes a player for us ! 

[Alflives]

Just now, TheHockeyNerds said:

Hey atleast we can say MTL messed up more by trading serg :-) with they said let's hope OJ becomes a player for us ! 

Good point.  Drouin is not helping them much, if at all.  I’d rather have OJ over Drouin.  

[MoneypuckOverlord]

so I guess because Sergechev and Tkachuk is off to a faster start, people think they will be better players down the road? 

[Silky mitts]

16 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

Thought you were implying that he’s only good because of hedman... and I was merely pointing out that our top 5 pick in the same year, a “top pairing guy” according to most here, can’t even make the nhl yet.

Ah I see , but no I'm jealous of Tampa he's who I wanted of all the dmen and that pairing will be one of the best in the league

[Standing_Tall#37]

Just now, Silky mitts said:

Ah I see , but no I'm jealous of Tampa he's who I wanted of all the dmen and that pairing will be one of the best in the league

Yea they’re scary good.  They seem to draft and develop well... I’m jealous of that. 

[Blömqvist]

Juolevi was going to take a few years to make the NHL considering his size and how he needed to add on ~20lbs of muscle. Other defenseman, like Sergachev or Chychrun who are already playing in the NHL, were deemed by scouts at the time of the draft to have "NHL ready size." That's why Chychrun played in the NHL in his D+1 season, and Sergachev followed a year after that. 

[Standing_Tall#37]

2 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

Juolevi was going to take a few years to make the NHL considering his size and how he needed to add on ~20lbs of muscle. Other defenseman, like Sergachev or Chychrun who are already playing in the NHL, were deemed by scouts at the time of the draft to have "NHL ready size." That's why Chychrun played in the NHL in his D+1 season, and Sergachev followed a year after that. 

So then the question is, why was Juolevi taken when he was when he clearly wasn’t the best D-man available? The hard truth is that the the top 5 draft picks should be nhl ready and the top 10 picks should need 1 year development at the very most. 

[Erik Karlsson]

22 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

so I guess because Sergechev and Tkachuk is off to a faster start, people think they will be better players down the road? 

Uh Tkachuk had 53 points as a rookie straight out of the draft and has 5 points in 7 games this season. He's only going to get better especially when he gets his man strength... A first liner who is physical and agitates is pretty rare. Is Juolevi the only prospect who's going to keep developing or something? Not sure why when people say they prefer other picks they get $&!# on around here. OJ almost looks like he's regressed and doesn't have the greatest attitude. Doesn't mean he still won't end up being the better and more important player, but it's not very likely imo. Not going to compare Juolevi to other d men from the same draft since he was the highest rated one.

[logic]

28 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

So then the question is, why was Juolevi taken when he was when he clearly wasn’t the best D-man available? The hard truth is that the the top 5 draft picks should be nhl ready and the top 10 picks should need 1 year development at the very most. 

lol show me one year where all top 5 picks play in the NHL the next year

[Standing_Tall#37]

2 minutes ago, logic said:

lol show me one year where all top 5 picks play in the NHL the next year

The draft year or the following one? 

 

Because by the following one usually all of them play if they’re not busts.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Standing_Tall#37

[Blömqvist]

1 hour ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

So then the question is, why was Juolevi taken when he was when he clearly wasn’t the best D-man available? The hard truth is that the the top 5 draft picks should be nhl ready and the top 10 picks should need 1 year development at the very most. 

 

According to 5 scouting services (TSN Bob McKenzie, The Draft Analyst, McKeen's Hockey, HockeyProspect.com, and Craig Button), in their final June draft rankings Olli Juolevi was rated as the top defenseman 3 out 5 times. According to Bob McKenzie in his *consensus* rankings, Juolevi was the best defenseman available at the draft. He was rated as the 6th best prospect according to TSN Bob McKenzie in his *consensus* rankings and was 3 spots ahead of Sergachev in those same rankings. McKeen's Hockey had Juolevi as their 5th best prospect (and highest rated defenseman). HockeyProspect.com had Juolevi as their 6th best prospect and highest rated defenseman, two spots over Sergachev.

