(Rumour) Canucks shopping G Anders Nilsson (Friedman)

[oldnews]

12 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Believe me I totally agree with what you're saying.  Practice used to be and should be like the locker room.  But unfortunately it isn't.  In any case I'd say it wouldn't have any affect on the relationship between the two anyway.  Nilsson is either going to perform or not and Travis can say what he wants about it.  

 

The team doesn't owe anyone access to those.  The fact it isn't closed to the public and press - perhaps should be in question - or at the very least - the team has every right to pick and choose who they enable to be present where there are sensitive, arguably inside, strategic, etc  matters in play.  At the very least, media people that feed off of this stuff - whomever publicized those Nilsson interactions - would be excluded were it up to me - they lack common sense professional discretion, in favour of attempting to convert matters like that into their own career capital. 

[Wilbur]

16 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

They should see what he can do then instead of getting rid of Nilsson first

If they have the confidence in their goaltending depth I'm fine without seeing what Demko can do first.  If they wanted to see first sure, I'm fine with it, but 3 goalie rotations tend to be really awkward so wouldn't blame management if they didn't want to.  Worst case scenario is Demko falls flat so you call up Bachman for the remainder of the season.

[riffraff]

14 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

The team doesn't owe anyone access to those.  The fact it isn't closed to the public and press - perhaps should be in question - or at the very least - the team has every right to pick and choose who they enable to be present where there are sensitive, arguably inside, strategic, etc  matters in play.  At the very least, media people that feed off of this stuff - whomever publicized those Nilsson interactions - would be excluded were it up to me - they lack common sense professional discretion, in favour of attempting to convert matters like that into their own career capital. 

Agree 100%

 

a shortsighted decisiOn by a media member to publicize those comments.

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, riffraff said:

Agree 100%

 

a shortsighted decisiOn by a media member to publicize those comments.

 

16 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

The team doesn't owe anyone access to those.  The fact it isn't closed to the public and press - perhaps should be in question - or at the very least - the team has every right to pick and choose who they enable to be present where there are sensitive, arguably inside, strategic, etc  matters in play.  At the very least, media people that feed off of this stuff - whomever publicized those Nilsson interactions - would be excluded were it up to me - they lack common sense professional discretion, in favour of attempting to convert matters like that into their own career capital. 

Do other teams fall under such pathetic scrutiny? From this latest debacle, to Dan Murphy's tattling on Gudbranson, the media tied to the team, and the losers working for 1040/Province/every other asinine media source are so parasitic that they turn what is a regular sports team into a soap opera for fans who don't know better.

 

If I were the Canucks, I'd can Dan "Dead Eyes" Murphy, and severely tighten up the press protocol.

[Alflives]

49 minutes ago, oldnews said:

not sure how much access any of us have in terms of assessing how 'in shape' every last player is.

Each player - ie Virtanen has different challenges to overcome - big, young player - shoulder surgery early in his post-draft career - and in addition, nowhere near what his mature strength (or endurance) is likely to be (will in part depend on his work in the process).  Most men don't hit their peaks of strength until their mid20s.  There is the size, there is the balances between building strength and what type of strength, vs (cardio) conditioning - and how they impact one another.  Not an easy balance for a young person just becoming a professional - and then, even if there is consistent off ice effort, a good overall commitment to training, etc there are still the issues of application / on-ice consistency etc in addition.

Likewise with Pouliot - who nevertheless has played over 18 minutes 26x this year, and over 20 minutes a dozen times.  Is he used to that over 82 game NHL seasons?  Probably not - so perhaps it's not as much not being in condition as it is sustaining/enduring over the longer haul.  If there were signs he couldn't handle it in the shorter term (relative conditioning) then I doubt Green ever would have utilized him as extensively.  And then there is the mental conditioning - the consistency - etc that also factors in.

Hutton - it's hard to say Hutton 'lacks conditioning' - although he is also young - with his own path the NHL - who knows what his own history of conditiioning efforts have been.  To assume he could be in 'way better' shape - do we know that?

