Cannot Mis-Management Review.

[Baggins]

13 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

And what were the draft players 2 and 3 years ago? Once he started moving Garrison out he should have approached Bieksa and the Sedins at least to get them ready for the idea.

One he did THIS year, it was a signal for the "tank", but of course it is 2 and 3 years too late.

Vrbata, good player, older but didn't move him in time, also capped out so out of the trade market. Clause contract

Miller, good this year but again too much, he didn't want to go anywhere but the west coast so he could have signed for less. Clause contract

Dorsett, good energetic team guy, but at almost 3 mil a year.

Sbisa, 3.6 mil for a 4/5/6 dman.

Sutter, okay 3rd line center on this team 2nd line at 4.375 mil, Clause contract

Eriksson....really need to explain again, Clause contract

Retained .5 mil on Hansen's contract? why? Screws up the team's ability to retain two. Sedins next TDL maybe.

Why double Baertschi's contract?  

Tanev, very decent priced contract but Clause contract

 

Now cap problems

 

Horvat, how much? Sven numbers? Double? Triple? Selling him a face of the franchise so 5+ mil.

Hutton, already add another 2 mil

Markstrom goes up 2 mil

Miller, who knows, over paid to begin with so lets say around 4+ mil

Gudbranson, was at 3.75 mil already, on TV commercials, Tryamkin gone, 5 to 6 mil/season, lots of leverage now.

plus whatever increases the other 7 contracts get

And if the first pick is good enough to get on the team, possible 3+ mil with bonuses.

 

projected cap space from capfriendly - 16 players signed, 10 more needed 17.6 mil. If Bo and Gudbranson get 10 mil of that..... 

Are you a 13 year old girl? I'm really curious because I remember what my daughter was like around that age.

[D.B Cooper]

14 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Negative thread, definitely, the team is 29th and not getting better they are losing top prospects, giving away draft picks, signing little players not likely to have an impact in the playoffs, getting "softer", letting players dictate direction of the team, increasing ticket prices, over paying old players, creating cap problems handcuffing trades or signings, poor draft selections, not providing fan confidence by communicating what the goal of the team is, outright lying that they are happy with the teams progress, to the bottom?, telling the gullible the team is in better shape,

 

April through June 2014, Everyone is signed

 

One week after Benning, the complex Kesler deal - Benning is heralded, reality, he parachuted into a deal put together by Kesler's agent and Gillis's old braintrust.

The draft, the first pick is a bomb so far but a few gems in the later rounds namely the Chara replacement Tryamkin, really Benning fresh from Boston and knowing the Boston draft plan, selects from both scouting reports.

Signs 32 yr old Vrbata, 34 yr old Miller, jettisons the old man, 29 yr old Garrison and his home town discount with NTC, does not honor contract. Makes the team older. Trades away several draft picks for AHLer's and other team's castaways and smaller problem players.

 

No Canuck management group has survived this kind of free fall and mis-management, without the loser point, this may be the worst Canuck team in it's history. Over the last three years this team has received a number of additional loser points and over time points in the standings, around 40 or so.

 

So now what? Trading Tryamkin's rights to Boston? Trading for some overpaid under performing forward like Oshie from Buffalo? Those are Benning's old clubs and he seems to like his buddies. Trading draft picks for more AHLer's. You know for sure they will buy dirt and call it gold to the fans, get their tame media and employees to champion whatever half measures and there are some suckers that don't bother to "think" for themselves and just follow.

 

All this "positive" karma around the team right now makes the next 3 months crucial to the survival of this mis-management group. The shine is off the penny, the slack offered to the good name of Linden has shortened.

 

Just looking at the results of this mess there is no way any poster or fan can accuse the owners of meddling, they haven't paid enough attention.

 

The Toronto Maple Laffs.

The Edmonton Coilers

And now

The Vancouver Cannots

 

This team is not being laughed at in the league anymore, they aren't a joke anymore, they are a lesson. 

 

I'll be back to give you a minus later. 

