Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I have ragged on LE and Gag's as much as the next guy.... I think Erikkson may be good enough to roll with EP ...for half the season anyway ...put Jake, Goldy, Liepsic, Dahlen or Gaudette on that line and they will score...with any of those besides Goldy they will also check like a good 3rd line should. That gives us: Baer / Bo / BB Liepsic / Sutter / Granlund Goldy or Jake / EP / Erikkson Rousell / Beagle / Schaller (when healthy) Gaunce or Goldy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, appleboy said: Gaunce is 24 and paid 750,000. Beagle is 32 and will be paid 3 mil for the next 4 years. If we are truly rebuilding then we need to be developing our own talent. Signing one UFA would have made sense. Signing short term deals would have been wise. What if Gadjovick and MacEwen are ready for 2019. What if Gaudette is ready some time this year? And Gaunce is a W'er conversion, not a C with nowhere near Beagle's abilities. What they're paid while we have $10m+ in cap space doesn't frankly matter. We're developing our own talent, most of which is top 6/top 9 talent, very little of which is likely to be knocking on the door for a 4C role in the next couple years. These are shorter term deals. I'll give you 'mid' term on the 4 year deals, Schaller's is short. And again, none of them are a problem. What if Gajovich and Mac are ready? If they're better than players they'd be replacing, they'll be on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I have ragged on LE and Gag's as much as the next guy.... I think Erikkson may be good enough to roll with EP ...for half the season anyway ...put Jake, Goldy, Liepsic, Dahlen or Gaudette on that line and they will score...with any of those besides Goldy they will also check like a good 3rd line should. That gives us: Baer / Bo / BB Liepsic / Sutter / Granlund Goldy or Jake / EP / Erikkson Rousell / Beagle / Schaller (when healthy) Gaunce or Goldy I'd go: Offensive lines: Leipsic/Goldobin, Horvat, Boeser Baer, Pettersson, Eriksson/Virtanen (sheltered line) Defensive lines: Roussel, Sutter, Virtanen/Eriksson Schaller, Beagle, Granlund Gagner, Leipsic/Goldobin But really the W's will be moving all over the place this year IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, aGENT said: I'd go: Offensive lines: Leipsic/Goldobin, Horvat, Boeser Baer, Pettersson, Eriksson/Virtanen (sheltered line) Defensive lines: Roussel, Sutter, Virtanen/Eriksson Schaller, Beagle, Granlund Gagner, Leipsic/Goldobin But really the W's will be moving all over the place this year IMO. The one thing most of us are doing ....it seems...is putting EP in the middle and leaving Gagner off the starting 12. I'm starting to pull for him now that he is everyone's underdog....maybe he pulls a maturity card out his arse and starts to play D. like he means it...maybe see what the view from the corner's look like when there is a game going on....dang...there I go again ...just when I was feeling sympathy and thinking about his recent interview about the "hard game the newcomer's play" and how he sees himself as a guiding the youth....now he just has to back that up with play that the youth should be "guided" by.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 2 hours ago, appleboy said: Grabner and Goldy are a very good comparison. Part of developing players is being patient and also seeing to it that there is a spot for them to play. Players like Gagner , Rousell and so on could push players like Goldy out. I agree that he will not make it through the waiver wire. The first thing you need in this league is skill. NJD traded a 2nd round pick to bring in Grabner at the TDL. They healthy scratched him in the playoffs. Not every player fits every system. Green knows how he wants to play and some guys might be good players on other teams and not fit in. Green said he's not interested in players who can score but with whom you can't win. He says that in any league if you don't outwork your opponent chances are you are not going to win. He also says he doesn't want to have to hide players - eg imagine an icing in a critical playoff game with guys who can't defend on the ice. Last summer Green told the Portland Tribune that he did not come to Vancouver to lose. He says he wants to make the playoffs and came to win multiple Cups but says there is a process to get there and everyone has to be committed to play the right way. If Goldobin commits to a full 200ft game and works hard there is no reason he won't be on the team. Fwiw Nashville had a similar approach when Laviolette took over. They had Gaustad-Nystrom starting nearly exclusively in the d-zone to allow Forsberg to play in the o-zone. As the team got better their role became redundant. Now Laviolette says he lets the other team decide on the matchups for Forsberg. The Canucks skilled players need some sheltering for now - someone has to kill penalties and take on the other team's scoring lines. Btw Nashville traded a 1st round pick for Gaustad but did also get a 4th in return