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What's happening with this team? The new core is learning to win by themselves

*Buzzsaw*

By *Buzzsaw*
in Canucks Talk

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BlackBeard Abbotsford Regular

BlackBeard

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Funny you mention that.  In the 2015 playoffs,  The 19 year old Horvat (in his first ever post season) picked up 4 points in 6 games which matched both Danny and Hank.  But Bo played 6 min less per game than the twins and receive next to no power play time. 

consider the match pairing man. who is being focused on and who is isn't 

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chon derry Canucks Franchise Player

chon derry

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17 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Fans always second guess things. It's called being passionate about your team. 

 

The biggest issue in any business, hockey included, is doing the same things that previously got you some success when the landscape has changed. You need to adjust to that and not try to force something that is no longer working the way you hope.

this exactly...this post gets back to op's title , were seeing the sedins utilized the same way they've always been, were also witnessing the effectiveness of it drop, is it a lack of faith and trust from willy in the youth ,whats the message ? 'pay attention all you young guys there trying to do what they used to do'? the same can be said of elders utilization over used to the point of exhaustion, let the kids play !  i mean sitting on the bench witnessing the vets trying and failing being better than the young guns going out there and at least trying and failing?

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WhoseTruckWasIt Canucks Regular

WhoseTruckWasIt

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5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

No I am not  a "fantasy" guy and I watch almost every game and have so for many years. I guess the problem I have is that I compare all players to the "94" team because that was the greatest 3 months of hockey that I ever witnessed. Those that watched that series would probably agree. Those players gave everything from the 1st game of the playoffs to the last game seven.

Nazzy was good but he did not have that same drive as the 94' team and ditto for the Twins. So it seems when you watch their play. Maybe they are too nice I don't know but Hockey is a rough sport and they definitely do not play that way and it hinders them at times because of it.

The 2011 team had all the tools to win the cup but they allowed the Bruins to walk all over them and slowly take over the momentum where they didn't even put up a fight in game 7 and basically rolled over and handed them the cup. This is after they were up 2 games to none and only needed to win 2 of the next 5 games.

Not to be a dick, any more than usual, but I'd say that is a bit of a problem.  It's a different team in a differet team in a different era.  Yes, the Bruins loss was gut-wrenchingly the worst effing thing, but to lay that at the Sedins' feet, while they got brutalized and played hard, makes my stomach turn.  If we have to gets into blame, the order is: Colin Campbell, Dan O'Halloran, Jeremy Jacobs, Toronto media, Luongo, Malhotra injury, Ehrhoff injury, Hamhuis injury, Samuelsson injury, Kesler injury, Henrik's injury, Raymond's injury, Edler's injury...

 

Seriously, I truly think that if they hadn't been allowed break a dude's back with impunity we would have won game 6.  Looking further back, I really think that having Torres did us no favours in the long run....if we want to get into conjecture.

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DIBdaQUIB Canucks Franchise Player

DIBdaQUIB

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2 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

Your not helping your cause by stating that the Twins need help and cannot do it themselves. Bo on the other hand does not need any "Help" from anyone as I have seen him skate in and split the D and score on his own. Why do the Sedins not participate in shootouts again? Sorry had to throw that plug in there. ::D

It is kind of the point though, isn't it?  The twins need help to forecheck 'cause they are too slow and soft...they need help on the back check 'cause they are too slow and tend to lose their check...they need help standing up to rough stuff 'cause they won't do it themselves...now they need help scoring 'cause they can't get it done even with the man advantage.  Are these really the guys that should be captaining an NHL team?  Does this set the example for the rest of the team and teach our kids how to play in the NHL?  I have always loved the offensive wizadry of the twins and they are two of the classiest players in the game but they are not the kind of players that can elevate their game and contribute when the going gets tough.  They are unable to change the energy of a game unless they can score.  They are not the kind of leaders that you would follow into a battle...they are more like the generals sitting behind lines, sending in the troops to do their fighting.

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WhoseTruckWasIt Canucks Regular

WhoseTruckWasIt

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12 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

With how many times Toews and Kane personally victimized the Canucks in the playoffs this attempt is hilarious.

 

Even in our one good playoff run year (every other year has been a relative choke job for the most part), we almost lost to Chicago after being up 3-0 in the series. In fact, iirc Toews scored the tying goal to send game 7 to overtime with less than two minutes left.


Thanks to Luongo stopping Sharp on the PP. Otherwise it would have just been another epic playoff collapse.