In the meantime, ill leave this here for you. 

http://m.wikihow.com/Tie-a-Noose

 

things aren't so bad. 

The world is a beautiful place.  

The team is rebuilding. It will take time, but no need to fill your pampers. 

[CeeBee51]

Sweet ...... got to use my minus early this fine morning.   Unless La Guardian starts another stupid thread I can come back and minus this one all summer.  My life has purpose again 

[MJDDawg]

5 hours ago, soshified said:

standing wise, yes. But look at whats happening in like Florida for example. They have better players, but man, what a gong show there right now

Don't forget Buffalo, LA., Detroit, Dallas,  all these teams that look like they should win, but aren't and can't. 

 

It's so easy for Canuck fans to vent about a rebuild, but people have to realize that after nearly a decade of having a competitive team, the downswing was bound to happen. It happens to ALL teams after a period of success. 

 

It's not easy to win and stay competitive over a long period in this league, but we had it real gud for a long time. This is the beginning of the teams' low point in the cycle. A time to ditch the deadwood, draft some good prospects, develop them, hope the team can get back to respectability sooner rather than later and just try to enjoy watching the kids on the the ride back up the standings at some point.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to just enjoy supporting my team and hope success comes sooner rather than later. The losses now will make success taste that much sweeter later. 

 

Reading posts like those from TheGuardian is like listening to someone always complaining about the rain.

 

 

[DSVII]

3 hours ago, spook007 said:

Another Russian.... hmmmm....

Well this franchise has always been obsessed with chasing the cam neely that got away. I want my bure!

 

Flight risk I think isn't as bad if you're a bona-fide superstar like tarasenko or malkin 

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, MJDDawg said:

Don't forget Buffalo, LA., Detroit, Dallas,  all these teams that look like they should win, but aren't and can't. 

 

It's so easy for Canuck fans to vent about a rebuild, but people have to realize that after nearly a decade of having a competitive team, the downswing was bound to happen. It happens to ALL teams after a period of success. 

 

It's not easy to win and stay competitive over a long period in this league, but we had it real gud for a long time. This is the beginning of the teams' low point in the cycle. A time to ditch the deadwood, draft some good prospects, develop them, hope the team can get back to respectability sooner rather than later and just try to enjoy watching the kids on the the ride back up the standings at some point.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to just enjoy supporting my team and hope success comes sooner rather than later. The losses now will make success taste that much sweeter later. 

 

Reading posts like those from TheGuardian is like listening to someone always complaining about the rain.

 

 

Don't think people are venting about the rebuild.  Just the fact it arrived two years too late despite people saying we needed to do it for years.

 

The margin for error in finding the next star is next to nothing now because unlike two years ago vets like the Sedins are too old to really insulate the kids from the heavy minutes  so it's sink or swim for them now.

 

There's a lot of dead wood on this team. Some of it acquired during our push for the play offs. Thank goodness for our future that didn't work. I'd rather be us than Calgary right now.

[Pete M]

Guardian...if you think this year was bad...wait until next year.

 

Our "D" will be brutal.

[Crabcakes]

6 hours ago, Aircool said:

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. But there is a very consistent formula to winning Stanley cups. It hasn't failed in the post-salary cap era. If you can produce it. Which isn't necessarily easy, but it's far from impossible.

 

The reality is, in order to win the Stanley Cup, and to do it multiple times like the Blackhawks, Kings, and Penguins. You have to win it when your best players are young. This is the #1 priority. How old was Crosby when he won his first? How old was Toews? How old was Doughty? It's no coincidence that these players are all Top-3 draft picks and have multiple Stanley Cup rings, and it's no coincidence that they play on deep teams. These are not easy things to reproduce, having Elite talent on deep teams, it's hard. Even harder than that, these players that go in the Top-3 generally need to be drafted into some support structure, like McDavid has been, this is how you get a Cup contender. They can't be the player to start a rebuild like Taylor Hall, you don't get a long term cup contender out of that. The reality is you can never guarantee a cup win in any particular year, but if you take the last 10 years of the Penguins, Blackhawks, and Kings, they were ALWAYS going to win at least 1 cup. Too good not to. I mean how long were the Canucks really good? 3 years? 3 years isn't 10 years. Think not only about 2011, but also 1994, you have to be a contender for an extended period of time, and not just a contender but basically one of the top-3 teams in hockey for an extended period of time. Then you can guarantee cup wins, it'll just happen.

