Phat Fingers Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Fanuck said: I pointed to something similar in another thread that people didn't like hearing, and had a LOT of bs replies to. That was the fact that all these 'elite' skating smaller stature players like Guderau, Johnson, Kucherov, Point, Arvidson, ect.... all virtually disappeared in these playoffs. They were nowhere to be found when the physicality rose to stratospheric levels and time/space to skate/dangle was not there. Sure, people came back with Rat-boy being in the finals but I don't think it's debatable that the majority of smaller guys who dominated the reg season didn't show up in the post season strangely enough. And I don't mean their production dropped off due to the nature of lower scoring playoff hockey - I mean these small guys were shadows of their regular season performances. I mean was it just a coincidence or a 'one-off' post season? That said I do wonder about a kid like QH - anyone thinking he's more elite than guys like Gudreau, Kucherov, Point ect...and that he somehow has something these other superstars lack which will make him immune to the physical intensity of playoff hockey is dreaming imo. No, I'm not saying he can't be successful, just asking how he's different than these other stars who made zero impact in the playoffs? Take the Homer glasses off people and just think about it for a minute. Post every SCF, there is a need to try and replicate the makeup style of the winning club. One team does it with size, one with speed, one with at least 2 generational players, one with defence etc... St Louis had all the chips fall into place, including Chara's injury to come away with the win. Looking at every team that wins the final, timing and luck play a huge roll. Missed calls, hot goalies, injuries, league rule changes in the final to overwhelmingly favour one team etc... One key component is drafting. Finding those players that others miss, like Paryako and Binnington. Drafting has evolved and JB is building a fast hockey team. The team he is constructing is a smart hockey team and a confident hockey team. Next year size could lose to speed, or the smart team wins, or the underdog Cinderella team wins. It is variable. Tryingto follow a new trend, losing focus on a future concept can completely unravel a good team. The Leafs have been a club that lacked it's own internal compass and followed trends. Better to be a trend setter. Trend setting teams are the ones with rings. Edited June 14, 2019 by Phat Fingers 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 12 hours ago, Fanuck said: I pointed to something similar in another thread that people didn't like hearing, and had a LOT of bs replies to. That was the fact that all these 'elite' skating smaller stature players like Guderau, Johnson, Kucherov, Point, Arvidson, ect.... all virtually disappeared in these playoffs. They were nowhere to be found when the physicality rose to stratospheric levels and time/space to skate/dangle was not there. Sure, people came back with Rat-boy being in the finals but I don't think it's debatable that the majority of smaller guys who dominated the reg season didn't show up in the post season strangely enough. And I don't mean their production dropped off due to the nature of lower scoring playoff hockey - I mean these small guys were shadows of their regular season performances. I mean was it just a coincidence or a 'one-off' post season? That said I do wonder about a kid like QH - anyone thinking he's more elite than guys like Gudreau, Kucherov, Point ect...and that he somehow has something these other superstars lack which will make him immune to the physical intensity of playoff hockey is dreaming imo. No, I'm not saying he can't be successful, just asking how he's different than these other stars who made zero impact in the playoffs? Take the Homer glasses off people and just think about it for a minute. Ditto and good points. The other thing that also disappeared for those teams are also solid goaltending from there goalies. I believe the two teams that had the best goaltending performance for these playoffs were in the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 10 hours ago, IBatch said: It was a strange playoffs given top teams were routed by lower seeds right off the hop. I agree we won’t know how our players will react or how well they will do until we make the playoffs and that so far at least it’s the bigger and heavier teams winning cups since PIT won back to back, possession was out the window and speed speed speed was the new flavour of the times... Canucks should just continue to developed the core they already have and hopefully when the playoffs start those players will be ready to compete with tenacity and skill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vannuck59 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 no the more you draft and have success with your picks the better you will be , lucky drafting teams win cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said: Canucks should just continue to developed the core they already have