[Speculation] Tanev to Toronto (Scott Cullen)

[Mattrek]

4 hours ago, mll said:

This is just ranking the red segment (defence) among all the Ds available and not all the segments together.  Re defensively at EV he is top-20 in that model but not overall.

 

See tweet below that ranks the Ds by offence (blue segment).  Hedman, Karlsson have a bigger impact overall - re above 12 while Tanev is maybe closer to 8.  Their impact comes from their offence while Tanev's impact comes primarily from his defence.  Karlsson is 4th overall in total impact under that model while Klefbom is 1st.  

 

Brodin is ranked just after Tanev.  Per Russo, the Wild are actually thinking of moving him re he brings too limited offence.  The blue segment is close to inexistent which signals that he is barely replacement level offensively.  The Wild have actually hired two of the co-founders of war-on-ice.  If they are coming to the conclusion that he is not necessarily an asset - it means that they are using different metrics or putting more value on the eye test / how he fits in their system to evaluate him.

 

---

Re above - this is the top-20 by EV offence (blue segment):

 

 

 

 

Way to completely miss the point. Contrary to popular belief on here offense is not the only way to cause impact in a hockey game. The stats given are a full picture on total impact, which should be the measure used to evaluate a player's value instead of the points above all measure most here on CDC tend to deploy.

[SabreFan1]

3 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

I think @SabreFan1 might blow a gasket over that trade. I think we'd have to add a lot more to pry SR from Buffalo. 

 

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Hutton is a young, still improving,  top 4 D who is ED exempt. He alone wouldn't be cheap. BUF badly needs a left side, top 4 D NOW and we repeatedly see top 4 D return disproportionate trade value. 

 

Baer is a solid 2nd line W to replace winger depth.

 

Yes we're getting the best player but that's solid value IMO. 

Not a fan of the trade, but the best bet to see if that trade is feasible is to check out the Sabres' new GM track history in trades since after he became an associate GM with the Pens in 2014.

 

Reinhart was Murray's first draft pick as GM, but now that Murray is gone, Botterill may be looking to mold the team to his vision.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Mattrek said:

 

Way to completely miss the point. Contrary to popular belief on here offense is not the only way to cause impact in a hockey game. The stats given are a full picture on total impact, which should be the measure used to evaluate a player's value instead of the points above all measure most here on CDC tend to deploy.

That's the point it's not a complete picture.

 

It ranked by defensive impact.  The chart here ranked by offensive impact.  It's the same numbers.  Trouba for example is on both charts because he is top-20 in defensive impact (red segment) but also top-20 in offensive impact (blue segment).  Ideally there would be a chart that combines both. 

 

You've only looked at the defensive chart but to have a complete picture you have to look at all the players and not just the ones that are solid defensively.  The chart with Tanev are the 20 guys who have the bigger red segments.  The chart with Karlsson are the 20 guys who have the bigger blue segments.  

 

The chart below ranks the 20 guys who have the bigger combination of blue and red segments.  The chart with the 20-guys who have the bigger total of all the segments combined doesn't exist, and you have to kind of derive it on your own if you want to come up with an overall ranking.  He has tweeted the individual ones for each team.  

 

[Gaudette Celly]

36 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

we'd have a chance at picking up his brother at 33oa potentially as well. 

We're trying to get faster.

[JM_]

42 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

 

Not a fan of the trade, but the best bet to see if that trade is feasible is to check out the Sabres' new GM track history in trades since after he became an associate GM with the Pens in 2014.

 

Reinhart was Murray's first draft pick as GM, but now that Murray is gone, Botterill may be looking to mold the team to his vision.

actually there are a lot of D trades when he was with the pens... not sure how that translates to a BUF deal with us but here's the list: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Pittsburgh_Penguins/1

 

are there any rumblings about SR being shopped? or at least being call about?

[B53]

No interest in Carrick what so ever. We have enough dmen to play in the NHL for this year. Edler Stetcher Hutton Gudbranson Sbisa Biega Juolevi Pedan. No need for another fringe guy who I dont think ever becomes anything more then a 6th dman who plays 55-65 games. I feel Tanev is not that far off from Adam Larsson value. I think you have to use him to get that young 20+ goal winger (Would have been nice to draft Ritchie over Virtanen or Tkachuk or Juolevi). He's our biggest trade piece, and the only one who will get us that return. Brendan Leipsic is interesting of course, but not in a Tanev deal. I would want a sure thing in return in this deal. Tanev for Nylander might have worked last off-season, but that ship has no sailed. So Connor Brown and a 2nd is what I would be going for before its too late. Brown I honestly think can become a 30g 30a type player. He's not the guy with size that Benning wanted, but I feel there is just so much there that you must take advantage of this window.

