(Proposal) Trade For Number 1.

[TheGuardian_]

Okay I decided to try for the long ball, the Hail Mary.

 

Instead of over valuing a bunch of players not on the team and hoping for the inevitable improvement that will happen because the team is so far down in the standings, use those assets, how ever many are needed to get a player, a stud dman, that might not be available, ever, unless destroying the cap for near a decade, an older player and deal for what every scout is deeming a sure thing.

 

It not taking any more of a chance than the faith most posters already have in the existing prospects, which not all could play on the team even if they were all ready and able.

 

Lock up one spot for 10+ years, a key spot, one the Nucks, if he works out, have never had, the STUD.

 

Prospects don't affect the cap unless they make the team so that opens it up to many teams. As an example Pittsburgh, should they get the #1 they might like the idea of filling their prospect pool in one year, Crosby and Malkin won't be around much longer, ditto Chicago.

 

There would be only five players/prospects I would see on the "hands off list" and at that if any were required then the deal would be lessened considerably.

 

Horvat, Boeser, Demko, Petersson and Tryamkin. The future #1/2 line and Tryamkin with Dahlin and the goalie. That could happen within one at the most 2 years.

 

With a return of the Sedins, as 2nd line and mentors for Dahlin, Petersson and Dahlen, this team will still not be out of the woods over the next 2 years so there will be other good top level draft picks coming along.

 

Just do like Burke did when he decided the Canucks were going to get the Sedins, state the fact and make it happen.

 

The team needs to fill a position and in 4 years there can be/are doubts about other draft picks. Petersson being an exception. Boeser was a surprise to everyone.

 

Most scouts, coaches and GM's agree that a stud dman is the hardest to find, the team rolled the dice and sacrificed the future in drafting OJ so why not on this kid. Go all in, in 3 years the team will look vastly different if they play that year at all.

 

Of course the Nucks may win the lottery and then it maybe trading for the #2 What ever they do it has to be defining if they want the Sedins as mentors.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Dahlin is not for sale.  The exact reason you’re willing to selling the house for him is the exact same season no team will move that pick.

[Gaudette Celly]

So, get the #1 pick without giving up any of our top players or prospects.  What witchcraft is this?

[TheGuardian_]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Dahlin is not for sale.  The exact reason you’re willing to selling the house for him is the exact same season no team will move that pick.

Don't bet on that, Arizona already has OEL and if they got OJ and a number of other prospects with the deal, well they are on an internal cap as well, so tons of young guys on entry level deals might work for them re-signing he current STUD.

 

Any offer would have to be overwhelming, the current NHL roster might have a couple of guys that might push a deal but what is supposed to be the end all be all of the Nucks now? The prospect pool is filled with assets, true most are unproven but that is still their value.

 

If done Pitt could win two more cups, ditto Chicago, their windows are closing and a deal could keep them open for another 4 years or more, Arizona has to show improvement and make some playoff money.

 

To get a long term player move 6 for 1, 7 for 1. If credit is given this management group for filling the cupboards in 3 years then it can be done again only with young players in place now. 

[TheGuardian_]

5 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

So, get the #1 pick without giving up any of our top players or prospects.  What witchcraft is this?

It isn't like the well is dry, there are always more.

[Angry Goose]

43 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

 

Instead of over valuing a bunch of players

then goes on to over value these same players thinking another team will want a bunch of unproven players

[PhillipBlunt]

12 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

So, get the #1 pick without giving up any of our top players or prospects.  What witchcraft is this?

Ask Egg Shen.

[coastal.view]

and you said 5 players are untouchable

and then you seem to infer dahlen will be mentored by the sedins?

wtf

i think pettersson and dahlen both better be available if you wish to get dahlin

demko and trymakin too

holding back bo and brock only is already a bit greedy

 

you will need to overwhelm some team to get the #1 overall this year

but you wish to offer somewhat less then what might be overwhelming

i kinda think that trade would need to start with brock .. plus plus.. maybe brock, joulevi, virt and a 1st

that could get someone's attention

[kloubek]

Actually, I think it is entirely possible.  But it would require either 1) Overpayment so the other team with the #1 can't say no, or 2)  A team who already has a ton defensive prospects.  And still some overpayment.

 

From what I hear, the #1 position is clearly Dahlin and the #2 position is clearly Svechnijov.  After that, the picks from 3 to say, 6 are pretty much a toss-up, but are all considered a step down.  If we were, by the hand of God, to actually get 2OA, I don't think it would take an ungodly amount to get to #1 - especially if that team didn't need a star defenseman.  Say, #2 plus Lind or Dahlen would probably do it I'd think. That all depends on how good the other team thinks any of these players will be.  But if you can get a 2nd or 1st line player in addition to another player who isn't THAT far below the #1 in talent, I do think a team would consider it.   

