[Trade] Canucks trade Andrey Pedan, 4th-round pick to Penguins for Derrick Pouliot

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, garthsbutcher said:

Sestito who Pitts put on waives I believe would kick the crap out of Pedan

He's quite the trash talker too.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

for sure. If its "just" a confidence thing he may be able to get that back here. If not, it was worth a shot.

 

His stats are actually pretty encouraging. Not to read too much into it but he's had a corsi as high as 58% in 2015/16. I like what Sbisa did for us but he never reached that

 

so if Green/Baumer can help him rebuild some confidence and he doesn't feel like every mistake is a ticket to the AHL.. I dunno, I'm intrigued.

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/poulide01.html

 

People are acting like he's some bum who has coasted since being drafted.  He's 23 and is a two time AHL all-star, he's been developing all along.  To me it sounds like Pittsburgh doesn't have a great development system

[Alflives]

Just now, stawns said:

People are acting like he's some bum who has coasted since being drafted.  He's 23 and is a two time AHL all-star, he's been developing all along.  To me it sounds like Pittsburgh doesn't have a great development system

Maybe it's simply that Pittsburgh is in win now mode, and we are able to allow young guys (with upside) to develop, because we are rebuilding?  We can afford to allow young players to develop on our current roster, but the Pens can't.   Pouliott was going to go on waivers and get nabbed for sure, so the Pens got some help for their farm team in Pedan, and a fourth round pick for a guy they were going to lose for nothing.  

[GreyHatnDart]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

that's an interesting comparison. The "eye test" on Sbisa over the last 2 seasons in particular was wrong and didn't match up with the actual data. He was a solid #5 in terms of metrics like giveaways. Last year he had 50 giveaways (112th overall on total giveaways). Same as Orlov. (https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-giveaways-statistic/2016/)

 

So maybe like Sbisa, Pouliot is also a victim of confirmation bias and people freak out every time he makes a mistake and think it happens more that it really did.

 

 

 

 

See that’s the thing with the old eye test versus new analytics... the fact that he was 112th overall in giveaways(which isn’t bad by any stretch of the imagination) is great for his analytics. Problem was is the timing and how and where those giveaways were. He had numerous “pizzas” in bad spots which gave way to quality chances for the opposing team. A far different type of giveaway than say dishing it up the boards and the opposition picking it up. 

 

I understand and for the most part the analytics side, but I personally tend to lean more on the eye test. The two examples I gave... one would be considered the safe play while the other is just a bonehead move. 

[Dynamic Innovator]

26 minutes ago, oldnews said:

He's quite the trash talker too.

Elite trash talking skillz - for example "F you, you F'n F'r. I'll F you up.  FFFFFF."  Brilliant!

[coastal.view]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe it's simply that Pittsburgh is in win now mode, and we are able to allow young guys (with upside) to develop, because we are rebuilding?  We can afford to allow young players to develop on our current roster, but the Pens can't.   Pouliott was going to go on waivers and get nabbed for sure, so the Pens got some help for their farm team in Pedan, and a fourth round pick for a guy they were going to lose for nothing.  

darn i agree with alf 2x in one day

is that really you alf ?

have you been replaced/ taken over by some other alien?
did your scooter rocket you to some distant place ?

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

darn i agree with alf 2x in one day

is that really you alf ?

have you been replaced/ taken over by some other alien?
did your scooter rocket you to some distant place ?

 

Just doubled up on my meds.  

[coastal.view]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just doubled up on my meds.  

mmm ok . hate to tell you this alf

it's working

[CeeBee51]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just doubled up on my meds.  

Don't spose you'd wanna share?  A few posters really could use some help

[stawns]

3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

This move wasn't made because of pits overflowing D depth,

 

If pits was as high on this kid as the most canucks fans seem to be, they wouldn't have gave up on him.  It wasn't like they were forced to waive him, they could have easily kept him as the extra D and waived Ruhwedel or even Rowney.  And it wasn't like they were desperate for Pedan and 4th round pick that Pouliot was the price they had to pay to get.

 

Really it comes down to a team tried over and over to give him the opportunity to succeed and break out, he just wasn't there, this training camp was his last chance and he didn't bring it.  He wasn't progressing at the NHL so they cashed in what they could for him.

 

A fresh environment could be exactly what he needs, lots of players get stuck in rut and need a second chance.  That's exactly what he's going to get this year.  He could seize this opportunity or he could falter.  For canucks sake lets hope he puts it together and we can cash in on that gained value. 

I'm not sure I get the "rut" part.  He's had a pretty stellar AHL career to this point and the vast majority of young dmen s[end several years in the AHL before making that jump.  OJ may very well end up on a similar path.  I'm not saying he's a slam dunk, but his rate of development isn't even close to as bad as many here think it is.