and hopefully when the playoffs start those players will be ready to compete with tenacity and skill. I agree sir. That’s for the handle. Might have been a waste of our first rounder (especially with Stajanov too) but man could that guy fight and he was huge...better skater then Gino and arguably a better fighter too...out answer to Sandy McCarthy who was laying waste to all the big guys in the league at the time. Always wondered why we didn’t keep him (off to Philly to protect Lindros ...which is funny) longer, had a lot of promise and could really hit too and skate well for a guy his size. I think Horvat and JV will be beasts come playoff time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, IBatch said: Again your missing the point. Bouchard was better at almost everything but skating last year and slipped to ten. Because now skating is set at a new premium over passing, size (and physical attributes that go with it), hockey IQ, stickhandling, shooting, character etc. Of course if all things were equal they’d take the bigger guy, and of course teams won’t pass up on phenoms no matter their size either. Again Burke pointed out the first three things GMs were looking at was skating skating skating (basically they value that at a premium higher than the rest). that pushes all the other important skills down the list. I’m not a clairvoyant and don’t know if the past two years is enough to make GMs think twice about their draft choices, but I will say that for as long as I’ve watched hockey teams have continually adjusted their teams based on whose winning now. Always. We got the trap thanks to NJ and expansion at the time...mimicking is a big part of how the game evolves. PHI bear everyone up and won back to back cups and started an arms race which evolved into enforcers which lasted all the way until just a few years ago. Heck we did it right away after losing to Boston (Kassian) , and even ended up hiring Benning...just like we did with Messier and Keenan in 94. Calgary did it through the entire 80’s trying to keep up to EDM. It might not be enough YET for things to revert, but I do think there will be a course correction and that teams will definitely looking to balance things out....because that’s what St. Louis has, an incredibly well balanced lineup that also happens to have a big mobile (not fast) defense. And some big bodies upfront too. I’m curious as to what GMs do with their first picks this year, and if guys that are equal in everything but skating and size which ones will go first. Will teams pass on skating and pick the larger player even though he skates 15 second laps instead of 14? Or is skating still at the same premium? Guess we will find out soon. He wasn't 'better at almost everything' and projects as a second pair D IMO. THAT'S why he 'dropped'. It would seem other teams agreed with me. I was frankly more shocked to see Dobson and Smith drop. Edited June 14, 2019 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: He wasn't 'better at almost everything' and projects as a second pair D IMO. THAT'S why he 'dropped'. It would seem other teams agreed with me. I was frankly more shocked to see Dobson and Smith drop. Don’t be like that. He was predicted to go around 6 last year, EDM didn’t even have a jersey ready for him because they had zero belief he’d still be available. If you’d like I could waste some time quoting what ISS, THN, SN, McKenzie and others thought of him but I won’t given it’s obvious your personal opinion of him doesn’t line up with what the experts said at the time. Since the draft THN ranks him 13th best prospect in the world behind only Makar and Hughes. Dobson and Smith are much, much lower. Only EP and Hughes have ranked that high for Canucks prospects the last 15 years. OJ (who they’ve always been high on) best rank was 23, Boeser 22. They project him to be a number one defenseman like Alex P in St Louis or Carlson in WSH. Not a second pairing guy. Two years in a row voted as best defenseman in the OHL, and of last years playoffs where he played 30 minutes a game and scored at a 2 PPG pace, the same production MT had his draft year as a forward . I’m stoked we picked Hughes given the experts rank him higher, but it’s too early yet to say who will end up the better NHLer. One will be a rover, the other do a lot of everything well but won’t be found behind the other goalies net often. Subban and Weber would be their peak but Subban can crush guys too, clear the net and pin guys to he boards where as Hughes will have to rely on skating, stickhandling etc. He’s like a forward playing the defense, Rafalski type maybe or Vatanen or if we are really lucky Housley (but he has a ton of work to do on his shot to get to that level). All things being the same and if he was drafted this year instead, we’d be arguing whether to pick Byram or Bouchard if we could Broberg, Seider and Soderstrom wouldn’t even be in the discussion of going in the first round necessarily last year. My bet is with his elite passing ability he will unleash McDavid and rack up points on their PP in the next couple of years, maybe even