 

Bo Horvat is, in my opinion, the kind of player you can build a cup contender around, I think he is the kind of player whose talents truly shine when he is surrounded by other talented players. He's had a good year this year, but if he had some true first line talent on his line he'd be a 70-point player, instead of a 50-point player. I don't think he'll ever be that good without a strong linemate. Someone better than Baertschi. Maybe Boeser will be that guy. He is the kind of game-changer you'd like to have on a winning team though. But we have to revert to my earlier statement, you've got to win the cup when your best players are young, and Bo Horvat will be one of our best players at some point in his career (I mean he is now, but I mean that he will also be of a higher caliber as well...)  Toews was interestingly enough 22 when he won his first cup, how old is Horvat? 22. This team will not be ready to contend for a cup for at least 5 years. I don't think they'll win one in the next 10 years. Horvat will inevitably turn into the next Sedin for Vancouver. When you get your first real shot at the Cup at age 30. Well you're lucky to win one. You won't win two. That's what happened to Henrik and Daniel, and it'll happen to Horvat. He'll have one season to win a cup in his Canucks career. His age and the state of the team guarantee that.

 

Unfortunately for those who want this team to win the cup, there is a problem with having a delay like we've had on the initiation of this rebuild, we've gotten some real talent in the interim. It's going to make it real hard to properly rebuild, and get truly elite talent, it's hard enough missing out on top picks in years where there is elite talent as it is, the odd year of a 10th worst finish is also going to hurt in that regard. Once the Horvats, Boesers, Baertschis, and Granlunds start getting paid for their performance, we're not going to be able to truly capitalize on any of our youths value. They are only particularly valuable on cheap contracts. Once they are getting paid market value, they still have worth and good players are good players, but many teams have such players on market value contracts. The difference maker for cup teams is the depth that can only be provided by having cheap, young, maybe not elite but high quality talent that provides your roster with depth. Elite would be preferable, but you can't plan for it. These reasons all combined, this is why I think Benning (regardless of whether it was his choice, he went along with the plan so I don't absolve him due to that reason) has failed in his duties as GM. This team could have had a better future with multiple legitimate chances at winning the Stanley Cup. I should be more specific and say this iteration of the Canucks. The one that will be lead by Horvat as captain one day. It's future has been hobbled by the indecisiveness of management. I think anyone who really understands what lead the Penguins, Kings and Blackhawks to their recent success, and the struggles of the cap era, can't disagree with this. Why hasn't Anaheim won the cup in recent years? Why hasn't San Jose? Why hasn't Washington? They weren't ready to do it when their best players were young. Tampa Bay is interesting, although they missed the playoffs this year due to so many injuries, I mean they are running into the salary wall now, I don't know how they are going to stay competitive, it'll be tough. These last few years though, it was a team fueled my youngsters and they were LEGIT cup contenders, didn't work out for them, but they had more than 1 chance unlike us.

 

I know a lot of this doesn't really apply specifically to you, you would probably agree with a bunch of it, or maybe not. You just got me thinking in this vein again, and I thought I'd lay out a comprehensive view of why I think Benning has failed, and what we should have done, and good teams should do to win cups... So this is really addressed to anyone who cares to read it, not specifically you. Hopefully people agree, thanks for reading the essay LOL.

 

 

Maybe what we have here right now is the support structure and the star player hasn't been drafted yet.  

[189lb enforcers?]

11 hours ago, DSVII said:

Don't think people are venting about the rebuild.  Just the fact it arrived two years too late despite people saying we needed to do it for years.