 

I think once you get to the 3rd pick and lower, it becomes increasingly unlikely.  As much as I love Dahlin, it seems more likely that if we got the #2 that we would be the ones to trade down and pick Boqvist.  It's a risk though since he has an excellent talent as well and might be selected before our pick but I guess the consolation prize and consideration of potentially missing on Boqvist is that there are other defenseman expected to be high on the list like Hughes, Bouchard, and Dobson.  Benning has already shown he isn't afraid to go outside the expected in the draft, so if he deems any of those guys to have high end potential I could see him doing that.

 

With all this said, it's quite rare for draft positions to change. Seems the team that wants to move generally has to pay a premium to do so.

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

21 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Don't bet on that, Arizona already has OEL and if they got OJ and a number of other prospects with the deal, well they are on an internal cap as well, so tons of young guys on entry level deals might work for them re-signing he current STUD.

I would bet on that OEL is a left handed d that yotes would be willing to move if the price is right as he’s a ufa at the end of next year and going to command big numbers. 

 

Dahlin doesnt just immediately become an elite d. He also sells seats. Panthers turned down kadri, gardiner and nylander for ekblad. And dahlin is on another level.  

 

Hypothetically what would you consider a realistic offer from Vancouver that the yotes would consider moving him. 

 

Quote

If done Pitt could win two more cups, ditto Chicago, their windows are closing and a deal could keep them open for another 4 years or more, Arizona has to show improvement and make some playoff money.

Dahlin comes into the nhl next year and makes an immediate impact. Add that he’s on a elc. Why would teams struggling for cap who wanting to win, 

trade away a #1 d that comes at a cost under 900k?

 

just ask yourself. What would the cost be rosy to land mcdavid?  

 

[Phil_314]

We're pretty close to the bottom, might as well gut some vets for picks and older but still serviceable vets, run with the kids who are leading the team anyways (Sven, Bo, Brock) and see if we can get to the 1st pick.  We're tied for 5th worst anyways (Arizona, Buffalo, Ottawa) so if we manage to sell off some more contributors (Edler, Vanek, maybe Sutter, maybe even Tanev and the Twins if they're down to move to a contender Ryan Smyth style to get 1st's where we can, likely 2nd's and prospect each) we might sink low enough to win the first overall.  Teams would need to shed cap to fit them in anyways so we'd probably not look too much worse by plugging in the fill-in's.

e.g. 
Vanek to Tampa for 1st and Callahan (could see them want to go all-in, and their 1st wouldn't be worth that much if they win it all; plus they can keep their studs signed)

If we keep Tanev we could still look pretty good moving forward, he and Hutton have been a solid 2nd pairing.  Losing Eddie's 20 minutes just might allow the team to hemorrhage enough defensively to sink down to that level, while Ben gets to keep growing (he's been underrated this year).  

 

* = presuming they stay anyways, if not move them for lesser versions of themselves as stop gaps; we'd really suck if we lose Sutter, Twins and Tanev so treading with caution just so we don't sink to where Edmonton used to be, but I think the vets we bring back could at least mitigate some of the damage.

 

Sven - Bo - Brock

Danny* - Hank* - Granny

Eriksson - Sutter* - Gagner

Gaunce - Dowd - Virtanen

 

Hutton - Tanev*

MDZ - Biega 
Pouliot - Stecher 

 

Pipeline would be stocked though (Pettersson, Dahlin, Dahlen, Gadjovich, Lind, Demko, Juolevi, Holm, plus top prospects from fire-sale) so it might be addition by subtraction.

[TheGuardian_]

35 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

then goes on to over value these same players thinking another team will want a bunch of unproven players

Like I have stated before quantity or quality. Did I propose a one for one or name a Canuck prospect/player?

 

I did state that overpayment will be necessary, that is hardly overvaluing players of prospects

 

If the internet was around when the Sedins were drafted I wonder how many would be stating it couldn't happen? Or when Gretzky was traded or when ..... all the other hard and thought to be impossible things that happen.

 

This is much more possible.

30 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

and you said 5 players are untouchable

and then you seem to infer dahlen will be mentored by the sedins?

wtf

i think pettersson and dahlen both better be available if you wish to get dahlin

demko and trymakin too

holding back bo and brock only is already a bit greedy

 

you will need to overwhelm some team to get the #1 overall this year

but you wish to offer somewhat less then what might be overwhelming

i kinda think that trade would need to start with brock .. plus plus.. maybe brock, joulevi, virt and a 1st

that could get someone's attention

It would be negotiation from a weak side, so numbers may have to fill in for quality. The prospects the team has now are crap shoots, good ones but numbers would be needed. IF Horvat or Boeser was mentioned then obviously a deal would be much more complicated

 

I would start with just about all the prospects except Petersson.