You mean....with Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hossa....nothing "personal" about it. 

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messier's_elbow Canucks First-Line

messier's_elbow

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10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

These boards have been more bi-polar than usual this season, for good reason, the ups and the downs have been kinda steep.

 

I think what we are seeing is the evolution and re-structuring of the team... right before our eyes.

 

The new players spent last season watching and waiting for the Sedins to win games... players like Horvat did chip in, but it was secondary scoring.

 

This year we are seeing a new trend... that being the new players leading the team, not looking to the Sedins anymore, going out and winning games on their own.

 

Arizona game was the best example we've seen this year... the Sedins were generally invisible and didn't figure in the scoring at all.

 

To all intents and purposes, the Horvat line was the #1 line, the Granlund line was #2.

 

No knee-jerk bandwagoneers... that doesn't mean we should send the Sedins to Utica...  :rolleyes:   But it is a good trend.

 

The Sedins will remain a big offensive part of this team, and we will need to get big games from them to have any chance of reaching the playoffs.

 

But now the team has evolved to the point that if Horvat and Baertschi have a good game, the Canucks stand a good chance of winning.

 

The team is becoming offensively balanced again... which hasn't been the case since Kesler's line was capable of winning games on its own.

 

If the trend continues, it is going to make it a lot more difficult for other teams to match lines against the Canucks.  ;)

Ok fair enough, I thought I was coming into a Sedin bashing thread :rolleyes:

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ForsbergTheGreat Canucks Franchise Player

ForsbergTheGreat

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4 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

consider the match pairing man. who is being focused on and who is isn't 

Considering the icetime, line mates, experience and usage? Who was expected to produce and who wasn't?

 

Guess what.  when you are a top player, teams don't make it easy on you and come up with strategies to defend against you.  But if you can't find a way to overcome that, you don't win. 


Great leaders find ways to carry their team.  Maybe not every year, but some years nothing is going to stop them.  That's what makes some leaders a notch above the rest. 

 

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DIBdaQUIB Canucks Franchise Player

DIBdaQUIB

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11 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

Man you have a thousand excuses don't you? :rolleyes:

Yeah...as if all the top players in the league don't face top defensive opposition.  The difference is Toews, Crosby etc, rise to the occasion and find a way to contribute, usually on the scoreboard but if not, in other ways.  The Twins have to score to be a factor and they need others to do much of the heavy lifting in order for them to score.

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EdgarM Canucks First-Line

EdgarM

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2 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Not to be a dick, any more than usual, but I'd say that is a bit of a problem.  It's a different team in a differet team in a different era.  Yes, the Bruins loss was gut-wrenchingly the worst effing thing, but to lay that at the Sedins' feet, while they got brutalized and played hard, makes my stomach turn.  If we have to gets into blame, the order is: Colin Campbell, Dan O'Halloran, Jeremy Jacobs, Toronto media, Luongo, Malhotra injury, Ehrhoff injury, Hamhuis injury, Samuelsson injury, Kesler injury, Henrik's injury, Raymond's injury, Edler's injury...

 

Seriously, I truly think that if they hadn't been allowed break a dude's back with impunity we would have won game 6.  Looking further back, I really think that having Torres did us no favours in the long run....if we want to get into conjecture.

 

I totally agree with you their were many excuses that prevented winning the cup but the leading goal scorers have to score and I believe the Twins fell short in this regard no matter what they had to endure. Like another poster said, Linden had a broken nose and broken ribs but still managed to score 2 goals the next game. AND...if someone attacked my brother there is no way in hell would I stand there and do absolutely NOTHING. That has got to be hard to witness if that was my team and I was one of their team mates and I was to look up to them, But I guess they are the Sedins and they can do what ever they want.

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WhoseTruckWasIt Canucks Regular

WhoseTruckWasIt

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1 minute ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Yeah...as if all the top players in the league don't face top defensive opposition.  The difference is Toews, Crosby etc, rise to the occasion and find a way to contribute, usually on the scoreboard but if not, in other ways.  The Twins have to score to be a factor and they need others to do much of the heavy lifting in order for them to score.

Is their crime not being Toews and Crosby?  Cause I don't think even Apollo thinks they are or should be

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EdgarM Canucks First-Line

EdgarM

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9 minutes ago, smokes said:

No they are called reasons. An excuse to to accuse others of making excuses because you have no real argument to reply with.

 

I have been presenting you with FACTS dude, you are making "assumptions" which is totally different.

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