Canucks' Team Toughness

[kingofsurrey]

16 hours ago, King Heffy said:

You need toughness around while the skill develops or you have injuries.  To be honest I'd bring in John Scott as a depth guy.  Sure, he's not a highly skilled guy but he's still a better defenseman than Larsen, can stick up for teammates, and is a good character guy in the room.

He is NHL all-star game MVP as well.....

[Nuxfanabroad]

Scott, Tie Domi or Chris Nilan..let's do this!!!

[Harvey Spector]

3 hours ago, Bad_Dog said:

TEAM TOUGHNESS......... there is none and other teams know it! Yes, Dorsett has the heart and soul but he is NOT feared or a heavy weight by any means. We have no defenseman that have that edge and want to clear the front of the net and in fact most of them look like they are very intimidated....       IE: EDLER. Other teams players know they can just park themselves in front of our net and with no repercussions and in fact its embarrassing to watch.

 

I think Edler is the worst, and that guy has to go. He appears to actually get out of the way of opposing players or, stand right in front of our goalie and screen the heck out of him all the time. Defenseman  are supposed to clear the front of the net and cover their man and hopefully move the puck out their end and play tough and make it a miserable place to be when the opposing players get in their kitchen.All our defenseman are too polite and not punishing the opposing players plain and simple.

 

I am not advocating goonery, just a some defense with a purpose and passion, and a willingness to play it tough both physically, and mentally. It must be a nightmare playing goal for our goalies with a defense core like we have.

 

Our defense is way too soft and we will continue to be in trouble if its not addressed.Would loved to have a guy like big buff from Sergej Milinkovic-Savic Jets but oh well. I personally believe none of our players will play to their potential until the Canucks management wise up and balance this team with players with size, and an edge, which in turn  make some of are more skilled players play bigger and more comfortable. We need guys like a Lucic, Ferland, yes, Kassian etc... to balance the team out out. Hell, I would even prefer Marchand at this point(as much as I can't stand him), but I got to say that even though he is not the biggest player, the guy plays big, with heart and passion, and willing to get into the dirty areas.He doesn't shy away is more than I can say for a lot of our forwards. So, until we balance this team of ours with skill, and team toughness it will always be the same old excuses, and bull$&!# end results .I think Linden, and Benning is also to be held accountable for this un balanced sorry ass state we are in. Fire Linden and Benning, bring in Crawford to coach and light a fire and instill passion, and get rid Edler and some of our soft forwards (and we have many), and bring in some toughness!!!! 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Harvey Spector

[Bad_Dog]

45 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

He is NHL all-star game MVP as well.....

I would be good with that acquisition. (Scott).   **** TAKE NOTE LINDEN AND BENNING ***** YOUR WAY AND THOUGHT PROCESS IS NOT CUTTING IT.

[kingofsurrey]

I know exactly what our team needs..

 

True Grit  .  True Warrior.   

 

True ultimate TEAMMate

 

This is what our team needs.....  I don't care when you tell me the game / nhl has changed to a speed game.

Thats crap.    Looking after team mates and grit hard to play against is still a huge part of the game....

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by kingofsurrey

[Sweathog]

I think when we  finally get rid of the Sedins and Edler, and give the leadership to guys like Gudbranson and Horvat, it'll go a long way in changing the tough mentality of this team. They need to get rid of Edler in a hurry, I don't like the idea of someone so nonchalant and soft as him mentoring our kids. I know it won't be enough but it's a start.

 

I'm pretty sure Benning is aware though that we're not nearly as tough as we need to be in order to contend. My guess is that he's primarily focusing of skill at the moment as its one of the hardest elements to aquire. Once that is largely achieved, his main focus will be to make this team a lot tougher.

[Salacious Crumb]

4 minutes ago, Sweathog said:

I think when we  finally get rid of the Sedins and Edler, and give the leadership to guys like Gudbranson and Horvat, it'll go a long way in changing the tough mentality of this team. They need to get rid of Edler in a hurry, I don't like the idea of someone so nonchalant and soft as him mentoring our kids. I know it won't be enough but it's a start.

Agree. Although not a hater of the twins the lack of even giving the old Geoff Courtnall facewash just as the linesman shows up has always bugged me. When Linden was captain he got facepunched a couple of times because it was the right thing to do.