 

The margin for error in finding the next star is next to nothing now because unlike two years ago vets like the Sedins are too old to really insulate the kids from the heavy minutes  so it's sink or swim for them now.

 

There's a lot of dead wood on this team. Some of it acquired during our push for the play offs. Thank goodness for our future that didn't work. I'd rather be us than Calgary right now.

Reality.

Assessing how the team got here, which wasn't by a successful, purposeful rebuilding effort, appears to be binary, if not fanatically delusional. I believe it's the general that this fan base fancies, not the army; Orca's PR move to distract fans from criticizing the team, with Linden, has been successful.

 

Fittingly, the OP has embraced the counter-culture, minus magnet, villian role on here, like a ying to the yang of the herd of independent minds on here who rush, like a rhino, to stamp out any conflicting narratives to the Slim-Jim era of meandering and re-fool. 

 

I disagree about your comments on Calgary because of how cheap goalies can come, which was their Achilles heel. Also, if they choose to, they can continue rebuilding by selling off some assets like their captain. They have options to supplement their few very young core players with, unlike the Canucks... who can only hope to be unhealthy enough to refrain from picking outside of the top 5 during their "re-thingy". 

 

 

[canucksnihilist]

look on the bright side... at least we suck for a while and gather great draft picks.  

 

doesn't matter that someone else will be the one to take all the raw materials and make a winner... this is a phase we have to go through.

 

It is often the case that the management team that goes through a downturn, eventually is not around to reap the benefits.  Depending on their competency and realistic assessment of the situation.  If the current management is so out to lunch... doesn't matter.  we have a few down years anyways.  Bringing in the best GM in the league right now (and best management team) wouldn't help this team from sucking the next few years.

 

Now is not the time to worry about it - enjoy seeing the young players develop.  Know that the management team that goes through a down-cycle often doesn't stay to reap the benefits:

 

1. Oilers.  new management just when they start winning

2. Toronto.  new management after years of sucking and accumulating picks.

 

anyways, it isn't a 100% guarantee... but I'd be surprised to see this management group survive 5 more years.  The average Canuck Management team under the Acquilinis is only 2 coaches... give them another coaching cycle and they are done.   Not saying they deserve it or anything like that, but that is the reality.  And the coach after this next one will be the one to take the canucks to the promised land.  And TL and JB will be long gone.

 

It would help TL and JB if they accepted reality a few years ago, they wasted a few years trying to fight against reality...  and still kind of do?  the real sign will be if they get another free agent this year for a lot of cash to try to make the playoffs again - then they are signing their resignation papers in advance.  The owners don't want it, management doesn't want it... but there is nothing that can be done about reality.  And someone has to pay for the delusions

 

 

[canuck73_3]

If we're going to continue to let the guardian start threads we really need to up our daily allowed minuses to at least 5. 

[R35Godz1lla]

4 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

I agree with some of what you state but the reason things have gone the way they have is due to something you dismiss. 

 

Unfortunately, it is also the truth, so your interpretation of the situation the team is in will never line up with reality until you accept certain things:

 

-Aqua got a little power mad . . . .

 

* Snipped *

 

 

Pure conjecture and melodramatic ramblings of the teenage girl variety

 

Owners give mandates, that's nothing new, the extent to which those mandates affect a GM's ability to do their job varies, but you make it sound like Aqua was sitting in on every single hockey op's meeting and conference called into every trade discussion and basically stood behind Gilli's and Benning's shoulders very minute of every day whispering into their ears what he wanted them to do.

 

Yes, I would say that after the 2011 cup run Ownership seemed to have gotten a bit more involved, but only because they wanted to get back to the top, not because Gilli's was playing games with his ego.

 

 Another pint is that Aqua has allot of $$$ and its not all from the Canucks. The circles he runs in don't really care if his hockey team is 10-15% of his net worth, lots of big money guys buy hockey teams like medium money guys buy cars. Its the constant complaint about Rogers Library, all the suits who fill seats because having seasons tickets is a status symbol item, not because hockey runs in their veins.

