Rush17 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Clearly management views Pouliot as > Pedan, Wiercioch, and Biega. opening night? ahead of del zotto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 hours ago, DrJockitch said: Green has a lot of experience with both Pouliot and Pedan. He clearly saw something he didn't like in Pedan as he was often a healthy scratch in Utica towards the end of last year. Good luck to him. So we have a number 3,5 and 8 overall playing (or in Europe) for our D now. Still none of them are elite, but at least can see some high end talent that we may be able to mine. Been thinking a lot about the same thing. He wasn't one of Greens men... While I liked, what he brought to the table, I'm not the slightest surprised, he's gone for another project. They clearly didn't believe he was ever going to be a proper roster member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Just now, kloubek said: Pedan is 6'3, and heavier. And just because a guy was selected 8th overall, does that really mean anything if they never lived up to expectations? Not disagreeing other than Pedan is 6'5". the question was about why not keep working on Subban (which we are this trade doesn't change that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Benning a beast. Pedan was never going to play for us. At the cost of a 4th, we got at least an NHL calibre 23 year old dman. Very low risk, with potential for great reward. I love these types of deals. No better way to spend a late pick than to upgrade a career AHLer to an actual NHLer. The thing is, if we lose out on the 4th and Pouliot is garbage, whatever. But Benning has shown to have a good eye for players and talent. If he becomes even a consistent 3rd pairing Dman, and maybe play some special teams, it was a great trade. If he becomes top 4, it was a fantastic trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YummyCakeFace Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Don't like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rush17 said: opening night? ahead of del zotto? The same thing crossed my mind, but it says roster, not lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 59 minutes ago, D-Money said: I previously thought he was a righty too - until I opened this thread and noticed his pic in the OP. I always think every pmd is a righty lol. I've seen Hicketts play countless times and still have to stop myself and rethink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, kloubek said: What exactly are you basing your valuation of Pouliot on? BOTH these players were not finding success in the NHL. Pedan was hoped to be a hard hitting, defensive player with a little bit of scoring ability. Clearly we didn't see much in the way of scoring from him in the NHL but he did find somewhat reasonable success in that regard in Utica. In fact, season before last he was scoring at a point-every-other-game. He just (so far) was unable to put together a game suitable for the NHL. Pouliot, on the other hand, was supposed to be a very good player... hence where he was drafted. He was more consistent at putting up a point every other game for multiple seasons, but otherwise didn't make much of an impact at the NHL level either - especially last season. And to top it off, he doesn't even play as physical of a game as Pedan does nor is he as big. Since you imply I grossly underappreciate this trade (so much so that it was worthy of a facepalm and bolding), I ask you where your statistical proof is that Pouliot is far and away better than having Pedan and the 4th? Or is it just your opinion, and you feel if people don't agree with your opinion that gives you reason to act condescending? Top 4 ceiling vs bottom pair ceiling. Simple as that. No guarantee either player reaches them of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 23 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Nothing stopping Colorado from doing a similar move, but perhaps they didn't want to pay or they had nothing Pittsburgh wanted to start with. Hard to say, Sakic isn't exactly pulling rabbits out of hats over there... he may have thought he'd have no competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Provost said: I think on our end we saw that Juolevi might be a bit longer away than they had hoped. Getting another prospect/reclamation project that has 2nd pairing potential for a low price seems wise. maybe also insurance if Guddy doesn't re-sign or is traded at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Not disagreeing other than Pedan is 6'5". the question was about why not keep working on Subban (which we are this trade doesn't change that) They must truly believe that Subban isn't ready for the bigs. And honestly, I don't think he is. At least not on d. A lot can happen with our blueline in a year or two, and between the possibility of Subban exploding and inevitable injuries on our blueline, he will have a chance if he earns it in Utica. As far as Pedan's height, my bad. Not sure where I got that from but it appears to have been wrong. (Although at least one source DOES peg him at 6'4 for splitting the difference.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naslundfan921 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 The 4th that people are whining about should be recouped (if not added to) at the deadline when Vanek gets flipped to a contender. If Pouliot plays well, moving one of the mainstays on D wouldn't be out of the question either (be that at the deadline or the draft) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, kloubek said: They must truly believe that Subban isn't ready for the bigs. And honestly, I don't think he is. At least not on d. A lot can happen with our blueline in a year or two, and between the possibility of Subban exploding and inevitable injuries on our blueline, he will have a chance if he earns it in Utica. I don't think its necessarily related. Ones a RHD the other LHD. If they both can get better on D we could see both of them some in the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 26 minutes ago, J.R. said: Pouliot = likely #2-#3 D ceiling Subban = likely #6-#7 D ceiling. That's why. If Pouliot can be a top 6 defenseman who can play on the second unit powerplay and isn't a liability in the dzone then that is a win for the organization. If Pouliot can become an offensive-minded top 4 defenseman who can move the puck, quarterback the first unit power play, and play well defensively then that's an even bigger win. Similar to Christian Ehrhoff. Pouliot - Tanev could be a good defense pairing when Travis Green rotates his defensemen in and out of the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, naslundfan921 said: The 4th that people are whining about should be recouped (if not added to) at the deadline when Vanek gets flipped to a contender. Sure. We could recoup a lot of picks by moving our guys, but those are all separate transactions. This transaction is this transaction, and we gave up an asset. If Pouliot can be a top 6 defenseman who can play on the second unit powerplay and isn't a liability in the dzone then that is a win for the organization. If Pouliot can become an offensive-minded top 4 defenseman who can move the puck, quarterback the first unit power play, and play well defensively then that's an even bigger win. Similar to Christian Ehrhoff. Pouliot - Tanev could be a good defense pairing when Travis Green rotates his defensemen in and out of the lineup. If he can even be a regular roster player, then I have zero issue with this trade. He proved little to nothing with the Penguins that he was likely to reach his ceiling. In fact, if anything, he noticeably regressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, naslundfan921 said: The 4th that people are whining about should be recouped (if not added to) at the deadline when Vanek gets flipped to a contender. If Pouliot plays well, moving one of the mainstays on D wouldn't be out of the question either (be that at the deadline or the draft) anyone thinking that this move was poor "asset management" just wants to complain and is using that term as an excuse. @J.R. has it correct, its high ceiling for low ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Just now, naslundfan921 said: The 4th that people are whining about should be recouped (if not added to) at the deadline when Vanek gets flipped to a contender. If Pouliot plays well, moving one of the mainstays on D wouldn't be out of the question either (be that at the deadline or the draft) I think that's been a common criticism of Benning - he should be stockpiling picks, but instead he has had the same number going out than in (28 picks in 4 drafts). But it's hard to argue against this trade. Even though Pouliot has struggled, the (remote) potential of having a top-4 PMD still emerge is worth far more than Pedan + 4th. Hopefully though we'll be trading more than just Vanek at the deadline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: Ironic they won back to back cups without Pedan and reaves or any player of that type right? Yes. It's called having Crosby, Malkin and Kessel in your top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, J.R. said: Top 4 ceiling vs bottom pair ceiling. Simple as that. No guarantee either player reaches them of course. Edler - Stecher Pouliot - Tanev Hutton - Gudbranson Del Zotto - Biega That's actually not that bad. Have Del Zotto come in whenever Pouliot is struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, J.R. said: Top 4 ceiling vs bottom pair ceiling. Simple as that. No guarantee either player reaches them of course. No, not quite as simple as that. If Pouliot doesn't reach his ceiling then he is essential worthless. There are plenty of defensemen out there who can get 0 points in 11 games. If Pedan doesn't reach his ceiling, he can still be a physical presence on a bottom pairing. I do agree with your ceiling assessment though, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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