this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathrowe Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 14 hours ago, Fanuck said: I pointed to something similar in another thread that people didn't like hearing, and had a LOT of bs replies to. That was the fact that all these 'elite' skating smaller stature players like Guderau, Johnson, Kucherov, Point, Arvidson, ect.... all virtually disappeared in these playoffs. They were nowhere to be found when the physicality rose to stratospheric levels and time/space to skate/dangle was not there. Sure, people came back with Rat-boy being in the finals but I don't think it's debatable that the majority of smaller guys who dominated the reg season didn't show up in the post season strangely enough. And I don't mean their production dropped off due to the nature of lower scoring playoff hockey - I mean these small guys were shadows of their regular season performances. I mean was it just a coincidence or a 'one-off' post season? That said I do wonder about a kid like QH - anyone thinking he's more elite than guys like Gudreau, Kucherov, Point ect...and that he somehow has something these other superstars lack which will make him immune to the physical intensity of playoff hockey is dreaming imo. No, I'm not saying he can't be successful, just asking how he's different than these other stars who made zero impact in the playoffs? Take the Homer glasses off people and just think about it for a minute. I'm late replying to this one so sorry if someone already pointed this out. But that Torey Krug guy just had a great playoffs and he is right around the same size as Q. Hughes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathrowe Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Don’t be like that. He was predicted to go around 6 last year, EDM didn’t even have a jersey ready for him because they had zero belief he’d still be available. If you’d like I could waste some time quoting what ISS, THN, SN, McKenzie and others thought of him but I won’t given it’s obvious your personal opinion of him doesn’t line up with what the experts said at the time. Since the draft THN ranks him 13th best prospect in the world behind only Makar and Hughes. Dobson and Smith are much, much lower. Only EP and Hughes have ranked that high for Canucks prospects the last 15 years. OJ (who they’ve always been high on) best rank was 23, Boeser 22. They project him to be a number one defenseman like Alex P in St Louis or Carlson in WSH. Not a second pairing guy. Two years in a row voted as best defenseman in the OHL, and of last years playoffs where he played 30 minutes a game and scored at a 2 PPG pace, the same production MT had his draft year as a forward . I’m stoked we picked Hughes given the experts rank him higher, but it’s too early yet to say who will end up the better NHLer. One will be a rover, the other do a lot of everything well but won’t be found behind the other goalies net often. Subban and Weber would be their peak but Subban can crush guys too, clear the net and pin guys to he boards where as Hughes will have to rely on skating, stickhandling etc. He’s like a forward playing the defense, Rafalski type maybe or Vatanen or if we are really lucky Housley (but he has a ton of work to do on his shot to get to that level). All things being the same and if he was drafted this year instead, we’d be arguing whether to pick Byram or Bouchard if we could Broberg, Seider and Soderstrom wouldn’t even be in the discussion of going in the first round necessarily last year. My bet is with his elite passing ability he will unleash McDavid and rack up points on their PP in the next couple of years, maybe even this year. I think the reason Edmonton didn't have a jersey ready is because they are a mess and couldn't pull their heads out of their butts. My understanding was that Bouchard dropped a bit due to concerns about his lateral skating, he is a good enough skater is straight lines but was able to be beat by skilled shifty players that force him to try to move east and west. I personally would have been extremely upset if we took Bouchard over Hughes last year. Going into this draft I'm really hoping we come away with Zegras or Boldy, either one of these guys would fit in perfectly in our top 6. With some much uncertainty in the top ten I hadn't put much thought into us getting a Dach or Cozens but it could very well play out that way as well. going to be a really long wait for this event next week! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Don’t be like that. He was predicted to go around 6 last year, EDM didn’t even have a jersey ready for him because they had zero belief he’d still be available. If you’d like I could waste some time quoting what ISS, THN, SN, McKenzie and others thought of him but I won’t given it’s obvious your personal opinion of him doesn’t line up with what the experts said at the time. Since the draft THN ranks him 13th best prospect in the world behind only Makar and Hughes. Dobson and Smith are much, much lower. Only EP and Hughes have ranked that high for Canucks prospects the last 15 years. OJ (who they’ve always been high on) best rank was 23, Boeser 22. They project him to be a number one defenseman like Alex P in St Louis or Carlson in WSH. Not a second pairing guy. Two years in a row voted as best defenseman in the OHL, and of last years playoffs where he played 30 minutes a game and scored at a 2 PPG pace, the same production MT had his draft year as a forward . I’m stoked we picked Hughes given the experts rank him higher, but it’s too early yet to say who will end up the better NHLer. One will be a rover, the other do a lot of everything well but won’t be found behind the other goalies net often. Subban and Weber would be their peak but Subban can crush guys too, clear the net and pin guys to he boards where as Hughes will have to rely on skating, stickhandling etc. He’s like a forward playing the defense, Rafalski type maybe or Vatanen or if we are really lucky Housley (but he has a ton of work to do on his shot to get to that level). All things being the same and if he was drafted this year instead, we’d be arguing whether to pick Byram or Bouchard if we could Broberg, Seider and Soderstrom wouldn’t even be in the discussion of going in the first round necessarily last year. My bet is with his elite passing ability he will unleash McDavid and rack up points on their PP in the next couple of years, maybe even this year. Agreed Bouchard is a stud, had him ranked super close to Hughes last year due to the fact he is right handed as well. Skating is the only flaw i saw in his game and i still think it is above average. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Brobidus said: Firstly, any junior player getting time in the KHL should have more attention than they're getting. But let me give a go at summarising some of these scouting reports. The MHL is the junior league, and the better players in the league typically score a lot. It would be fair to compare it to the Swedish junior league. The MHL is the top junior league in Russia. It is somewhat comparable to Canadian junior leagues except that it’s even more uneven than those. Some teams in the MHL are really good while others are terrible. MHL numbers should always be investigated further instead of just checking the totals. Podkolzin played most of his games against the top teams in the league and didn’t have a chance to pad his stats against some of the weaker teams – that’s why sample size is an important factor. If he had stayed in the MHL, he most likely would have started to dominate at that level pretty quickly, and his numbers at the end of the season would have looked very impressive. But instead, the organization decided it’s better for his development to make the jump to the VHL. 7 hours ago, Brobidus said: The VHL is between the Allsvenskan and Liiga in terms of difficulty, but it is notoriously hard to score goals here. Yes; especially for a 17yr old boy to get significant ice time on one of the best teams in that league. 7 hours ago, Brobidus said: Podkolzin has an awkward skating stride All the reports I have considered his skating as one of his strengths. 7 hours ago, Brobidus said: Does anyone get Nichushkin vibes from Podz? Even as a Jr. Nich had a huge man's physic and could skate like the wind, which were his greatest assets. He could also score a lot of goals, which disappeared after his injury. The real problem for Nich is that he was hopeless defensively and leaving Dallas to return to Russia didn't help his development. I recall there was talk of Nich being a 'prima dona' around the draft. Pod is very good at both ends of the ice and is a very hard worker. He also referred to as 'the pit bull'. These traits make his floor higher than whatever Nuch has shown in the nhl. Pod's ceiling is very high. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 7 hours ago, filthycanuck said: I'll gamble with upside, over a guy that just makes it anyday. Ive seen enough Canuck draft picks that just keep the wheel spinning so to speak and not have that superstar potential. The game you were reffering to I think was one of the California teams (LA I believe), yes thats quite a goal, but theres been many players that showed up in the league getting their feet wet making highlight reel goals only to disappear. This debate can go on and on, of what ifs. If your basis for not trading a proven commodity over an unknown, would you trade Gaudette if you offered, lets say, Noah Dobson? Noah Dobson hasn't done anything regardless of where his draft status is over Gaudette, would you say no to Dobson? I clearly stated originally I would consider trading Gaudette for a dman further along in his development. Especially if we can’t move Sutter. Noah Dobson for sure that would be a hockey trade I would be more onboard with if we were to trade Gaudette. Dobson is looking like he is going to push for a spot on the isles blue line this summer. How many Canucks draft picks have you seen win a hobey baker and develop like Gaudette? We don’t really have any comparables. You aren’t very very high on him I get it. The discussion was around trading him for a late first rounder. Don’t forget that. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 If Seider were in last years draft...I would still have him ahead of Bouchard...but behind Quinn...if Bouchard of last year was in this years draft...he would be even lower in my ranking. Seider can skate circles around Bouchard, he can hit better and is almost as good at passing....and is playing against men....not boys... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Don’t be like that. He was predicted to go around 6 last year, EDM didn’t even have a jersey ready for him because they had zero belief he’d still be available. If you’d like I could waste some time quoting what ISS, THN, SN, McKenzie and others thought of him but I won’t given it’s obvious your personal opinion of him doesn’t line up with what the experts said at the time. Since the draft THN ranks him 13th best prospect in the world behind only Makar and Hughes. Dobson and Smith are much, much lower. Only EP and Hughes have ranked that high for Canucks prospects the last 15 years. OJ (who they’ve always been high on) best rank was 23, Boeser 22. They project him to be a number one defenseman like Alex P in St Louis or Carlson in WSH. Not a second pairing guy. Two years in a row voted as best defenseman in the OHL, and of last years playoffs where he played 30 minutes a game and scored at a 2 PPG pace, the same production MT had his draft year as a forward . I’m stoked we picked Hughes given the experts rank him higher, but it’s too early yet to say who will end up the better NHLer. One will be a rover, the other do a lot of everything well but won’t be found behind the other goalies net often. Subban and Weber would be their peak but Subban can crush guys too, clear the net and pin guys to he boards where as Hughes will have to rely on skating, stickhandling etc. He’s like a forward playing the defense, Rafalski type maybe or Vatanen or if we are really lucky Housley (but he has a ton of work to do on his shot to get to that level). All things being the same and if he was drafted this year instead, we’d be arguing whether to pick Byram or Bouchard if we could Broberg, Seider and Soderstrom wouldn’t even be in the discussion of going in the first round necessarily last year. My bet is with his elite passing ability he will unleash McDavid and rack up points on their PP in the next couple of years, maybe even this year. Don't be like what? He was rated to go around 6 by some scouting services. Other had him closer to where he went and others still in the teens (anywhere from 4th to 18th from what I can see). It would seem a good number of them and reality both concurred with me. He's got a high floor and a near certainty to be an NHL player. Some scouting services give that more weight than others. Some (and I) do not. He projects as a good, 2nd pair offensive D. Nothing wrong with that but there where better, more skilled, more complete, or higher ceiling players available. And yes, most of them were as good or better skaters as well as part of that higher ceiling/ability to translate their skills to the NHL. Some also had size, some didn't. Sorry, wasn't overly high on him in what has been a peak year for him in his draft year, and I haven't seen anything to alter that. https://lastwordonhockey.com/2018/04/06/evan-bouchard-scouting-report-2018-nhl-draft/ Quote Bouchard could become a top defenceman at the next level, however, it is more likely that with his defensive issues, he is more of a second pair player. He can be a real threat on the power play though, and should be able to put up points if he properly develops. Here's some more quotes: Quote So, what’s the hang-up? There are legitimate concerns about Bouchard’s skating and commitment to the defensive side of the game. Quote For all that’s been made about Bouchard’s gaudy statistical production, not nearly enough questions are being asked about how he accrued those points. At even-strength, he was able to create offence by playing an active role in transition — both when it came to carrying the puck through the neutral zone or joining the rush as the second or third option. Watching Bouchard play, it’s fair to question whether he can contribute in that same capacity at the NHL level. Quote Don’t let anyone tell you Bouchard’s mobility isn’t an issue. I can’t add anything that Dayal didn’t cover in extensive detail in his article on the topic just a few days prior, but I can reassert the position therein. If you didn’t read it or don’t have any desire to for some strange reason, Bouchard’s top-speed is fine, but his first two steps, edgework, and lateral movement all need significant improvement. It’s possible that Bouchard can overcome this flaw in his game or that he could improve with time. If Bouchard doesn’t, though, it’s going to limit his upside. It will turn him from a potential top pair, minute-munching defenceman that can contribute in both phases of special teams to a third pair power play specialist. Sure, Bouchard’s skating is the only major flaw in his game, but that’s a significant part of playing in today’s NHL. That’s the risk with Bouchard. Quote While Evan Bouchard