[oldnews]

36 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

darn i agree with alf 2x in one day

is that really you alf ?

have you been replaced/ taken over by some other alien?
did your scooter rocket you to some distant place ?

 

 

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just doubled up on my meds.  

 

27 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

mmm ok . hate to tell you this alf

it's working

cut it out you two - I have to save some rep for the opening night GDT.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Ballard was never really given a chance to succeed. It's funny because his career died after Vancouver. 

He ran into injury problems if I recall (I pretty sure it was also an injury that caused him to retire).

 

Weird Canuck "luck".  Two guys that were known to be sort of "iron-men" with respect to rarely missing games due to injury (Ballard & Hamhuis).  Both guys then missed action in their first season as a Canuck.

 

Our curse I guess.....

[EternalCanuckFan]

I think PITB had a fair assessment of Pouliot's potential.  He played well in his first extended NHL playing time but has struggled recently.  Hard to know what the Canucks are getting.

 

It is of some concern that he was unable to beat out some guys to make the Penguins team for the past 2 seasons but, having said that, he also had to unseat Kris Letang and now Justin Schultz for playing time.  Both of those guys, IMHO, already fill the role that he would be expected to excel in.  In the case of Schultz, he has done surprisingly well with the Penguins after a few tire fire seasons in Edmonton.  Beyond Letang and Schultz, I don't think there was a good spot for him.  If the Penguins had not acquired Schultz then maybe he would have had a better shot.

 

This was also the first year that he was waiver eligible which, I think, makes a huge difference when management is trying to ice a line up.

 

Pouliot is a reclamation project but his potential is very exciting and something that the Canucks did not have in their system.  IMHO, Stecher is the closest in potential, and even then, his size will always be seen as a disadvantage.  No idea whether Pouliot ever reaches this potential, but I think it's encouraging to see the team have this opportunity.

[Phat Fingers]

5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

This move wasn't made because of pits overflowing D depth,

 

If pits was as high on this kid as the most canucks fans seem to be, they wouldn't have gave up on him.  It wasn't like they were forced to waive him, they could have easily kept him as the extra D and waived Ruhwedel or even Rowney.  And it wasn't like they were desperate for Pedan and 4th round pick that Pouliot was the price they had to pay to get.

 

Really it comes down to a team tried over and over to give him the opportunity to succeed and break out, he just wasn't there, this training camp was his last chance and he didn't bring it.  He wasn't progressing at the NHL so they cashed in what they could for him.

 

A fresh environment could be exactly what he needs, lots of players get stuck in rut and need a second chance.  That's exactly what he's going to get this year.  He could seize this opportunity or he could falter.  For canucks sake lets hope he puts it together and we can cash in on that gained value. 

From reports Derrick had a good camp and came in prepared. He has two LHD puck moving d men ahead of him.  Do you sit him or try to change his game into a shut down/two way depth guy?  

 

Sometimes you have to let the player be who they are. Pits was going to lose him, because they didn’t have room for a puck moving d man in their roster. They needed a different player for their depth bottom guys. Pedan adds to that.  

 

What potential and skill Derrick has is almost absent from our defence. Questions about his ability to bring it to the NHL level are valid, but he wasn’t getting an opportunity to crack a cup champion team is hardly a knock. 

 

No way Pits was going to fix something that wasn’t broken by making room for Derrick. Had Shultz gone after big money, Derrick would be playing in Pits this year. 

 

Their loss our gain. Derrick should be given every opportunity to show his stuff on our rebuilding roster. That there is a glaring need for a player with his skill set plays in his favour. 

 

We will see if he can bring it at the NHL level. Looking forward to seeing what Green can get out of Derrick. Would love to see a pairing or Pouliot and Gudbranson. Guddy played really well with Campbell and they are both younger guys. 

 

EmW

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

From reports Derrick had a good camp and came in prepared. He has two LHD puck moving d men ahead of him.  Do you sit him or try to change his game into a shut down/two way depth guy?  

What reports? Every report I have seen says he didn't have a great camp.

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/09/26/derrick-pouliot-penguins-roster-preseason-mike-sullivan/stories/201709260086

Quote

Asked after Monday’s game whether he’s seeing what he wants to see from Pouliot at this point, Sullivan paused for a beat, then brought up the idea of separating oneself and doing something well enough that it warrants a spot on the roster and in the lineup

“We’re just trying to watch and see how the whole camp evolves,” Sullivan said. “There’s competition for positions. As I said to the players, in order to make an NHL roster you have to find a way to separate yourself from others that warrants a roster spot. What is it that you’re going to bring to the table? What’s your game that’s going to help the Pittsburgh Penguins win? When we sit as a coaching staff, that’s the question I ask the guys when we have these discussions, talk about personnel and even lineups during the course of the season. Who’s going to help us win and why? We have those discussions all the time.”