 

As for Yanni Gourde, after looking at the UFA market this year, there is literally not a single guy I would go for (I wish we offered Shipachyov 2 yrs/8mil). Yanni Gourde I watched in the AHL all-star game and I thought he was unreal. Playing for Tampa Bay, in the final month of the season, other then Kucherov, he looked the player most likely to score for them every game. I am a huge fan, and I hope we make a run at him (especially if we lose Gaunce/Boucher in the expansion draft)

 

Peter Budaj, I am a big fan of this as well. Scott Darling was my original choice but he went for more a bit more money then I had expected. I feel Miller we should let walk and hold onto that 6 mil cap space for a potential deal in off-season or in the first 15 games of the season. Jacob Markstrom as a 3.5mil backup to Millers lets say 5mil this year he would receive is too much tied up in goal. Budaj at 1.5 for 2 years makes total sense to me. If Markstrom isnt the number 1 this year, he never will be.

[B53]

It might actually be a good time to see what players we can get on a bit of a discount because of the expansion draft coming up. Not saying all these guys are going to be unprotected, but loosely looking at their respective teams, I see these guys as possible 7th fwds, 4th dmen, or simply trade bait to allow their teams to protect someone else on the roster that they do not want to lose:

J.Manson, J.Hayes, Z.Girgensons, T.Ennis, M.Foligno, M.Kruger, M.Grigorenko, S.Andrighetto, R.Murray, J.Anderson, J.Oleksiak, B.Ritchie, R.Sheahan, T.Lewis, E.Haula, J.Brodin, C.Jarnkrok, C.Smith, C.Cizikas, C.Clutterbuck, C.De Haan, T.Hickey, J.Fast, Z.Smith, P.Bellamare, B.Dumoulin, J.Donskoi, B.Dillon, R.Reaves, J.Lehtera, C.Paquette, V.Namestnikov, J.Brown, J.Leivo, J.Beagle, B.Connolly, N.Schmidt, M.Dano, A.Lowry, B.Chiarot

 

Teams to target would be Minnesota, New York Islanders, Columbus, Nashville, Tampa Bay. These teams are going to lose some good players

[SabreFan1]

59 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

actually there are a lot of D trades when he was with the pens... not sure how that translates to a BUF deal with us but here's the list: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Pittsburgh_Penguins/1

 

are there any rumblings about SR being shopped? or at least being call about?

I read one blogger article about it, but he made a weak case.  Everything else I've read has said that the Sabres need to keep SR in their top 6.

[Where'd Luongo?]

There's just no way Benning trades Tanev for two unproven players under 5'11". I'm sure that was an offer, but if JB can't get more then just keep Tanev.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Lots of talk of jb taking a D in the draft... Tanev trade could really make sense if its the right deal. 

[B53]

1 minute ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

Lots of talk of jb taking a D in the draft... Tanev trade could really make sense if its the right deal. 

I was always thinkin Benning was talking about Vilardi, Middlestadt/Glass, and Heiskanen when he said we would get a playmaking centre or a PP dman. I'm now thinking maybe he see's Glass/Middlestadt and the others as 2nd line centre's, and maybe his list is Vilardi, Heiskanen, Makar. Cale Makar i've never seen play, and its a huge risk taking him, but it'd be very interesting to see if that skill and offense can translate to him being a stud number 1 dman. Heiskenen wont make it to 5, so if Vilardi is there, take him, if he's gone, I dont know what to do. Once again, we are one pick away from that top group of players. 

 

Anybody have footage of Mittlestadt?? The top 1 or 2 americans in every draft are always undervalued. Keller, Connor, Larkin, White, etc.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

I read one blogger article about it, but he made a weak case.  Everything else I've read has said that the Sabres need to keep SR in their top 6.

the only thing I can think of is that he won't be used as a C, and doesn't want to be a career winger or move down to be a 3rd line C. Checking his face-off stats he appears to stink in that category, but maybe under Malholtra's guidance here he could pick that up. I guess the other possibility is he refuses to sign a contract extension and then they try to shop him next season when his ELC is up? But I haven't seen anything saying he's that unhappy in Buffalo. I've never been to Buffalo but it seems no different than living in Edmonton or Calgary. 