 

That said lots of things have pointed to Aqua being a big fan of hockey and of the team. So yes, the last 2 or so years of Gilli's tenure not only had a team on the decline but also had some ownership interference ( Torts ) but I would say that with Benning things are a little different. Ownership seems to have told Linden/Benning that they wanted them to try and get the team back to the playoffs, but not at the cost of refilling the prospect pool to the best of their ability over that time period.

 

Aqua is not an idiot, if us smuck's on an internet forum could see that the team had no decent prospects and that the core was getting older and less productive so could he. As others have mentioned and I also have been saying it over and over, with the Sedins wanting to stay here and players like Edler not wanting to waive the bottoming out was going to have to happen organically not by management purposely stocking the team with AHL level players.

 

Does accepting the fact that we where never going to get McDavid and that the difference between us having Matthews and Toronto getting Matthews was 10%, somehow negate your need to be angry at someone and to run around yelling that the sky is falling? If so I don't understand how that's a bad thing.

 

The team did bad last year and in a heartbreaking turn of events lost the draft lottery, you can blame Edmonton for the draft lottery if you want to blame someone, but guess what, even without the draft lottery we where never getting Matthews. The team has more prospects and more young players ( with true potential ) than we have probably had for the last 15 years that I have closely followed this team.

 

Be happy that the rebuild is now starting and just accept the fact that it was never going to 100% start the moment Benning took over.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

18 hours ago, Aircool said:

Look. This thread is horrible. But the idea that Jim Benning has a bad plan isn't absurd. I think he drafts well, I just don't approve of the direction of this franchise. We should have started rebuilding from the day he got here. We missed out on truly elite talent in McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine. For what? Winning mentality?

In 2015 we landed Boeser during that winning year.  Arizona and Buff were already locks for the bottom two spots that year, without purposely loosing we'd have had no chance as finishing bottom two. 

 

in 2016, what more did you want the canucks to do, we finished 3rd last.  We were right in on the Matthews, Laine train.  It's not our fault the lotto balls didn't fall our way,  they only thing more canucks could have done was slide Bettman some money under the table to insure we got one of those two. 

 

2017 were 2nd worst in the NHL, not much more we can do to try and set ourselves up for a Patrick or Hischier,  it's not our fault this year happens to be the year that there isn't a gen talent,  it wasn't long ago (sept 2015) where liljegren was expected to be a franchise D. Things didn't turn out..

 

2018 by all accounts looks like another bottom year with two top end talents in Svechnikov and Dahlin. 

 

You're a big opponent of the tank but when a GM follows through on it, he becomes mediocre?  Is 28 and 29th placed finishes not bad enough?

 

18 hours ago, Aircool said:

 

I've said this 1000x I'll say it again. Bad players lose, good players win. Talent is EVERYTHING. We've targeted the wrong kinds of assets in trades. He's made some okay trades like Baertschi and Granlund, but they won't be a part of the first Canucks team to win a Stanley Cup, this team is no less than 10 years away from that hope.

 

Vey , Prust, Etem, Larssen, Clendening, Pedan so far was wrong, Not moving hammer and Vbrata also misses, he's definitely not perfect.

 

But Baertschi, granlund are good.  Goldi, Dahlen can also be very good. Signing Stecher is another good move.  

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

21 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In 2015 we landed Boeser during that winning year.  Arizona and Buff were already locks for the bottom two spots that year, without purposely loosing we'd have had no chance as finishing bottom two. 

 

in 2016, what more did you want the canucks to do, we finished 3rd last.  We were right in on the Matthews, Laine train.  It's not our fault the lotto balls didn't fall our way,  they only thing more canucks could have done was slide Bettman some money under the table to insure we got one of those two. 

 

2017 were 2nd worst in the NHL, not much more we can do to try and set ourselves up for a Patrick or Hischier,  it's not our fault this year happens to be the year that there isn't a gen talent,  it wasn't long ago (sept 2015) where liljegren was expected to be a franchise D. Things didn't turn out..