has decent speed going both forwards and backward, he struggles with his turns, edges and acceleration. Unfortunately, the flaws in his skating were magnified on a regular basis due to his propensity to float around and remain flat-footed. This will undoubtedly hamper Bouchard’s effectiveness in some facets of the game once he graduates into the pro ranks. For starters, he won’t be as effective as a puck rushing defenceman compared to junior due to his inability to create separation with his first few strides. Without the puck, expect Bouchard to improve his coverage and gap in the own zone as he learns to become more proactive with his feet. Neither area looks to be a strength for Bouchard moving forward, but I certainly expect him to show better in both those regards than he did in junior. Neutral zone defence, on the other hand, will likely remain a mixed bag at the NHL level. Bouchard performs adequately when he holds a tight gap and keeps the puck carrier in front of him, but both will be difficult to manage against the quicker forwards in the league. Unless there’s drastic development in the pace of Bouchard’s turns and the explosiveness of his edgework, he’ll have his fair share of problems defending against speed on the rush. All in all, there’s definitely cause for concern with Bouchard’s skating and how it might affect the translation of his skills against bigger and faster competition. He simply doesn't have the skating (acceleration, edge work, lateral movement) to be a top pair defender at the NHL level IMO. There's some small chance he can develop those parts of his game and prove me wrong but until/if he does, he'll need to be more sheltered in a less demanding bottom 4, offensive role where his skating and too often lackadaisical defensive play would get him burned often against top competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 16 hours ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said: Sounds like a great guy going forward. Would definitely fit in to any coach plans.... Me like... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, IBatch said: Don’t be like that. He was predicted to go around 6 last year, EDM didn’t even have a jersey ready for him because they had zero belief he’d still be available. If you’d like I could waste some time quoting what ISS, THN, SN, McKenzie and others thought of him but I won’t given it’s obvious your personal opinion of him doesn’t line up with what the experts said at the time. I have to disagree, Bouchard wasn’t ranked that high. Chris Peters (ESPN) has him ranked 9 Cam Robinson (Dobber Prospects) had him at 15 McKeen had him at 8 Hockey Prospect had him at 10 Craig Button (TSN) had him at 9 Cory Pronman (theathletic) had him down at 18 Lepage (NHL) had him at 10 Kimelman and Morreale (NHL) had him at 7 Bouchards biggest knock was his lack of care. He was a known floater in his own zone and often looked disinterested and care free. Oilers biggest need is a PMD who can transition the puck up to McDavid quickly. Bouchard isn’t really that good of a fit honestly. Oilers could have really used a guy like boqvist. But they are bringing in Joel Persson who is also a known Right shot PPQB. So I don’t know if I’d be banking on Bouchard sticking with the oilers this next season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I have to disagree, Bouchard wasn’t ranked that high. Chris Peters (ESPN) has him ranked 9 Cam Robinson (Dobber Prospects) had him at 15 McKeen had him at 8 Hockey Prospect had him at 10 Craig Button (TSN) had him at 9 Cory Pronman (theathletic) had him down at 18 Lepage (NHL) had him at 10 Kimelman and Morreale (NHL) had him at 7 Bouchards biggest knock was his lack of care. He was a known floater in his own zone and often looked disinterested and care free. Oilers biggest need is a PMD who can transition the puck up to McDavid quickly. Bouchard isn’t really that good of a fit honestly. Oilers could have really used a guy like boqvist. But they are bringing in Joel Persson who is also a known Right shot PPQB. So I don’t know if I’d be banking on Bouchard sticking with the oilers this next season. What about the ISS, McKenzie and THN etc...I noticed you only went with guys that had him low ha ha. That’s ok pretty much all those guys were all over the board including Hughes, Dobson and Boqvist. I prefer to go with the scouts themselves and organizations that ask a group of scouts to rank them (THN had him at 6, second best behind Dahlin) and the ISS who’s jobs is to make the rankings based on scouts, rather then media types that use their gut but don’t actually spend the time to evaluate them (pro scouts do). edit: and if you want to talk about draft plus one, we’ll be played a few games and got his first goal, and then proceeded to rip it up in the OHL (obviously he’s too good for that he should have gone to the AHL or Europe and played against men if he could). Defenseman or the year, playoffs too etc. And THN ranks him 13th overall ahead of a lot of guys who are draft plus 3 or less like Valimaki 17, TY Smith 20, Sandin 25, Fox 30, often talked about Fabbro 36, Wilde 