 

Knowing Bo, Ben and Tryamkin all dropped the gloves this season gives hope that we will be tougher to play against in the future. Hopefully Gudbranson can fill the void left by Bieksa. Edler used to be a devastating hitter, perhaps with more toughness in the lineup he gets a little more of that back in his game.

[J-23]

1 hour ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Agree. Although not a hater of the twins the lack of even giving the old Geoff Courtnall facewash just as the linesman shows up has always bugged me. When Linden was captain he got facepunched a couple of times because it was the right thing to do.

 

Knowing Bo, Ben and Tryamkin all dropped the gloves this season gives hope that we will be tougher to play against in the future. Hopefully Gudbranson can fill the void left by Bieksa. Edler used to be a devastating hitter, perhaps with more toughness in the lineup he gets a little more of that back in his game.

I think we need a physical hit leader to get the team going in hits. Like Torres, and Kesler were for us. The team followed there lead and played physical as a group, Edler was destroying people. Hopefully Jake and Guddy can take this team into that direction, like Maroon, Kassian and Nurse have taken Edmonton into a physical direction.

[stanleysteamersmyl]

Boyle and Martin 4th liners- each had two points tonight, Leafs win.

[terrible.dee]

13 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Agree. Although not a hater of the twins the lack of even giving the old Geoff Courtnall facewash just as the linesman shows up has always bugged me. When Linden was captain he got facepunched a couple of times because it was the right thing to do.

 

Knowing Bo, Ben and Tryamkin all dropped the gloves this season gives hope that we will be tougher to play against in the future. Hopefully Gudbranson can fill the void left by Bieksa. Edler used to be a devastating hitter, perhaps with more toughness in the lineup he gets a little more of that back in his game.

 

 

 

It's true that back in the day Linden, Courtnall, Adams  all these guys would have one or two fights a year, back in the day nearly every Canuck would go if he had to, even  Ronning who was really small had a reputation, not for fighting but for stickwork, if you came after him he would spear or slash you in a heartbeat, he HAD to or he never would have made the NHL at his size,

 

Back then you were tested, EVERYONE was tested and if it was know you wouldn't defend yourself you were eaten alive, verry few player got a pass on that, and only real superstars got it: Gretzky, Turgeon, Craig Janney was know to be an assist machine when he came into the league so he got a body guard as well, and that was the other thing, if you had one of those guys he needed a body guard at all times, like Bure when he was assigned Gino, Bure was smart though and got his own reputation going with the Shane Churla elbow, people were careful comming up to hit Bure because if they didn't get knocked out with the Elbow then Gino was there to do the honors

 

I laugh when I think what would have happened to Brad Marchand if Gino had been around......or anyone for that matter, Ronning would have broken his ankle with a slash

 

It seems odd to me that we went into that regular season game with the Bruins with only DALE FRIGGING WEISE to fight back with, all due respect to Dale, who is a decent player and a tough guy, but he's not a great fighter and doesn't scare anyone

 

But here's the kicker, you can't have those guys on the fourth line anymore, you need the toughness on the FIRST line the FIRST pairing because THOSE are the guys who are on the ice and define your team, I don't think you spend your top pick looking for toughness Virtannen is proving that, but from the 2nd round on, I wouldn't mind if Trev and Benning focused in on some guys who not only fight, but might actually SCARE some people, it's those guys that stop the other teams from picking on you like Boston and Toronto do to us

 

And lastly, when you get these guys you don't hire a coach that blabs on and on: "Don't take penalties NEVER TAKE PENELTIES" I always say, penelties are to be killed not avoided, sometimes you have to turn the guys loose and they shouldn't be afraid to make a statement or benched when they do, I hope Green realizes that this team could use a couple of line brawls to repair it's reputation

 

And BTW Linden was by no means a great fighter but he did a lot better than "getting face punched" He holds victories over Shaun Avery, Rob Ray (seriously, he also got the instigator and broke a knuckle on ray's face, defending Messier believe it or not) A draw with Keith Tkachuk and averaged a little over a fight a season in his career, he was like a Jannik Hansen type of fighter, didn't scare anyone and it wasn't his role but if the bell rang Linden was there. And I think that's the biggest problem with the team, not that we don't have some super heavyweight but that as a team there aren't enough players like Hansen or Linden, regular players who knew exactly when and where it was necessary for them to show up. The opposite of that would be the Kesler Bieksa type fighters, those guys (Especially Bieksa) ARE good fighters but it seemed they only dropped the gloves for selfish reasons, if someone pissed THEM off they fought, not the best way to establish team toughness,

