Gillis vs Benning Smackdown

[chickenman92]

I always chuckle a bit when people act like Gillis was terrible at drafting/identifying young players. The fact is, the Canucks best forward (Horvat), 2 best D (Hutton & Tanev) and best goalie (Markstrom) were all Gillis moves. 

 

Was he great at drafting, no. But I don't think he's as bad or Benning is as far ahead of Gillis as people like to think. 

[Junkyard Dog]

Gillis was good up until 2011. inherited a good core and added onto it successfully.

 

A bit after 2011 we began to freefall and he couldn't find a way to stop it. A big reason why we remained competent during these years was mainly in part of having two top notch goalies. He really messed up the goaltending situation too, trading both Luongo and Schnieder.

 

From the peak of the mountain to landing hard in the mud. It was a long and horrid process but one MG couldn't stop.

 

JB has slowly been making his way out of this mud. He has created a future at D, picked the right goalie(Markstrom over Lack) while having drafted a good goalie prospect(Demko). Our forward pools doesn't look as bright, mainly in part of building from the net out, but he will probably address this moving forward(college signings draft, etc).

 

Been trying to stay competitive which is why we are slowly making are way out of the mud we are in.

 

In short Gillis was good up until our greatest year but he couldn't transition the team properly and he couldn't make the major move(Luongo/Schnieder) when he needed to. If anything he accelerated our free fall.

 

JB is capable of transitioning this team, he has the traits to do so(drafting/scouting), but is doing so in a way that may or may not work. Rebuilding on the fly as a bubble team is hard to do. You look at a team like The Rangers who were able to add young talent(with some Luck *cough* Vesey) successfully because they already had a great team and a team that can compete at the top of the league.

 

We are fortunate to be in a crappy division but sooner or later teams will start picking up their slack. We have to know when to fold em and call it quits.

[chickenman92]

I also don't know what planet people live on when they talk about the job Benning has done with the defence and goaltending. 

 

The fact is, the Canucks have finished 19th, 23rd and are currently 25th in the NHL in GAA...that is hardly anything to get excited over. The Canucks have actually gotten worse defensively under Benning. 

[Baggins]

Even looking at the trade acquisitions i'd say Benning has the better eye for talent.

[Guest]

Right now I'd have to say Gillis was the better GM. He did inherit a great young team, yes, but I wouldn't trust GBJB to get us to the finals in 2011

[hookshott]

Wonder who Gillis would have taken with the 6th overall?  Very likely Nylander, a talented Swede who could be mentored by the Sedin's.  He and Gilman would have also looked at the big picture and realized they could send Nylander down to the AHL for one season to help his transfer into the NHL game because he had not played in the CHL....an important point our current management team did not clue into.  I am so disappointed that it appears they wasted that pick, partially by forcing an immature boy/man to play in the NHL before he was ready, and partially by selecting "meat and potatoes" as Benning described Virtanen, as opposed to skill. On top of that, it is hard not to talk about all the 2nd round choices Benning has chosen to trade away, as opposed to utilizing his supposed excellent drafting skills!

[iceman64]

4 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Can't really compare.  Gillis got the team when it was trending upward while JB got it trending downward.

 

 

 Not really, this team has trending upward but never past a medicore wanna be cup contender for most of the last 20 years and believe me when i tell you i watched it all. Entertaining hockey usually? Certainly but that's it...  Until MG and Benning came along have we even had a GM that had the "want" to make this team better by trying to make it bigger faster in the west but MG was handcuffed by the cap when he started to get each position sewn up to long term but when the cap stopped the last phase of this, he had to do with the best he had.

 

 Then with Benning stepping in, he was left with that until either trades happened, buy outs, trades, or UFA. It's still playing out now until the last of the old guard is gone and hopefully we get guys like Lucic but with really good speed to keep up to the faster teams in the league and not giving away toughness which every team needs especially in the western division. IMO this team IS finally trending UP the way things stand to play out but it will take another 2 yrs with cap space freeing up

[guntrix]

Hindsight is always 20/20. We can't say Benning is the better drafter until we see the boom/bust ratio of these prospects in a few years.

 

No doubt we were also pretty high on Gilliis' prospects back when they were looking promising. We should also hold off to see how many of Benning's drafts boom/bust. 

 

At the end of the day, not all of Benning's pick will reach the ceilings that CDC projects them as. There will be a few letdowns, as is always the case when drafting. 

 

 

[CanadianRugby]

9 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

I know that the most biggest difference between 2011 and current is that we were contenders before but we may not be too far off. 

If you look at the standings we're about 24 spots off in the standings from 2011. Doesn't get further off than that.