 

2018 by all accounts looks like another bottom year with two top end talents in Svechnikov and Dahlin. 

 

You're a big opponent of the tank but when a GM follows through on it, he becomes mediocre?  Is 28 and 29th placed finishes not bad enough?

 

 

Vey , Prust, Etem, Larssen, Clendening, Pedan so far was wrong, Not moving hammer and Vbrata also misses, he's definitely not perfect.

 

But Baertschi, granlund are good.  Goldi, Dahlen can also be very good. Signing Stecher is another good move.  

 

 

Are you suggesting that Slim-Jim aimed for these season finishes?

"Follows through..." with what? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Not moving hammer and Vbrata also misses, he's definitely not perfect.

Still? Really???

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Stop feeding the troll people.

 

Move along.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

27 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Are you suggesting that Slim-Jim aimed for these season finishes?

"Follows through..." with what? 

 

I'm suggesting that the end result of finishing near the bottom, to draft a top talent is the same. 

 

Aircool's been a huge component that canucks need to get a top 3 talent in the draft.  Well what more do canucks need to do?  You can't praise one team (like the hawks) as being the success story and then call the other team that has nearly identical records as a fail. 

 

Did hawk and Kings aim for their bottom finishes?  . 

 

Kings between 2007-09 finished 26,29,25

Hawks between 2004-07 finished 29,28,25

Meanwhile canucks in 3 of the last 4 years are 24,28,29.

 

The only thing that separate those teams is pure luck.  Luck that hawks won the lottery to draft Kane despite finishing tied with the 6th worst record in the league, Luck that Johnson and J.Staal went ahead of Toews.  Had Canucks had the same luck we'd be sitting with Drasaitl and Laine right now.  Instead of Virtanen and Juolevi.  and then no one would be complaining. 

[R35Godz1lla]

10 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Are you suggesting that Slim-Jim aimed for these season finishes?

"Follows through..." with what? 

 

 

Year 1: Signs Miller and Vrbata and does a couple of other minor moves, tries to set the team up to have a resurgence from the previous Torts fiasco, team makes the playoffs and gets run over by a Calgary team running on piss and vinegar.

 

Year 2: Tweaks with year 1's roster, as hey, they got 100 points, why mess with what worked ( Still drafting prospects / making trades and signing un-drafted players ) . Team is glutted by injuries and under-performing sulky players ( Vrbata ) but at the same time we start to see the new core emerging Bo, Hutton, Etc. Fans piss and moan about not trading 2 poorly performing players at the trade deadline and we subsequently get robbed by the lottery odds. Still drafting and trading well and continues to try and fill organizational holes without giving away futures.

 

Year 3: Signs Eriksson and um, yah, that's it for big moves. Now are you sensing the same theme here as me? Year 1, lots of moves, year 2, fewer moves, year 3, even less moves. Its as thought he could feel the team starting to reach a critical implosion.

 

Benning may have made a few moves that didn't return well. The trade for Pedan ( very small chance he ever becomes a #5 or #6 , but still a chance ) Vey while a useful player didn't really help the team achieve anything per se. Vrbata was useless in year 2 and refused to be trades. A 2'nd for Hamhuise would have been nice, but the cacophony or issues surrounding a potential trade for him has been well documented, so meh. Trading for Larsen was possibly short sighted, but had he been a decent PMD who played 50/60 games and helped ignite the PP the cost would have been more than acceptable. Maybe never pick up Dorsett ( I feel like his influence on the team is worth something though, it was really missed this year ) and I guess Virtanen was a miss ( only if you judge based on today's return ) .