Nilsson however is 27 years old - making 3 million.....undoubtedly there are different expectations of him from a coaches' viewpoint.   What we can't assume is to know the relationship of Green to Nilsson.  A coach has a responsibility to challenge/push that player if he thinks they're not improving/working hard enough/consistent enough.   Do they overstate/push too hard sometimes? (probably inevitabel - you simply can't always get every nuance 'right').    But apparently Green has stated that he's pleased by Nilsson's responses regardless.  I think Nilsson has shown tremendous potential at times this year - but a fairly big inconsistency gap between those performances and some less inspiring ones - might be the reason Green pushes him harder (perhaps he sees more to gain for NIlsson).    Some people wonder why Markstrom commands so many starts - I think that's because he's better proven his ability to battle night in and night out.  If anything, Markstrom has shown a remarkably consistent ability to keep the team in most games, often after having given up an early lead (many of them not the best goals to give up, but what he's done thereafter has been impressive imo), and often being plain overmatched, particularly at the center position for much of the year.  Markstrom hasn't been perfect of course, but he seems mentally strong, at least his performance as games progress seem to suggest that - he's consistent and seems confident, relatively big and athletic - I've really liked Markstrom's further emergence this year.   I think he's earning his starts and wouldn't be letting go of a goaltender like him at this stage - particularly when you don't necessarily get value on goaltenders in the trade market.

I don’t know where I saw, or heard the following:  Jake was not in good shape, and was overweight.  Poulliot was a conditioning issue.  Boucher needed to commit to fitness.  Nilsson needed to get into shape.  And Hutton...IMHAO he’s chubby looking.  The first four guys have now, or have in the recent past had issues with their fitness.  As for Hutton, I just see him as looking out of shape, because he’s got (Krutov) cheeks.  

True that guys often don’t mature until their mid twenties.  I think it’s likely more with these players though.  I think they lack off ice commitment to be their most fit.  Considering it’s their profession, I’d say it’s a lack of professionalism.  

I agree completely with you point about aerobic fitness improving with age, and some guys simply aren’t ready until they are older, no matter how hard they train.  I offer a third theory.  Some guys, no matter how hard they train, just don’t have the natural aerobic capacity to carry minutes, or recover (shift to shift) to compete at the NHL level.  

[VegasCanuck]

6 hours ago, riffraff said:

Why?

 

what could he possibly return?

Contract space!

 

To another team: Nilsson and 6th round pick

 

To Van: 7th round pick, free contract that can be used on other free agents 

 

Something like that at least

[stawns]

6 hours ago, goalie13 said:

Sure he has earned a shot, but is it the right thing to do right now?  Utica is in a playoff spot.  Demko is likely better off playing the rest of the season there instead of playing meaningless games in the NHL.

 

Maybe they are looking to make room for next year.  Nilsson has one more year on his contract.  If they can trade him now then they wouldn't have to worry about what to do with him next year.

If they moved Nilsson, it would be Bachman called up, not Demko.

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don’t know where I saw, or heard the following:  Jake was not in good shape, and was overweight.  Poulliot was a conditioning issue.  Boucher needed to commit to fitness.  Nilsson needed to get into shape.  And Hutton...IMHAO he’s chubby looking.  The first four guys have now, or have in the recent past had issues with their fitness.  As for Hutton, I just see him as looking out of shape, because he’s got (Krutov) cheeks.  

True that guys often don’t mature until their mid twenties.  I think it’s likely more with these players though.  I think they lack off ice commitment to be their most fit.  Considering it’s their profession, I’d say it’s a lack of professionalism.  

I agree completely with you point about aerobic fitness improving with age, and some guys simply aren’t ready until they are older, no matter how hard they train.  I offer a third theory.  Some guys, no matter how hard they train, just don’t have the natural aerobic capacity to carry minutes, or recover (shift to shift) to compete at the NHL level.  

The only guy who I''d consider those comments valid in relation to is Boucher last season - who you could witness the effects upon quite readily by watching games and seeing him fade.

 

[oldnews]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

 

Do other teams fall under such pathetic scrutiny? From this latest debacle, to Dan Murphy's tattling on Gudbranson, the media tied to the team, and the losers working for 1040/Province/every other asinine media source are so parasitic that they turn what is a regular sports team into a soap opera for fans who don't know better.

 

If I were the Canucks, I'd can Dan "Dead Eyes" Murphy, and severely tighten up the press protocol.

Probably - at least in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Winnipeg - where there is such rabid interest.

 

The team has long needed a media relations officer that manages the relationship to media prudently imo.

[Jester13]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don’t know where I saw, or heard the following:  Jake was not in good shape, and was overweight.  Poulliot was a conditioning issue.  Boucher needed to commit to fitness.  Nilsson needed to get into shape.  And Hutton...IMHAO he’s chubby looking.  The first four guys have now, or have in the recent past had issues with their fitness.  As for Hutton, I just see him as looking out of shape, because he’s got (Krutov) cheeks.  