 

Further to your point, both Jesse Puljujarvi and Pierre-Luc Dubois did not make the NHL in their D+1 season and needed that year to develop. Puljujarvi is still developing in the AHL, while Dubois may get sent down to the QMJHL. Dylan Strome (the 3rd overall pick from 2015) is in the AHL in his D+3 season.

 

I understand that the NHL is a young man's game, and that there is the need/want for instant gratification among our fanbase, but prospects take time. Rebuilds take time. Had we won the 3rd overall selection in the 2016 draft and had the chance to pick Puljujarvi or Dubois instead of Juolevi our fanbase would be stoked and excited with who many considered to be sure-fire top line players who are NHL ready but even they still needed and need time to develop. Heck, looking back at 2014 we can say in hindsight Benning should have taken Nylander or Ehlers but at the same time the Flames and the Islanders could say that too instead of Bennett and Dal Colle, who they themselves looked like sure-fire NHLers.

 

Olli Juolevi's skillset will translate into today's NHL. He just needs to further develop physically (he's gotten bigger, now he has to turn that extra weight into muscle to provide power and explosiveness in his skating), his defensive game on the ice, and his professionalism and he'll come out of whipping boy status in no time.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Blömqvist

[Dats hockey]

4 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Is that the same as saying Boeser shouldn't look as good as he does because he's on a bad team and Viktor Mete shouldn't look good out there because he's on a bad team?

I’m just trying to say that if you surrounded by talent you’re bound get point. For example Patrick maroon last season. Do you think if Boeser played with someone like Backstrom he wouldn’t score more?

[Standing_Tall#37]

51 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

 

According to 5 scouting services (TSN Bob McKenzie, The Draft Analyst, McKeen's Hockey, HockeyProspect.com, and Craig Button), in their final June draft rankings Olli Juolevi was rated as the top defenseman 3 out 5 times. According to Bob McKenzie in his *consensus* rankings, Juolevi was the best defenseman available at the draft. He was rated as the 6th best prospect according to TSN Bob McKenzie in his *consensus* rankings and was 3 spots ahead of Sergachev in those same rankings. McKeen's Hockey had Juolevi as their 5th best prospect (and highest rated defenseman). HockeyProspect.com had Juolevi as their 6th best prospect and highest rated defenseman, two spots over Sergachev.

 

Further to your point, both Jesse Puljujarvi and Pierre-Luc Dubois did not make the NHL in their D+1 season and needed that year to develop. Puljujarvi is still developing in the AHL, while Dubois may get sent down to the QMJHL. Dylan Strome (the 3rd overall pick from 2015) is in the AHL in his D+3 season.

 

I understand that the NHL is a young man's game, and that there is the need/want for instant gratification among our fanbase, but prospects take time. Rebuilds take time. Had we won the 3rd overall selection in the 2016 draft and had the chance to pick Puljujarvi or Dubois instead of Juolevi our fanbase would be stoked and excited with who many considered to be sure-fire top line players who are NHL ready but even they still needed and need time to develop. Heck, looking back at 2014 we can say in hindsight Benning should have taken Nylander or Ehlers but at the same time the Flames and the Islanders could say that too instead of Bennett and Dal Colle, who they themselves looked like sure-fire NHLers.

 

Olli Juolevi's skillset will translate into today's NHL. He just needs to further develop physically, his defensive game on the ice, and his professionalism and he'll come out of whipping boy status in no time.

That’s a good way to look at it, I’m not worried about instant gratification. However I see the need amongst some players to develop in the NHL, otherwise they flatline or regress. I think if there’s opportunity he should get nine games up to see how his game translates against the best. I often worry though that if a player needs 3-5 years of development when chosen in the top 10 that perhaps they were taken higher than what they should. There was no doubt that OJ played unreal in his draft year. But some players, that’s where they top out if not thrown into better competition. Aquiring a young guy that has potential in Pouliot gives Juolevi another year... but I’d rather see him with the big club as a 6th defenseman than someone like Biega or Weircoich if it comes to that. At least Juolevi has potential to grow from there and may develop with lighter icetime and assignments but at the speed of the best players available. I’m thinking like a drew doughty, Seth Jones, Morgan Reilly type of break into the league rather than taking the Griffin Reinhart approach.