 

Wen I think about that elusive team toughness quality I think of two things as the best examples: Linden charging in to fight Rob Ray when he slashed Messier and Hansen going right after Kadri , Riley had just leveled him with a hip check but Kadri crossed the line with some other play (Can't remember) and Jannik went right after him, in both cases ZERO HESITATION, those are the kind of fights, regard less of outcome that builds your team a reputation, and makes the Marchands think twice

 

Come to think about it, I can't EVER remember Beiksa or Kessler fighting to defend teamates, and they certainly never helped the twins out if they were being targeted, I remember several occasions the Twins were being abused and Beiksa did nothing, I remember Mark Methot knocking Henrik out of a game once and the out of town commentators were confused as to why Beiksa, who they had heard so much about, wasn't doing anything, those guys were useless as far as team toughness went

Edited April 16, 2017 by terrible.dee

[Boudrias]

13 minutes ago, terrible.dee said:

It's true that back in the day Linden, Courtnall, Adams  all these guys would have one or two fights a year, back in the day nearly every Canuck would go if he had to, even  Ronning who was really small had a reputation, not for fighting but for stickwork, if you came after him he would spear or slash you in a heartbeat, he HAD to or he never would have made the NHL at his size,

 

Back then you were tested, EVERYONE was tested and if it was know you wouldn't defend yourself you were eaten alive, verry few player got a pass on that, and only real superstars got it: Gretzky, Turgeon, Craig Janney was know to be an assist machine when he came into the league so he got a body guard as well, and that was the other thing, if you had one of those guys he needed a body guard at all times, like Bure when he was assigned Gino, Bure was smart though and got his own reputation going with the Shane Churla elbow, people were careful comming up to hit Bure because if they didn't get knocked out with the Elbow then Gino was there to do the honors

 

I laugh when I think what would have happened to Brad Marchand if Gino had been around......or anyone for that matter, Ronning would have broken his ankle with a slash

 

It seems odd to me that we went into that regular season game with the Bruins with only DALE FRIGGING WEISE to fight back with, all due respect to Dale, who is a decent player and a tough guy, but he's not a great fighter and doesn't scare anyone

 

But here's the kicker, you can't have those guys on the fourth line anymore, you need the toughness on the FIRST line the FIRST pairing because THOSE are the guys who are on the ice and define your team, I don't think you spend your top pick looking for toughness Virtannen is proving that, but from the 2nd round on, I wouldn't mind if Trev and Benning focused in on some guys who not only fight, but might actually SCARE some people, it's those guys that stop the other teams from picking on you like Boston and Toronto do to us

 

And lastly, when you get these guys you don't hire a coach that blabs on and on: "Don't take penalties NEVER TAKE PENELTIES" I always say, penelties are to be killed not avoided, sometimes you have to turn the guys loose and they shouldn't be afraid to make a statement or benched when they do, I hope Green realizes that this team could use a couple of line brawls to repair it's reputation

Nice job!

[terrible.dee]

11 hours ago, J-23 said:

I think we need a physical hit leader to get the team going in hits. Like Torres, and Kesler were for us. The team followed there lead and played physical as a group, Edler was destroying people. Hopefully Jake and Guddy can take this team into that direction, like Maroon, Kassian and Nurse have taken Edmonton into a physical direction.

 

I don't remember Kesler hitting at all, he would irritate people with hacks and whacks but hitting? I don't remember that at all.

 

And Gudbransson never has and never will be an NHL hitter, he doesn't have the skill, he is useless as an in game physical presence and only able to do anything after the whistle, he can't initiate only react, so people need to drop the idea that Gudbransson can do any more than push shove and threaten to kill people, once the game is being played, he has no idea what the hell is going on

[EdgarM]

53 minutes ago, terrible.dee said:

It's true that back in the day Linden, Courtnall, Adams  all these guys would have one or two fights a year, back in the day nearly every Canuck would go if he had to, even  Ronning who was really small had a reputation, not for fighting but for stickwork, if you came after him he would spear or slash you in a heartbeat, he HAD to or he never would have made the NHL at his size,