True that guys often don’t mature until their mid twenties.  I think it’s likely more with these players though.  I think they lack off ice commitment to be their most fit.  Considering it’s their profession, I’d say it’s a lack of professionalism.  

I agree completely with you point about aerobic fitness improving with age, and some guys simply aren’t ready until they are older, no matter how hard they train.  I offer a third theory.  Some guys, no matter how hard they train, just don’t have the natural aerobic capacity to carry minutes, or recover (shift to shift) to compete at the NHL level.  

Bingo. 

[JustABandwagoner]

11 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Contract space!

 

To another team: Nilsson and 6th round pick

 

To Van: 7th round pick, free contract that can be used on other free agents 

 

Something like that at least

Nah. I rather give him away for future considerations than ur offer :/ 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

The only guy who I''d consider those comments valid in relation to is Boucher last season - who you could witness the effects upon quite readily by watching games and seeing him fade.

 

You don’t remember Jake coming to camp at over 230 pounds?  Green made comments about Pouliot, when we acquired him.  And he just said Nilssen needed to get into shape.  I’m not saying (other than Nilsson) these guys are not currently in shape.  I’m suggesting their history indicates they could be, and that could contribute to poor play.  

I also suggested these guys just migh physical not be able to be NHL fit, because they don’t have the natural aerobic capacity.  

[mll]

12 minutes ago, oldnews said:

The only guy who I''d consider those comments valid in relation to is Boucher last season - who you could witness the effects upon quite readily by watching games and seeing him fade.

 

Green just this week:

 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Bingo. 

Wouldn’t Nilssen’s lack of fitness be like an aerobic’s instructor not being fit enough to teach for the entire 1 hour class, without keeping good form and leadership?  What would happen to that unfit instructor?  FIRED!!!!

I really think we have several guys that might need to realize they are darned close to being fired right out of the NHL.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Green just this week:

 

For Pouliot I'd expect it to be more of a challenge - as a younger player who has never played a full NHL season.

For Hutton - in his third full nHL season - maybe there's more than just the generic relevence of that comment.

[Alflives]

Just now, oldnews said:

For Pouliot I'd expect it to be more of a challenge - as a younger player who has never played a full NHL season.

For Hutton - in his third full nHL season - maybe there's more than just the generic relevence of that comment.

Are you suggesting Hutton might not have the natural aerobic capacity to play at this level no matter how hard he works out?  IMHAO aerobic capacity is a gift, like a lot of skills.  It can be improved, but there is a predetermined ceiling for each person depending on their genetics.  I think the Twins are incredibly gifted in this area, but guys like Hutton, Poulliot, Boucher, and Virtanen just might not be.  

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Wouldn’t Nilssen’s lack of fitness be like an aerobic’s instructor not being fit enough to teach for the entire 1 hour class, without keeping good form and leadership?  What would happen to that unfit instructor?  FIRED!!!!

I really think we have several guys that might need to realize they are darned close to being fired right out of the NHL.

Completely agree. What bothers me most about this is that we have veterans that are supposed to be mentoring these guys, and now it doesn't seem like it's rubbing off. This shouldn't happen. The coach shouldn't have to call out players like this - I'm glad he did, but he shouldn't have to. 

 

One of my biggest peeves is unprofessionalism. 

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, mll said:

Green just this week:

 

i think Pouliot will be given another season here now that he knows what the coach expects of him.

 

Hutton on the other hand has likely been told for the last two years, and if he's still not getting it, it might be time to move on.

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Are you suggesting Hutton might not have the natural aerobic capacity to play at this level no matter how hard he works out?  IMHAO aerobic capacity is a gift, like a lot of skills.  It can be improved, but there is a predetermined ceiling for each person depending on their genetics.  I think the Twins are incredibly gifted in this area, but guys like Hutton, Poulliot, Boucher, and Virtanen just might not be.  

not what I was saying - and what I was suggesting is that I'd be more concerned about a 3rd yr player fading than I would a younger, 1st yr NHL pro.

whether it's nature or nurture with Hutton is anyone's guess.

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, mll said:

Green just this week:

 

Thanks for posting this.  I was actually referring to other times I heard TG speak about Poulliot.  I just thought, from my own observation, that Hutton looked in poor condition for an NHL player.

 

being unfit, and sucking for air, can really hurt decision making.  Maybe a guys like Hutton and Virtanen, who seem to make poor (low IQ) decisions are actually fighting fitness more than anything?  I really hope this is the case with both, because then there is still hope for them both.  If they were Sedin fit, and had natural high aerobic capacity and still made bone-head plays, then I thing we have two duds.