who turned out to be their goalie of the future Saros. Gaustad got 3.25M x 4 years with a limited NTC to be their C4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: The one thing most of us are doing ....it seems...is putting EP in the middle and leaving Gagner off the starting 12. I'm starting to pull for him now that he is everyone's underdog....maybe he pulls a maturity card out his arse and starts to play D. like he means it...maybe see what the view from the corner's look like when there is a game going on....dang...there I go again ...just when I was feeling sympathy and thinking about his recent interview about the "hard game the newcomer's play" and how he sees himself as a guiding the youth....now he just has to back that up with play that the youth should be "guided" by.... Gagner was brought in as expendable insurance. Pettersson's historic year last season just likely made him expendable sooner. It is what it is. I'd not be shocked to see Gagner start with Pettersson either and see someone else temporarily bumped/injured. They're opposite handedness so they could swap taking draws on their strong sides (not likely to be a strong suit of either, lets be honest). As I said, IMO, the W'ers will be VERY fluid, I see these as the likely fixed pairs: ____, Horvat, Boeser Baer, Pettersson (W or C), ____ Roussel, Sutter, ____ Schaller, Beagle, ____ 13____, 14, ____ Fill in the blanks and rotate as necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, aGENT said: I'd not be shocked to see Gagner start with Pettersson either and see someone else temporarily bumped/injured. They're opposite handedness so they could swap taking draws on their strong sides (not likely to be a strong suit of either, lets be honest). As I said, IMO, the W'ers will be VERY fluid, I see these as the likely fixed pairs: ____, Horvat, Boeser Baer, Pettersson (W or C), ____ Roussel, Sutter, ____ Schaller, Beagle, ____ you have to think Green is going to want an experienced C on EPs line to begin with tho... I think they will want to ease EP into taking face-offs and need someone like Gagner who can win ~50% of them (https://puckbase.com/stats/player-faceoff-splits?player=sam-gagner). Loui-EP-Gagner to start the year is my bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: you have to think Green is going to want an experienced C on EPs line to begin with tho... I think they will want to ease EP into taking face-offs and need someone like Gagner who can win ~50% of them (https://puckbase.com/stats/player-faceoff-splits?player=sam-gagner). Loui-EP-Gagner to start the year is my bet. Like I said, could be we see Gagner there. Fluid. I'm not so sure he'll struggle as much as you seem to be assuming though. Gagner or not, that whole line is going to see HIGHLY sheltered 'Sedin' usage. 70+% ozone starts, PP time, icings against tired defenders etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 1 minute ago, aGENT said: Like I said, could be we see Gagner there. Fluid. I'm not so sure he'll struggle as much as you seem to be assuming though. Gagner or not, that whole line is going to see HIGHLY sheltered 'Sedin' usage. 70+% ozone starts, PP time, icings against tired defenders etc. I think he'll struggle on face offs vs NHL players to begin with. EPs had what, a dozen career games at C in the SHL? He may turn into an excellent face off guy some day but thats going to be challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Just now, Jimmy McGill said: I think he'll struggle on face offs vs NHL players to begin with. EPs had what, a dozen career games at C in the SHL? He may turn into an excellent face off guy some day but thats going to be challenging. Meh...like I said, we'll see how it shakes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: Meh...like I said, we'll see how it shakes out. meh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: meh? Yeah 'meh'. Like I said, maybe Gagner's there, maybe he's not. Maybe we see a trade for Anisimov or similar. Maybe Pettersson does 'ok' at face offs. Maybe, maybe.... I don't really have anything pinned on EP40 being 55% at face offs (if he's even the one taking them) uin a HIGHLY sheltered offensive role and I'm perfectly happy to just wait and see how whatever shakes out, shakes out. And if it's EP40 going 46% in that sheltered usage and having to rely on his wingers a bit to help him out. So be it. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 "Realistically" - guys like Chaput and Megna were in around the 17/18 spots on this team's depth chart - and still wound up getting recalls and needless to say playing more minutes than most people on these boards would have liked to see. Something to keep in mind when getting overly anxious about depth losses. Players like Boucher were claimed on waivers, Archie was re-signed as a UFA (one any other team could have made an offer to), Leipsic was the return on Holm (a UFA), Motte was the return on Vanek (and not waiver eligible), Gagner was a UFA.......none of these assets came at real 'costs' to the franchise, and having them in the depth mix should not be mistaken imo as a 'problem' - imo it more reflects the mentality of a fear of loss - that gets in the way of the larger picture. The fact that they currently have 15 or so forwards that may conceivably be NHL ready doesn't mean they have "too much" depth, or that they are going to lose players to waivers. That assumes that these guys will be considered better options than the players other teams have in their 12/13 spots - they need to find a roster spot for any waiver claim and keep them at the NHL level. Really, this is pretty much a non-problem (particularly with a numbe of waiver ineligible prospects - and a guy like Schaller on I.R.) - a 'problem' we should be hoping Benning creates every year, as it's a sign of decent depth within the organization and a problem you want to have, where there is sufficient competition to earn minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Robb you keep quoting that but you do realize the number is going to drop dramatically this year. And that’s not because our young players or drafting got worse but because many of our players will graduated out of “prospect” status. That’s why those prospect pool rankings are next to meaningless. And that number drops for ALL teams. In fact, just by #1-ranked Buffalo graduating Dahlin and Mittelstadt this year, where would they rank without them? On the other hand, if the Canucks graduate both Pettersson and Gaudette, where would they rank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirotashi Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Baggins said: If he winds up on waivers he's earned it. Any player that hits that point has taken too long to develop. I don't worry about losing guys to waivers or what they become afterwards. You can only wait so long for a player to get it when you have others knocking at the door. that's fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: And that number drops for ALL teams. In fact, just by #1-ranked Buffalo graduating Dahlin and Mittelstadt this year, where would they rank without them? On the other hand, if the Canucks graduate both Pettersson and Gaudette, where would they rank? Juolevi isn’t making the nhl his year?mm. And dahlen also is next in line with some injuries likely hitting us this year. Hopefully Hughes can graduate early this year too. You still think we’re top 5 after that. With a 2014 draft pick leading the way?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 13 hours ago, aGENT said: Yeah that's kind of not the point. But great effort anyway! No it's not a moot point. You can't take a bunch of has beens and never was's and equate them to every single player making or breaking it out of camp. It's simply not terribly realistic. Beagle is arguably a top 5 in the league 4C, not some kid on his last chance or a 39 year old Recchi whom the game had clearly passed him by. One of these things is not like the other. If Beagle comes in and 'Higgins' it, damn right they'd waive/move etc him. The chances of that realistically happening to a guy in the top 5 of his position and a notoriously fit and dedicated athlete are slim to none with slim having joined NASA and on a 2 year mission to Mars. As I said, can't wait to see how Unicorn does at camp! If Beagle was under 27 maybe you have a case, but he's 32 going on 33, who just came off winning the biggest prize in hockey, on a contender no less, got the biggest payday of his career, and gets to play closer to home. What's more likely to happening ...... him replicating his two seasons with Washington or him coasting throughout the reminder of his contract? I mean, I get he's an athlete and a professional, but he's at the tailend of his career and really has nothing to prove. He get's paid more than 90% of "4th line" players in the league, just to play hockey for 8-12 minutes a night. Nonetheless, that wasn't the initial argument. The argument was you think Virtanen will get claimed on waivers, while Goldobin will be left unclaimed. You haven't provide any reasons to validate why so, rather saying Virtanen has shown some glimpse of what he can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 17 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: People that put together organizational rankings have a paranoid personality disorder?! Well, cool story. I didn’t know you were a farmer? Must really Like your straw. Quote I could not care less if it favours the Canucks or not but in a discussion about prospects is seems relevant. In a thread about SV% for last season, would be hard to find anything favorable so not sure why in a thread about prospects, and such discussion, it is somehow not relevant? Why not a thread on top 30 scorers in league - as Vancouver didn't have anyone there would not be a list so who would argue that? When the topic here is prospects, seemingly organizational ranking makes some sense....right? The topic here is prospects???? Heck the reply you first quoted with the rankings also wasn’t about prospects. Maybe it’s not