 

Back then you were tested, EVERYONE was tested and if it was know you wouldn't defend yourself you were eaten alive, verry few player got a pass on that, and only real superstars got it: Gretzky, Turgeon, Craig Janney was know to be an assist machine when he came into the league so he got a body guard as well, and that was the other thing, if you had one of those guys he needed a body guard at all times, like Bure when he was assigned Gino, Bure was smart though and got his own reputation going with the Shane Churla elbow, people were careful comming up to hit Bure because if they didn't get knocked out with the Elbow then Gino was there to do the honors

 

I laugh when I think what would have happened to Brad Marchand if Gino had been around......or anyone for that matter, Ronning would have broken his ankle with a slash

 

It seems odd to me that we went into that regular season game with the Bruins with only DALE FRIGGING WEISE to fight back with, all due respect to Dale, who is a decent player and a tough guy, but he's not a great fighter and doesn't scare anyone

 

But here's the kicker, you can't have those guys on the fourth line anymore, you need the toughness on the FIRST line the FIRST pairing because THOSE are the guys who are on the ice and define your team, I don't think you spend your top pick looking for toughness Virtannen is proving that, but from the 2nd round on, I wouldn't mind if Trev and Benning focused in on some guys who not only fight, but might actually SCARE some people, it's those guys that stop the other teams from picking on you like Boston and Toronto do to us

 

And lastly, when you get these guys you don't hire a coach that blabs on and on: "Don't take penalties NEVER TAKE PENELTIES" I always say, penelties are to be killed not avoided, sometimes you have to turn the guys loose and they shouldn't be afraid to make a statement or benched when they do, I hope Green realizes that this team could use a couple of line brawls to repair it's reputation

 

And BTW Linden was by no means a great fighter but he did a lot better than "getting face punched" He holds victories over Shaun Avery, Rob Ray (seriously, he also got the instigator and broke a knuckle on ray's face, defending Messier believe it or not) A draw with Keith Tkachuk and averaged a little over a fight a season in his career, he was like a Jannik Hansen type of fighter, didn't scare anyone and it wasn't his role but if the bell rang Linden was there. And I think that's the biggest problem with the team, not that we don't have some super heavyweight but that as a team there aren't enough players like Hansen or Linden, regular players who knew exactly when and where it was necessary for them to show up. The opposite of that would be the Kesler Bieksa type fighters, those guys (Especially Bieksa) ARE good fighters but it seemed they only dropped the gloves for selfish reasons, if someone pissed THEM off they fought, not the best way to establish team toughness,

 

Wen I think about that elusive team toughness quality I think of two things as the best examples: Linden charging in to fight Rob Ray when he slashed Messier and Hansen going right after Kadri , Riley had just leveled him with a hip check but Kadri crossed the line with some other play (Can't remember) and Jannik went right after him, in both cases ZERO HESITATION, those are the kind of fights, regard less of outcome that builds your team a reputation, and makes the Marchands think twice

 

Come to think about it, I can't EVER remember Beiksa or Kessler fighting to defend teamates, and they certainly never helped the twins out if they were being targeted, I remember several occasions the Twins were being abused and Beiksa did nothing, I remember Mark Methot knocking Henrik out of a game once and the out of town commentators were confused as to why Beiksa, who they had heard so much about, wasn't doing anything, those guys were useless as far as team toughness went

+1. I was thinking the same thing about todays "hockey players". What happened to those who not only stick up for their team mates but also their selves. Watching Kassian the other night "running over" the competition reminded me of play off games of old. Too many times over the past recent years I have watched numerous Canuck players manhandled and absolutely nothing happened to the instigator(s).

We seem to have a couple of players who may have the ability to "put up a fight", the problem or concern is, are they willing to or wanting to?

[terrible.dee]

14 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

+1. I was thinking the same thing about todays "hockey players". What happened to those who not only stick up for their team mates but also their selves. Watching Kassian the other night "running over" the competition reminded me of play off games of old. Too many times over the past recent years I have watched numerous Canuck players manhandled and absolutely nothing happened to the instigator(s).

We seem to have a couple of players who may have the ability to "put up a fight", the problem or concern is, are they willing to or wanting to?