 

But in that same time period he Stole Boeser ( On the team, looks to be a stud ), Demko looks like he could become a Cory Schneider ( or better ), Juolevi has a ton of potential, Virtanen is starting to swing up again + all the other late round picks who looks to have some diamond in the rough qualities ( Lockwood, Gaudette Etc. ) . Traded for Bartschi, Granlund + Quads is still an unknown ( Has the ability to be a stud ) , love him or hate him Sutter does allot of little things that are important to any team, whether tanking or competing, as he helps keep games from being complete blow outs every night. Miller has given his hear and soul to the team for the last 3 years, can't be anything but happy about that move as I love seeing his passion and desire to win.

 

Most importantly!!, he has yet to trade away a first round pick or blue chip prospect in any sort of a panic move. He may have thrown a few latter round draft picks around, but when you have zero prospects you kind of have to.

 

We where never going to be a Edmonton or Toronto, they have young players that could be polarized together by a single draft lottery player ( McDavid / Matthews ) we havd very little, so Benning had to rebuild the supporting cast before adding some fresh faced inexperienced talent with top end potential.

 

The plan was always to compete for a playoff spot while bringing along a new group of younger player who could become the new core. They never planned to outright tank, but I don't think they ever thought that it wasn't going to happen eventually (  a bottom 3 finish ) .

 

Had the goal been playoffs at all costs we would have seen Benning throwing away picks and prospects at the 2015 / 2016 trade deadline for short term returns.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Still? Really???

What can you do, people love fiction.

 

5 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

Stop feeding the troll people.

 

Move along.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

10 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Still? Really???

yes really, No matter how you want to look at it, it's still called a miss.  It doesn't matter if his hands were tied. It's a miss. 

[lmm]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

Are you a 13 year old girl? I'm really curious because I remember what my daughter was like around that age.

 

1 hour ago, R35Godz1lla said:

 

Pure conjecture and melodramatic ramblings of the teenage girl variety

Owners give mandates, that's nothing new, the extent to which those mandates affect a GM's ability to do their job varies, but you make it sound like Aqua was sitting in on every single hockey op's meeting and conference called into every trade discussion and basically stood behind Gilli's and Benning's shoulders very minute of every day whispering into their ears what he wanted them to do.

 

Yes, I would say that after the 2011 cup run Ownership seemed to have gotten a bit more involved, but only because they wanted to get back to the top, not because Gilli's was playing games with his ego.

 

 Another pint is that Aqua has allot of $$$ and its not all from the Canucks. The circles he runs in don't really care if his hockey team is 10-15% of his net worth, lots of big money guys buy hockey teams like medium money guys buy cars. Its the constant complaint about Rogers Library, all the suits who fill seats because having seasons tickets is a status symbol item, not because hockey runs in their veins.

 

That said lots of things have pointed to Aqua being a big fan of hockey and of the team. So yes, the last 2 or so years of Gilli's tenure not only had a team on the decline but also had some ownership interference ( Torts ) but I would say that with Benning things are a little different. Ownership seems to have told Linden/Benning that they wanted them to try and get the team back to the playoffs, but not at the cost of refilling the prospect pool to the best of their ability over that time period.

 

Aqua is not an idiot, if us smuck's on an internet forum could see that the team had no decent prospects and that the core was getting older and less productive so could he. As others have mentioned and I also have been saying it over and over, with the Sedins wanting to stay here and players like Edler not wanting to waive the bottoming out was going to have to happen organically not by management purposely stocking the team with AHL level players.

 

Does accepting the fact that we where never going to get McDavid and that the difference between us having Matthews and Toronto getting Matthews was 10%, somehow negate your need to be angry at someone and to run around yelling that the sky is falling? If so I don't understand how that's a bad thing.

 

The team did bad last year and in a heartbreaking turn of events lost the draft lottery, you can blame Edmonton for the draft lottery if you want to blame someone, but guess what, even without the draft lottery we where never getting Matthews. The team has more prospects and more young players ( with true potential ) than we have probably had for the last 15 years that I have closely followed this team.

 

Be happy that the rebuild is now starting and just accept the fact that it was never going to 100% start the moment Benning took over.

Is it the new tough guy thing to compare others to teenage girls?

Look in the mirror gentlemen, and say that out loud.