 

Best moves: 

 

Rebuilding our defence...

Bieksa garrison Erhoff hamhuis salo 

To 

Tanev Stecher Hutton gudbranson tryamkin 

I'd take Hamhuis & Salo pairing over any of these other guys

Creating goalie depth

 

replacing Luongo Schneider and eventually Miller from the current roster

With...

Markstrom demko garteig 

Really.. replacing 2 of the best goalies in the league with a backup and 2 prospects is one of the best moves?  That's interesting. 

Gillis vs benning era drafting

 

gillis: hodgson, sauve, rai, froshaug, clark, schroeder, rodin connauton cannata McNally Friesen gaunce Hutton horvat shinkaruk cassels subban cederholm 

 

Benning: Virtanen McCann demko Tryamkin forsling boeser brisbois zhukenov gaudette jasek Olson candela

 

(Quite the difference is high ceiling prospects)

Horvat is better than anyone on that list. 

 

-benning is clearly the better drafter

Based on what?  None of his players have made much of an impact at the NHL level.  If you're basing your opinion on potential, then there's nothing clear about it.  Benning SHOULD have more good prospects as he has one of the worst teams in the league, opposed to Gillis who had the best. 

 

BE HAPPY AND EXCITED CANUCKS FANS BECAUSE AT LEAST WE DIDNT TAKE 10 YEARS TO IMPROVE OUR TEAM.

CANUCKS ARE 25TH IN THE LEAGUE STANDINGS. 

 

[orcasgonewild]

7 hours ago, OptionalPants said:

 

And who has Benning drafted for us so far that has made an impact in the NHL? Considering Gillis was mostly working with late draft picks and less draft picks (since we were a contending team), I feel the difference between their drafting abilities have been blown way out of proportion.

TIME will tell. Horvat and Hutton didn't make an impact as soon as they were drafted. Every prospect needs to develop.

 

And your Gillis had late draft picks excuse is weak, gaudette subban Olson demko Tryamkin lockwood brisbois zhukenov are all talented and they all look promising.

 

Jim benning>>>> Gillis 

 

I feel I like u are Gillis... who else makes a waffle their pic anyways 

[orcasgonewild]

3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

 

I don't think you know what your talking about buddy... 

 

Such a negative Nancy

[CanadianRugby]

2 minutes ago, orcasgonewild said:

TIME will tell. Horvat and Hutton didn't make an impact as soon as they were drafted. Every prospect needs to develop.

 

And your Gillis had late draft picks excuse is weak, gaudette subban Olson demko Tryamkin lockwood brisbois zhukenov are all talented and they all look promising.

 

Jim benning>>>> Gillis 

 

I feel I like u are Gillis... who else makes a waffle their pic anyways 

Yes time will tell about his draft picks..

..wait. Time won't tell? 

 

Benning is the worst Canuck GM (IMO) in the 25 years I've watched this team.

Awful at trading

Awful at team direction

Awful at contract negotiations

Time will tell, on drafting

[bobbyg43]

A little premature for poll at this stage

When Benning wins 2 Presidents trophys an restocks  farm with quality legitimate prospects .he may then get the nod . Right now he is skating uphill on a tilted ice.

[Hugor Hill]

The best thing Gillis did was cap management.

And the Ehrhoff trade.

[cripplereh]

Benning is way better a GM then Gillis

 

Only thing Gillis did was keep the team together for a cup run,but then not breaking it up and giving to many bad contracts

[Mathew Barzal]

Forget smackdown, what about a Gillis-Benning duo.

 

Co-GM's. Fk ya bud

[Me_]

Gillis inherited a team on the rise from Burke.

 

Benning inherited a team on the decline from Gillis.

[Grumpy Canuckat]

Gillis came in and built the best team ever in Vancouver.  

 

Benning came in with the task to rebuild the Canucks.  If he turns this team into one of the best in the league, he would have done more than Gillis.  

 

Right now his biggest accomplishment is rebuilding our D.  But it cost prospects and draft picks to do it and it's a very one dimensional  (defensively good offensively bad) group.  He's partly sacrificed the future for success now and that's been his biggest failure, as there's been no on ice results.  

 

To even be a moderate success some of Bennings top picks/prospects need to pan out.  As he's now had 4 1st round picks and none have had an impact on the NHL level (yet).

 

So 2-3 years from now Benning could be better than Gillis.  As of right now there's no argument for Benning.  

[Phat Fingers]

18 hours ago, OptionalPants said:

 

And who has Benning drafted for us so far that has made an impact in the NHL? Considering Gillis was mostly working with late draft picks and less draft picks (since we were a contending team), I feel the difference between their drafting abilities have been blown way out of proportion.