57, Foote 58 Ka’ndre Miller 62 and our very own OJ at 66... Theres others too...Foote is a coveted prospect and he’s 58. Our best guy after Hughes is Demko who’s 36. I don’t buy that he isn’t going to make an impact once he’s made the show and had some time to adjust. All he’s done so far is dominate his peer group which includes Boqvist and Dobson (were they the best?....NO).. These lists are made projecting how well their games will translate into the NHL and created and voted on by a series of top pro scouts from ten different teams. I’d trust that over a media type or a group like SN who doesn’t take Hockey nearly as seriously as the big three and often parrot what others say. Why don’t we wait five years and re-evaluate? Hughes was number two BTW, behind Makar...that’s awesome. And last year EP was second behind Dahlin... Edited June 14, 2019 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I have to disagree, Bouchard wasn’t ranked that high. Chris Peters (ESPN) has him ranked 9 Cam Robinson (Dobber Prospects) had him at 15 McKeen had him at 8 Hockey Prospect had him at 10 Craig Button (TSN) had him at 9 Cory Pronman (theathletic) had him down at 18 Lepage (NHL) had him at 10 Kimelman and Morreale (NHL) had him at 7 Bouchards biggest knock was his lack of care. He was a known floater in his own zone and often looked disinterested and care free. Oilers biggest need is a PMD who can transition the puck up to McDavid quickly. Bouchard isn’t really that good of a fit honestly. Oilers could have really used a guy like boqvist. But they are bringing in Joel Persson who is also a known Right shot PPQB. So I don’t know if I’d be banking on Bouchard sticking with the oilers this next season. Watching Bouchard I always felt something was off with the guy, but couldn't quite figure exactly what. Was he too slow; too soft; too low IQ? Disinterested in competing is a good take. We just saw the Blues win the cup and I'm sure every player on that team had a significant aches, pains, and even injuries they were playing with. I don't see Bouchard as a guy that would play with that level of compete. Hell, last night Thompson came out and shot free throws with a ruptured ACL! That's friggin' high compete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Watching Bouchard I always felt something was off with the guy, but couldn't quite figure exactly what. Was he too slow; too soft; too low IQ? Disinterested in competing is a good take. We just saw the Blues win the cup and I'm sure every player on that team had a significant aches, pains, and even injuries they were playing with. I don't see Bouchard as a guy that would play with that level of compete. Hell, last night Thompson came out and shot free throws with a ruptured ACL! That's friggin' high compete. This guys an ox, regularly playing 30 plus minutes without missing games to injury. Not only does he have size he’s strong too, top ten in pull-ups in the combine and he’s not a 5’7 150lb guy who usually fills the top ten... maybe his IQ is so good he doesn’t need to waste energy... and because he plays so many shifts he’s conserving energy. Dobson’s a great skater as we all know, but Bouchard is a better backwards skater in a head it head evaluation last year pre-draft comparison. Also the scouts gave his overall skating a 4 out of five for skating last year, Dobson a 4.5...average NHL speed is considered a 3...which is exactly what Woo was given (in this particular way of evaluating). Maybe he’s smart enough to know when to skate fast and when to stay in position? His skating isn’t as bad as people make it out to be... If he was our prospect we’d be supporting him like crazy. He’s not so he should go f)&k himself ha ha. Hughes is projected to be the better player so Benning did it again...but it doesn’t mean he won’t also turn into a good or even great player in EDM, he certainly has the tools for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) Spent the last 2 weeks (on and off) catching up on this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed and added to the discussion. Here's my take: Keep and use our pick at #10. Do not draft any: 'Enigmatic' Russians 'Undersized' Players (fwd, d, or goal) 'Over-rated' USDT Players Leave all of the above for teams picking 1 through 9 (don't have any choice anyway). If any of them are still there at 10, leave them for teams picking after us. At 10, I like: Broberg Seider Dach I don't care if anyone thinks we could get, say Seider, lower down in the draft and pick up a pittance to take that risk. It is not worth it. I trust Brackett and Benning implicitly and have been wrong on our first pick every year (although I had Jake as my second choice that year). I want them to select their guy at 10 no matter where the madding crowd has him rated. They may play around with the third and later picks but I think they will hang onto our first and second picks. I would also like them to select a RHD with our second round pick. Edited June 14, 2019 by Goal:thecup grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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