 

Or are they ALLOWED to might be a better question, we've become one of those borring stuffy "We have to stay out of the box" teams

 

Why do you need to stay out of the box? no one taught you to kill penalties? 

 

Also, some would-be fighters might be worried that if things get rolling the'll be on thier own with no back up., that is NEVER a good feeling

[EdgarM]

Just now, terrible.dee said:

Or are they ALLOWED to might be a better question, we've become one of those borring stuffy "We have to stay out of the box" teams

 

Why do you need to stay out of the box? no one taught you to kill penalties? 

 

Also, some would-be fighters might be worried that if things get rolling the'll be on thier own with no back up., that is NEVER a good feeling

Good point. Edler used to hit, Sbisa used to hit and even Tryampkin was laying some big ones when he first arrived. Makes sense since we have had Gudbranson and Dorsett out for most of the season.

[riffraff]

50 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

+1. I was thinking the same thing about todays "hockey players". What happened to those who not only stick up for their team mates but also their selves. Watching Kassian the other night "running over" the competition reminded me of play off games of old. Too many times over the past recent years I have watched numerous Canuck players manhandled and absolutely nothing happened to the instigator(s).

We seem to have a couple of players who may have the ability to "put up a fight", the problem or concern is, are they willing to or wanting to?

Haley will be dressed for the next game at home for the sharks.

[Salacious Crumb]

1 hour ago, terrible.dee said:

It's true that back in the day Linden, Courtnall, Adams  all these guys would have one or two fights a year, back in the day nearly every Canuck would go if he had to, even  Ronning who was really small had a reputation, not for fighting but for stickwork, if you came after him he would spear or slash you in a heartbeat, he HAD to or he never would have made the NHL at his size,

 

Back then you were tested, EVERYONE was tested and if it was know you wouldn't defend yourself you were eaten alive, verry few player got a pass on that, and only real superstars got it: Gretzky, Turgeon, Craig Janney was know to be an assist machine when he came into the league so he got a body guard as well, and that was the other thing, if you had one of those guys he needed a body guard at all times, like Bure when he was assigned Gino, Bure was smart though and got his own reputation going with the Shane Churla elbow, people were careful comming up to hit Bure because if they didn't get knocked out with the Elbow then Gino was there to do the honors

 

I laugh when I think what would have happened to Brad Marchand if Gino had been around......or anyone for that matter, Ronning would have broken his ankle with a slash

 

It seems odd to me that we went into that regular season game with the Bruins with only DALE FRIGGING WEISE to fight back with, all due respect to Dale, who is a decent player and a tough guy, but he's not a great fighter and doesn't scare anyone

 

But here's the kicker, you can't have those guys on the fourth line anymore, you need the toughness on the FIRST line the FIRST pairing because THOSE are the guys who are on the ice and define your team, I don't think you spend your top pick looking for toughness Virtannen is proving that, but from the 2nd round on, I wouldn't mind if Trev and Benning focused in on some guys who not only fight, but might actually SCARE some people, it's those guys that stop the other teams from picking on you like Boston and Toronto do to us

 

And lastly, when you get these guys you don't hire a coach that blabs on and on: "Don't take penalties NEVER TAKE PENELTIES" I always say, penelties are to be killed not avoided, sometimes you have to turn the guys loose and they shouldn't be afraid to make a statement or benched when they do, I hope Green realizes that this team could use a couple of line brawls to repair it's reputation

 

And BTW Linden was by no means a great fighter but he did a lot better than "getting face punched" He holds victories over Shaun Avery, Rob Ray (seriously, he also got the instigator and broke a knuckle on ray's face, defending Messier believe it or not) A draw with Keith Tkachuk and averaged a little over a fight a season in his career, he was like a Jannik Hansen type of fighter, didn't scare anyone and it wasn't his role but if the bell rang Linden was there. And I think that's the biggest problem with the team, not that we don't have some super heavyweight but that as a team there aren't enough players like Hansen or Linden, regular players who knew exactly when and where it was necessary for them to show up. The opposite of that would be the Kesler Bieksa type fighters, those guys (Especially Bieksa) ARE good fighters but it seemed they only dropped the gloves for selfish reasons, if someone pissed THEM off they fought, not the best way to establish team toughness,

 