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

That’s a good way to look at it, I’m not worried about instant gratification. However I see the need amongst some players to develop in the NHL, otherwise they flatline or regress. I think if there’s opportunity he should get nine games up to see how his game translates against the best. I often worry though that if a player needs 3-5 years of development when chosen in the top 10 that perhaps they were taken higher than what they should. There was no doubt that OJ played unreal in his draft year. But some players, that’s where they top out if not thrown into better competition. Aquiring a young guy that has potential in Pouliot gives Juolevi another year... but I’d rather see him with the big club as a 6th defenseman than someone like Biega or Weircoich if it comes to that. At least Juolevi has potential to grow from there and may develop with lighter icetime and assignments but at the speed of the best players available. I’m thinking like a drew doughty, Seth Jones, Morgan Reilly type of break into the league rather than taking the Griffin Reinhart approach.

Hutton is presently our 6th D man (no injuries), not Biega or Wiercioch. It does OJ no good to sit in a press box. 

 

With injuries, it's Pouliot. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by aGENT

[Standing_Tall#37]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Hutton is presently our 6th D man (no injuries), not Biega or Wiercioch. It does OJ no good to sit in a press box. 

 

With injuries, it's Pouliot. 

I was referring to injuries. Meaning if Biega or wiercioch slot in to become #6. Which happens in the event of another injury or a suspension or something.

[Derp...]

In theory this could work in our favour because it keeps Juolevis cost low for an extra year. 2019-2020 will be last year of his ELC now. Our top 3 picks from last year will be 22 and likely contributing in the NHL as regulars or call ups on ELC. Our current crop of NHL youngsters will be 24 and up. Hopefully needing larger cap hits because they are good.

 

McAvoy is going to need a big raise before the Bruins are contending again. Sergachev also will need a raise in the middle of Tampas window. 

 

I had Sergachev above Juolevi which was not consensus, but what is not debateable is the fact Sergachev was an NHL ready body at 18 and Juolevi was not. 

 

I hope Juolevi can produce offense at a good clip in the NHL, but mostly I hope he can shutdown other top players. We need that a lot. A real 2 way d man with decent size and great transition game. 

[Warhippy]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

I was at that draft, and still can’t believe we passed on Jagr.  I thought for sure, when Quinn marched to the stage, he was going to take Jagr.

Lol that was Jagr himself.  He was very vocal about coming to north America and the conditions around it.

 

Just can't stop shaking my head at endless hindsight brigade

[GiveEmTheCan]

10 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

so I guess because Sergechev and Tkachuk is off to a faster start, people think they will be better players down the road? 

Juolevi has done nothing up until this point to prove he’d ever be better than these two down the road. The best thing thats been said about him since he’s been drafted is that he’s looked “bored.” Not exactly a ringing endorsement for a guy management bet the farm on.

[R3aL]

10 minutes ago, Derp... said:

In theory this could work in our favour because it keeps Juolevis cost low for an extra year. 2019-2020 will be last year of his ELC now. Our top 3 picks from last year will be 22 and likely contributing in the NHL as regulars or call ups on ELC. Our current crop of NHL youngsters will be 24 and up. Hopefully needing larger cap hits because they are good.

 

McAvoy is going to need a big raise before the Bruins are contending again. Sergachev also will need a raise in the middle of Tampas window. 

 

I had Sergachev above Juolevi which was not consensus, but what is not debateable is the fact Sergachev was an NHL ready body at 18 and Juolevi was not. 

 

I hope Juolevi can produce offense at a good clip in the NHL, but mostly I hope he can shutdown other top players. We need that a lot. A real 2 way d man with decent size and great transition game. 

I like your optimistic outlook.

 

We will have to be patient with Juolevi, and Finland is a great place for him to get back on track this year.

 

McAvoy would have been a big big reach at 5 for us so I have never been upset with not taking him.

 

I want to look back at the draft thread I am pretty sure Sergachev was my #1 dman to from the draft. It is just tough seeing a guy who is showing top pairing dman potential and flashes now.

 

 

[aGENT]

49 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I was referring to injuries. Meaning if Biega or wiercioch slot in to become #6. Which happens in the event of another injury or a suspension or something.

It doesn't work that way. He had to either be in the NHL playing, in Junior or over in Europe. He couldn't go to Utica and sitting in the press box is about the worst thing you could do for his devlopment.