 

That's a straw man arguement. Benning has had 3 drafts. He already has two defenders Trymakin, Stecher (3 if you count Forsling) 4 if you count trading McCann for Guddy, playing NHL minutes. Plus Juolevi in the wings.  Gillis has only two defenders Tanev, Hutton, playing minutes for his tenure.  

 

Gillis has two forwards, Horvat, Gaunce, playing NHL minutes and one huge bust (Hodgson) for his tenure.  Rodin may also turn out, JB is on track to beat that sum already. 

 

 Although more time is needed, does anyone doubt that Virtannen, Boeser, McCann (Now Guddy) and Lockwood will play NHL minutes, plus others.

 

Gillis signed Lack, but did not draft a goalie to play NHL minutes.  Demko is the heir apparent and Gartieg looks promissing.

 

That is in 3 drafts.  So let's compare spots. 

 

Benning had a 6th, 23rd and 5th so far.  So two top ten and late first. Gillis had a 9th, 10th and some late 1st's.  Two top ten picks.  JB only benefitted an average of 4 draft spots over Gillis for his high round picks. 

 

Going forward, JB will likely get a few more early picks, but that doesn't disprove he is a far better drafter than Gillis.  Benning has made a late 1st look like a top ten pick, (Boeser) found gold the 2nd (Demko), 3rd (Trymakin, Lockwood) and the one that got away in the 5th, (Forsling). 

 

 

The last one looks bad, but the current league goal leader is Grabner, one Gillis let walk to keep Raymond.  How does that look now?  

 

Gillis did some really great things early on as a GM, better than Benning, but to argue that he is a better drafter, or equal to Benning is daft.  

 

EW

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

18 hours ago, chon derry said:

not trying to defend gillis but he never really had good draft positioning in any given year ,relative to the teams success. who he picked with low availability remains questionable ,but hind site being 20/20.........

 

Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012 Entry	26	1	Brendan Gaunce	L	Belleville Bulls [OHL]	44	1	2	3	22
2012 Entry	57	2	Alexandre Mallet	C	Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]
2012 Entry	147	5	Ben Hutton	D	Nepean Raiders [CCHL]	99	4	28	32	26
2012 Entry	177	6	Wesley Myron	F	Victoria Grizzlies [BCHL]
2012 Entry	207	7	Matthew Beattie	R	Exeter [N.H. H.S.]
2011 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2011 Entry	29	1	Nicklas Jensen	R	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	24	3	3	6	10
2011 Entry	71	3	David Honzik	G	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2011 Entry	90	3	Alexandre Grenier	R	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	6	0	0	0	2
2011 Entry	101	4	Joe Labate	L	Holy Angels Academy (Minn.)	3	0	0	0	7
2011 Entry	120	4	Ludwig Blomstrand	L	Djurgarden Jrs. (Sweden)
2011 Entry	150	5	Frankie Corrado	D	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]	68	3	5	8	32
2011 Entry	180	6	Pathrik Westerholm	L	Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1]
2011 Entry	210	7	Henrik Tommernes	D	Frolunda HC [SEL]
2010 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2010 Entry	115	4	Patrick McNally	D	Milton Academy [Mass.]
2010 Entry	145	5	Adam Polasek	D	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]
2010 Entry	172	6	Alex Friesen	C	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2010 Entry	175	6	Jonathan Iilahti	G	Blues Jrs (Finland)
2010 Entry	205	7	Sawyer Hannay	D	Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]
2009 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2009 Entry	22	1	Jordan Schroeder	C	U. of Minnesota [WCHA]	109	11	16	27	10
2009 Entry	53	2	Anton Rodin	R	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)
2009 Entry	83	3	Kevin Connauton	D	Western Michigan University [CCHA]	170	15	32	47	117
2009 Entry	113	4	Jeremy Price	D	Nepean Raiders [CJHL]
2009 Entry	143	5	Peter Andersson	D	Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)
2009 Entry	173	6	Joe Cannata	G	Merrimack College [H-East]
2009 Entry	187	7	Steven Anthony	L	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2008 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2008 Entry	10	1	Cody Hodgson	C	Brampton Battalion [OHL]	328	64	78	142	68
2008 Entry	41	2	Yann Sauve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	8	0	0	0	0
2008 Entry	131	5	Prabh Rai	C	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2008 Entry	161	6	Mats Josten-Froshaug	C	Linkoping Jr. [Sweden]
2008 Entry	191	7	Morgan Clark	G	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]

 

ah, prabh rai, back when, literally every brown kid on this forum came out and threw out the red carpet for that guy XD