Wen I think about that elusive team toughness quality I think of two things as the best examples: Linden charging in to fight Rob Ray when he slashed Messier and Hansen going right after Kadri , Riley had just leveled him with a hip check but Kadri crossed the line with some other play (Can't remember) and Jannik went right after him, in both cases ZERO HESITATION, those are the kind of fights, regard less of outcome that builds your team a reputation, and makes the Marchands think twice

 

Come to think about it, I can't EVER remember Beiksa or Kessler fighting to defend teamates, and they certainly never helped the twins out if they were being targeted, I remember several occasions the Twins were being abused and Beiksa did nothing, I remember Mark Methot knocking Henrik out of a game once and the out of town commentators were confused as to why Beiksa, who they had heard so much about, wasn't doing anything, those guys were useless as far as team toughness went

Nice post dee. I remember when we had the s.o.b. line - Strudwick, Odjick and Brashear. The good old days of bench clearing brawls were awesome. Having said that the kind of toughness I miss is the heart that Ohlund showed. He got into a couple of fights (once when he had a bad flu) with Iggy knowing that he would lose. Yes Olly was strong as an Ox but Iggy was definitely the better scrapper. My original point was that the twins don't offer any pushback when even Gretzky and Lemieux each got into several fights (or at least got 5 minute majors for 'fighting').

[EdgarM]

1 minute ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Nice post dee. I remember when we had the s.o.b. line - Strudwick, Odjick and Brashear. The good old days of bench clearing brawls were awesome. Having said that the kind of toughness I miss is the heart that Ohlund showed. He got into a couple of fights (once when he had a bad flu) with Iggy knowing that he would lose. Yes Olly was strong as an Ox but Iggy was definitely the better scrapper. My original point was that the twins don't offer any pushback when even Gretzky and Lemieux each got into several fights (or at least got 5 minute majors for 'fighting').

I always thought that was part of the game. If I want to watch a "gentlemanly' game I would watch "roller hockey"  or "ringette".

[I.Am.Ironman]

The reality is that in today's game you need the "tough" guys that can also skate, shoot, pass, defend, hit and score. The tough guys that can play. Those players are relatively few and far between. I would guess that there are probably 15-20 players like that in the NHL and three of them play on Edmonton. Fighting isn't as big a part in the playoffs as it is in the regular season so I think the need for someone who can fight is debatable. Although I think there is value of the threat being there. In the playoffs though, it is all about the end result - the score over 7 games. A degree of "heaviness" can certainly wear your opposition down over a 7 game series if used properly in the game plan but having a john scott out there for 6 mins/night isn't going to help you win a series.

[terrible.dee]

31 minutes ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Nice post dee. I remember when we had the s.o.b. line - Strudwick, Odjick and Brashear. The good old days of bench clearing brawls were awesome. Having said that the kind of toughness I miss is the heart that Ohlund showed. He got into a couple of fights (once when he had a bad flu) with Iggy knowing that he would lose. Yes Olly was strong as an Ox but Iggy was definitely the better scrapper. My original point was that the twins don't offer any pushback when even Gretzky and Lemieux each got into several fights (or at least got 5 minute majors for 'fighting').

 

Ohlund is an interesting story in that after several years in the league and not fighting he made a conscious decision halfway through his career that he needed it as part of his game (Probably with the big hits he was throwing he was sick of having guys come after him and expecting him to turtle) I was sitting right by the glass for his first fight, it was against Chris Kunitz who was with the Ducks at the time. Ohlund laid a monster hit (can't remember if it was on Kunitz or not) turned around and with the angriest face I'd ever seen him make yelled "Come on!" to no one in particular, he just wanted to fight SOMEONE and get his feet wet I guess, so Kunitz rolled up and....well, it was his first fight, didn't matter that he lost after that things were noticeably different for him, he fought maybe twice a year give or take but he never backed off again and on a couple of occasions went looking for the fight........you know I just realized something, the Iginla fight your talking about was in the playoffs no? at the end of a game? I seem to remember THAT was the tipping point for him, it was in the following preseason he started fighting, I may be remembering this wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the way it happened, anyway Ohlund's "Soft Swede" rep (and near Ulf Samuelsson, Vladamir Konstantinov dirty hitter rep) was gone over night, as soon as he started backing up his hits no one ever accused him of being dirty again, and he was always talked about as someone not to mess with by opposition commentators, he wasn't a great fighter by any means, but the way players treated him changed drastically.