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

8 minutes ago, B53 said:

I was always thinkin Benning was talking about Vilardi, Middlestadt/Glass, and Heiskanen when he said we would get a playmaking centre or a PP dman. I'm now thinking maybe he see's Glass/Middlestadt and the others as 2nd line centre's, and maybe his list is Vilardi, Heiskanen, Makar. Cale Makar i've never seen play, and its a huge risk taking him, but it'd be very interesting to see if that skill and offense can translate to him being a stud number 1 dman. Heiskenen wont make it to 5, so if Vilardi is there, take him, if he's gone, I dont know what to do. Once again, we are one pick away from that top group of players. 

 

Anybody have footage of Mittlestadt?? The top 1 or 2 americans in every draft are always undervalued. Keller, Connor, Larkin, White, etc.

Search up mittlestadt wjc highlights. Him and logan brown were great together

[bp79]

On 5/12/2017 at 8:04 PM, Alflives said:

 

We all three like Drouin, but does JB?  Euro skill and NA grit. 

 

Would take Drouin in A heartbeat Nylander is gotta be the most overrated player Take away Austin and mitch and Nylander no way in hell puts up anywhere near 61 points. He is atrocious on D and would get flam bayed playing in the West. CDC sees 61 points and orgasms delve deeper really watch him play nothing special. Anson freaking Carter had 20 goals with the twins He benefited from 2 future HOF just like Nylander is benefitting from Mathews and marner.

[wildcam]

16 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

I would rather get a young guy like Kapenen who could be just as good and is an age that will grow with our team. Unless we traded Erikkson 

Sutter is too soft, Eberle is too soft and make 1.7 million more then Sutter.. 

We need to package Sutter in a deal, some team that needs  dependable C on a cup run..Sutter way to soft for a guy 6'3, he should look at his Dads videos.. I think JB will find a trade partner..

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, wildcam said:

Sutter is too soft, Eberle is too soft and make 1.7 million more then Sutter.. 

We need to package Sutter in a deal, some team that needs  dependable C on a cup run..Sutter way to soft for a guy 6'3, he should look at his Dads videos.. I think JB will find a trade partner..

You think JB is looking to trade Sutter; the very same Sutter JB called a foundational piece?  

[oldnews]

21 minutes ago, bp79 said:

Would take Drouin in A heartbeat Nylander is gotta be the most overrated player Take away Austin and mitch and Nylander no way in hell puts up anywhere near 61 points. He is atrocious on D and would get flam bayed playing in the West. CDC sees 61 points and orgasms delve deeper really watch him play nothing special. Anson freaking Carter had 20 goals with the twins He benefited from 2 future HOF just like Nylander is benefitting from Mathews and marner.

Nylander is over-rated because of who he plays with, but Drouin is some kind of real deal?

Not sure if serious.

[B53]

I wonder who the 7 players Benning is looking at over in France right now:

 

DMEN:

Michal Cajkovsky

Romain Loeffel

Ramon Untersander

Philip Holm

Radim Simek

Viktor Antipin

Mattias Norstebo

 

FWDS:

Nikita Gusev

Jan Kovar

Vincent Praplan

Denis Hollenstein

Veli Savinainen

 

*I've been hoping the Kovar brothers came over to the NHL for a while now, its about time. I don't know much about Gusev, but those are some great numbers. Those dmen I am going to watch closely the rest of the tournament. See who the puck moving guys are. I'm going to assume Michal Cajkovsky is one

 

[B53]

35 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You think JB is looking to trade Sutter; the very same Sutter JB called a foundational piece?  

 

I think if Sutter's salary was 3.5, people would like him. We cannot trade him yet, because without him, Horvat and Sedin would not have as much offensive zone time. Sutter is needed, and quite honestly, a bit underappreciated. He is not a 50-60 point guy. He is a 20goal 20 assist guy who plays against other teams best players. Its not his fault Willie put him on the top PP unit. We can trade him in a few years when we have someone else who can one day play that role. Until then, he must stay

 

*Washington Capitals wish they had a Brandon Sutter. I believe if they had say Ryan Kesler instead of Kuznetsov, they would be playing against Ottawa right now

[kenhodgejr]

Carl Grundstrom and Yegor Korsakov for Chris Tanev