 

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2017/09/16/day-2-camp-takeaways-pouliot-struggles-reaves-impresses-sullivan/

Quote

Derrick Pouliot has endured a couple of tough days at the beginning of training camp.

The former first-round pick, who is pretty entrenched into bust territory at this point, has been a turnover machine in a couple of scrimmages over the weekend and has made nothing resembling a positive impact.

 

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Sometimes you have to let the player be who they are. Pits was going to lose him, because they didn’t have room for a puck moving d man in their roster. They needed a different player for their depth bottom guys. Pedan adds to that.  

What potential and skill Derrick has is almost absent from our defence. Questions about his ability to bring it to the NHL level are valid, but he wasn’t getting an opportunity to crack a cup champion team is hardly a knock. 

 

No way Pits was going to fix something that wasn’t broken by making room for Derrick. Had Shultz gone after big money, Derrick would be playing in Pits this year. 

 

Their loss our gain. Derrick should be given every opportunity to show his stuff on our rebuilding roster. That there is a glaring need for a player with his skill set plays in his favour. 

 

We will see if he can bring it at the NHL level. Looking forward to seeing what Green can get out of Derrick. Would love to see a pairing or Pouliot and Gudbranson. Guddy played really well with Campbell and they are both younger guys. 

 

EmW

I'm sorry but we don't need to sugar coat it, no he wasn't an good D that just couldn't crack a tough roster, he was downright terrible at the NHL level.  He was our forward version of Greiner, a guy that did ok in the AHL but when he got the NHL completely forgot how to play hockey.  There's no way around it, penguins lost patience with him and felt it was time to move on and retain an asset.

 

Pouliot wasn't NHL ready, no report thought he looked NHL ready, he was competing for extra D man like Pedan was doing with Biega and wiercioch, and he needed to make a statement to earn that spot.  It's summed up pretty well here

 

http://pittsburghhockeynow.com/penguins-training-camp-pouliot-vs-ruhwedel/

 

At the end of the training camp we saw the result, he couldn't beat out pits version of Biega.  Hopefully it results in canucks being the beneficiary of that. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm not sure I get the "rut" part.  He's had a pretty stellar AHL career to this point and the vast majority of young dmen s[end several years in the AHL before making that jump.  OJ may very well end up on a similar path.  I'm not saying he's a slam dunk, but his rate of development isn't even close to as bad as many here think it is.

Hockey writers summed it up pretty good, which is a pretty good response to your reply.

Quote

From the Penguins’ perspective, Pouliot’s problem was not the amount of time he was taking to develop but that his development was beginning to plateau. After the 2016-17 season proved to be as unsuccessful for Pouliot as it was spectacularly successful for the Penguins, it became clear that he wasn’t going to be cracking the roster anytime soon.

Getting a return for Pouliot instead of losing him for nothing on waivers was a smart move on the Penguins’ part. After all, look at the case of Schultz, sometimes struggling players need a change of scenery. The Penguins recognized Pouliot’s value and kept him on their roster so as to maintain his trade value rather than letting him go in a quiet contract dump.

Pouliot simply ran out of time to improve. His stagnant 2016-17 season and lingering inability to gel with the team was the last straw in a long saga of attempting to fit him into the Penguins’ system. A fresh start in Vancouver, where he has a chance to be on the starting roster, will be good for him, just as a draft pick and defenseman will be good for the Penguins, especially if used as fodder for that much-needed third-line center.

 

[stawns]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Hockey writers summed it up pretty good, which is a pretty good response to your reply.

 

So that negates the previous two seasons of AHL all star?

[JM_]

3 hours ago, ThaShady1 said:

See that’s the thing with the old eye test versus new analytics... the fact that he was 112th overall in giveaways(which isn’t bad by any stretch of the imagination) is great for his analytics. Problem was is the timing and how and where those giveaways were. He had numerous “pizzas” in bad spots which gave way to quality chances for the opposing team. A far different type of giveaway than say dishing it up the boards and the opposition picking it up. 

 

I understand and for the most part the analytics side, but I personally tend to lean more on the eye test. The two examples I gave... one would be considered the safe play while the other is just a bonehead move. 

sure but thats when he was forced into 3/4 roles on a depleted team. In his role as a legit bottom pairing guy he's just fine. 

[GreyHatnDart]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

sure but thats when he was forced into 3/4 roles on a depleted team. In his role as a legit bottom pairing guy he's just fine. 

Granted. Regardless of where he was playing though, coughing the puck up the middle of the ice is about the biggest no-no there is for a defenceman. 

 

For what it’s worth I was one of Sbisa’s defenders, but having said that, he made his share of gaffs. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, ThaShady1 said:

Granted. Regardless of where he was playing though, coughing the puck up the middle of the ice is about the biggest no-no there is for a defenceman. 

 

For what it’s worth I was one of Sbisa’s defenders, but having said that, he made his share of gaffs. 

oh for sure there were some beauties