The Lock Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: So, first off, you sign a low-scoring AHL-caliber pseudo-enforcer to protect your stars? Stars you don't actually have on your roster yet??? Yeah, brilliant plan there! Future stars. How else do we get stars then? Overpaying for everything? You didn't seem to reply to the rest of my post. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 28 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: What I'm saying is that Cramarossa (and all the other players we've been signing recently) aren't anywhere near good enough to turn this ship around. They are fringe NHL'ers. If you want a team that competes for the Cup, you need more than just a large group of fringe NHL'ers. You need stars. Not Megna's, Chaput's, Skille's, Cramarossa's, etc... We need players who are better than average (at their position in the line-up). We are signing nothing but players who are below average (but have the potential to be, one day, many years down the road, above-average). Now, this is actually a step up from Nonis (who got us terrible players with absolutely no upside at all), but it's still not enough. For insance, go take a quick look at our roster from 5 or so years ago. Our 3rd and 4th lines were chock-full of players who could score around 30 points. And, that still wasn't good enough to win anything. Most years it got us nothing at all but an early playoff exit. Today, our 3rd and 4th lines are filled with players who go months or years between scoring. They are no better than 10 point players. And, not surprisingly, we are 28 places lower in the standings because of it. We need our management to smarten-up and get us the type of players we actually need. The type of players that actually improve our team. Unfortunately, they've messed up so epically, that it now becomes a thousand times harder to attract those players. These guys are depth signings. Role players. Stepping stones until the guys we've been drafting, developing etc who will hopefully 'turn this ship around' are ready to do so. Crammer was not signed to 'turn the ship around'. We aren't competing for a cup next year FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 34 minutes ago, hammertime said: He's no Dale Weise but I'm happy he will be back. Lol, not exactly a ringing endorsement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 4 hours ago, StealthNuck said: Vey 3.0? I really don't see the comparison at all Vey wasn't fast. He wasn't particularly gritty. Crarmarossa is far more likely to be used as a grit winger - not really comparable roles even. Cramarossa is more akin to a Kenins type replacement with more snarl - bottom six energy player / not what Vey was/is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Quote These guys are depth signings. Role players. You aren't getting the point... To be a competitive team, your 'depth' has to be a hell of a lot deeper than this! Back when we were a good team, our 'depth' and 'role players' were 30 point players. Today they are 10 point players. We don't need 10 point players. We need 20+ and 30+ point scorers instead. 10 point players guarantee we finish at the bottom of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: You aren't getting the point... No, you're just posting the predictable, thoughtless, dime-a-dozen 'why bother with these plugs' nonsense that creeps into every thread regarding a signing like this - as if every team doesn't have an AHL franchise, doesn't sign depth energy players, doesn't have 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th men, etc and guys that play bottom six roles at the AHL and NHL callup level. But carry on - it's pointless noise - but apparently you think this indicates that you have some kind of one-up where your concept of team-building is concerned - I think it actually indicates the opposite - that you're oblivious to the everyday business of any NHL franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 40 minutes ago, The Lock said: You didn't seem to reply to the rest of my post. Imagine that. I didn't reply to the rest of your post - because it was juvenile and not deserving of a response. It - literally - argued that having a decent 3rd and 4th line would cost so much that a team couldn't afford any stars! Yes, 6 forward positions at an average of like $2 million each are going to be so expensive that a team couldn't possibly afford any superstars with the remaining $60 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 3 hours ago, J.R. said: 13th forward...great! Baer, Horvat, Eriksson Sedin, Sedin, Granlund, Rodin, UFA, Boeser Gaunce, Sutter, Dorsett Cramarossa Put Sutter on the third line and Chaput on the fourth in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said: Put Sutter on the third line and Chaput on the fourth in the middle. Sutter gets his 30-40 points/15-20 goals whether he's playing with checkers or more skilled players. It really doesn't matter. He's however, far more effective in a dzone/match up role with other tenacious checkers on his wings. A role we will need. Those more skilled players are also better off with a more skilled C (I'd consider Granlund there before Sutter if we can't find a suitable UFA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo0921 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 52 minutes ago, J.R. said: We are signing nothing but players who are below average (but have the potential to be, one day, many years down the road, above-average). Hmmmm, kinda sounds like a rebuilding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: I didn't reply to the rest of your post - because it was juvenile and not deserving of a response. It - literally - argued that having a decent 3rd and 4th line would cost so much that a team couldn't afford any stars! Yes, 6 forward positions at an average of like $2 million each are going to be so expensive that a team couldn't possibly afford any superstars with the remaining $60 million. So basically because it went against what you said it's "juvenile"? Yet, you're calling people... names.... hmmmmmm,,,, anyway.... So let's look at this then. 12 forwards, 6 defenders, 2 goalies, and 3 depth signings. We'll even unrealistically ignore injuries and other contracts we may have for your sake. Let's take out $12 million (6 x $2 mil per contract) out of an estimated $72million dollars cap, so this gives you $60mil to work with as you mentioned. So 23 contracts minus the 6 contracts we have spread over $60mil. This leaves us with just over $3.5mil per contract average spread over 17 other players (again, not including extra stuff). So, what do we need out of that? Probably a good goalie. So let's say $5mil for the goalies to be conservative. Let's also give ourselves a top line averaging $6mil (again conservative as there are players being paid 8 or 9 mil in this league). A top defensive pair of around the same $6mil per (depends on if we have a Chara or a Weber or not but it could average out like this). We're now down to 13 contracts and $25mil left. $25mil divided by 13 contracts is less than $2mil per player on the remaining contracts. So are we going to then pay 2mil for our 2nd forward line and 2nd and 3rd defensive pairing? $2mil average per player over the bottom 2 lines would actually hamper us if we had a Stanley Cup winning team. This is why we see young players getting signed for their potential rather than for what they are doing now. This is also why players like Cramarossa are signed (and also injury prevention). EDIT: This is even trying to give your opinion good odds and the benefit of the doubt. I've given you conservative numbers (if we have an ideal team we'd probably pay more for our superstars). I've ignored anything extra that might hamper us on the cap. You want a good team and seem to think $60mil is a lot of money but, when you start adding contracts up, it's not. But hey, apparently I'm "juvenile". Does this mean I get to drink from the fountain of youth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 4 hours ago, J.R. said: 13th forward...great! Baer, Horvat, Eriksson Sedin, Sedin, Granlund, Rodin, UFA, Boeser Gaunce, Sutter, Dorsett Cramarossa Lol @ Rodin in lineup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Lol @ Rodin in lineup Don't be surprised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Can turn into a solid bottom 6 guy with some grit. However, lets clarify he is NOT an enforcer or skilled pugilist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebreh Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 21 minutes ago, RRypien37 said: Can turn into a solid bottom 6 guy with some grit. However, lets clarify he is NOT an enforcer or skilled pugilist. I'm hoping he becomes an pest and agitator like Roussel and i'd like to see them sign Peluso for the enforcer role if they are looking for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, RRypien37 said: Can turn into a solid bottom 6 guy with some grit. However, lets clarify he is NOT an enforcer or skilled pugilist. Decent (and cheaper) Dorsett replacement once we trade him at the TDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Couldn't hurt to give him another look considering there seems to be no one on Utica really pushing for a bottom 6 spot at the moment other than Labate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 6 hours ago, Lancaster said: Minimal expectations. Hopefully he becomes a staple 4th line guy. It's good to have stability when it comes to the forth line. & the Good Lord sayeth.."Multiply, go fourth & flourish baby!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 4 hours ago, hammertime said: He's no Dale Weise but I'm happy he will be back. The Wheeze loaded his bank book, then went full-Megna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.