straw you like. Maybe it something’s stronger. Quote Young players in the NHL - I already said you measure that by the Standings as a great measuring stick and, as noted, Vancouver doesn't do well there. We don't have next season's standings yet (though I see plenty of people are sure of what they will be....removes the drama of the season I guess). Do the Standings dudes that put those out also have a paranoid personality disorder? There are plenty of stats/rankings and similar that don't have Vancouver being very high and are discussion ad nausea in their respective threads. I usually remotely get the point you are on about, but sincerely this time I am struggling as you seem to be looking for something here that is already there. Once again, for those not in NHL those rankings are of some relative value and for those in NHL it is called "standings". If you don't like those two measures of in/out of NHL, calling the originators as paranoid with personality disorders....seems a bit harsh and odd doesn't it? You are digging a hole here Robb. The point is clear. You’re just being stubborn and refusing to admit you’re wrong. If standings is how you measure the quality of young players, does that mean we are trouble???? Where did we finish again last year? Yeah that’s what I thought. Standings shows nothing on future promise. Why because you players don’t come into the nhl at thier peak, they progress and get better. Horvat is way better than he was when he first joined the league. Shocking how that works. Add in the fact that young players aren’t the only contributer to a teams success. Does Nashville have the most promising young players because they were 1st in the standing? Nope but I know you already knew that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I didn’t know you were a farmer? Must really Like your straw. The topic here is prospects???? Heck the reply you first quoted with the rankings also wasn’t about prospects. Maybe it’s not straw you like. Maybe it something’s stronger. You are digging a hole here Robb. The point is clear. You’re just being stubborn and refusing to admit you’re wrong. If standings is how you measure the quality of young players, does that mean we are trouble???? Where did we finish again last year? Yeah that’s what I thought. Standings shows nothing on future promise. Why because you players don’t come into the nhl at thier peak, they progress and get better. Horvat is way better than he was when he first joined the league. Shocking how that works. Add in the fact that young players aren’t the only contributer to a teams success. Does Nashville have the most promising young players because they were 1st in the standing? Nope but I know you already knew that Uh, ok, I was wrong to try and have a logical discussion with you. I contend the Canucks propsects are looking great and their NHL ready young guys have a ways to go (looking at indendent rankings and NHL standings to show both). I was wrong to assume you would see those facts and that logic. I was also wrong to assume that if a post didn’t somehow reflect poorly on the Canuck management that you could let it go and not start a ping pong posting match. Where I am right is in my prediction - I predict you will respond and avoid the main topic and, again, try and make it clear your need to show no matter the facts or inpdendent evaluation of the Vancouver Canucks, let alone the actual performance of their NHL younger players this past season or two, that on the whole it justifies your position that “Benning Sucks”. Cheers and thanks for the reminder of how wrong it was of me to go down this path yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Uh, ok, I was wrong to try and have a logical discussion with you. I contend the Canucks propsects are looking great and their NHL ready young guys have a ways to go (looking at indendent rankings and NHL standings to show both). I was wrong to assume you would see those facts and that logic. I was also wrong to assume that if a post didn’t somehow reflect poorly on the Canuck management that you could let it go and not start a ping pong posting match. Where I am right is in my prediction - I predict you will respond and avoid the main topic and, again, try and make it clear your need to show no matter the facts or inpdendent evaluation of the Vancouver Canucks, let alone the actual performance of their NHL younger players this past season or two, that on the whole it justifies your position that “Benning Sucks”. Cheers and thanks for the reminder of how wrong it was of me to go down this path yet again. Paranoid personality disorder. The world isn’t out to get you. Not everything revolves how being pro/anti canucks. Like talking about how a ranking system is flawed for example. The reason you can’t have a logical discussion is your too trigger happy, anything not immediately seen as praise is considered hate and anti canucks. Very political left of you. #walkaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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