Available Virtanen, OJ, draft pick swap, maybe even add the 2nd and more.

 

I would not expect the deal to get to the Lindros trade levels.

27 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Hypothetically what would you consider a realistic offer from Vancouver that the yotes would consider moving him.

What would be too much with this team in it's 4 year at the bottom and only two draft picks playing?

The team cannot get rid of the vet contracts so most of the team is set for the next 2+ years.

Realistic, any player/prospect not already on the team and just about any number of them.

 

This kid is not McDavid or Mathews both of those teams had deep pockets and were already selling out. Arizona could use cash but in lieu, take on a bad contract, Bolland, or sign and trade Gudbranson and retain half.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

 

 

9 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

What would be too much with this team in it's 4 year at the bottom and only two draft picks playing?

The team cannot get rid of the vet contracts so most of the team is set for the next 2+ years.

Realistic, any player/prospect not already on the team and just about any number of them.

 

 

9 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

This kid is not McDavid or Mathews both of those teams had deep pockets and were already selling out. Arizona could use cash but in lieu, take on a bad contract, Bolland, or sign and trade Gudbranson and retain half.

This kids is mcdavid level talent but on d. Just as mcdavid is not for sale. Neither is dahlin. There’s a reason why first overall picks are a rarity to getting moved. Add in that the kid is a generational talent and you remove all hope. 

 

If canucks had the first overall pick. Would you move it?  

[TheGuardian_]

Arizona- Needs money, desperate to make the playoffs, internal cap, already has OEL, need depth, could use some additional leadership. Running out of time.

 

So lets not even consider any players with clause contracts.

 

Canucks get Bolland and exchange 1rst's.

Arizona gets - Canucks 1rst and 2nd, Virtanen, OJ, DiPietro, Goldoblin, Baerstchi, 5 million ....  maybe Granlund.

[qwijibo]

The 1st overall pick has only been traded 10 times since the inception of the draft in 1963.  And NEVER in the salary cap era.  Looking at the past trades the team that gave up the 1st overall always ended up regretting the trsde.  Anything is possible.  But in a year with a clear #1 I’d say it’s even less likely than years where there’s no real consensus #1 (like last year).  

[Baer.]

Any GM who trades Dahlin deserves to be fired.

[qwijibo]

11 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Arizona- Needs money, desperate to make the playoffs, internal cap, already has OEL, need depth, could use some additional leadership.

 

So lets not even consider any players with clause contracts.

 

Canucks get Bolland and exchange 1rst's.

Arizona gets - Canucks 1rst and 2nd, Virtanen, OJ, DiPietro, Goldoblin, Baerstchi, 5 million ....  maybe Granlund.

You can’t include cash in a deal.  You can retain cap. That’s it. Also. You’re talking about sending 6 contracts to Arizona (not including the draft picks). They’re already sitting at 50/50 contract max.  So this isn’t even remotely possible.  (Ok. They do have a number of UFA’s, but it still means not re-signing any of their existing pending UFA’s in order to fit in the pieces you want to send) 

[JM_]

So Arizona, what will it take to get the 1st overall from you?

 

Well Canucks, we open with Boeser, your 2018 1st, 2019 1st and Juolevi. 

 

It just wont be worth it. 

[flickyoursedin]

No team in their right mind is gonna trade the first for a bunch of okay prospects. To garner value start adding quality instead of more okay pieces to get it done. If you want the first overall be prepared to give up Boeser + our first or Pettersson, Juolevi and our 1rst.

[TheGuardian_]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

 

 

 

This kids is mcdavid level talent but on d. Just as mcdavid is not for sale. Neither is dahlin. There’s a reason why first overall picks are a rarity to getting moved. Add in that the kid is a generational talent and you remove all hope. 

 

If canucks had the first overall pick. Would you move it?  

Each team has different needs for different reasons. The Canucks are not cash strapped, they have a very generous stable owner. Attendance while dropping is not critical yet, apparently there are tons of prospects in the system and management is content with the status quo.

I would move the #1 for what the team needs, not prospects but young star players.

If NYI offered up their 1rst, Barzal and a couple of prospects/draft picks, took Eriksson's contract off the books but NYI would not do that because making a deal for this kid is likely trading for the future.

 

If I could get players like Draisatl, Puljujarvi, exchange picks and Eriksson's contract, It would be might be worth it. But the Canucks need those types of players, that is just about their only need except for a player like this kid. And because Vancouver is in the state it is and in extreme need of a STUD, moving the pick would need more than that. Heck Edmonton might even offer more than that. Their window is opening now.